Usage and Abusage
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Then, of course, we have the issue of regional spelling and word usage. The Americans claim that they speak/read/write English: yet for them the vowel 'u' seems to have a sharply diminished role: color, neighbor, favor, labor, etc etc. As most spell-checks are set to American-English defaults (unless one fiddles with them on installation) this means that the youth of such countries as Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa is increasingly 'Americanising' their spelling. The use of the word 'Mom' instead of 'Mum' is such an example.
Then there's different meanings of common words - an American asking for a 'rubber' in Boots the Chemist would be given strange looks; as would an Englishman asking for the same thing in Office World.
All very interesting!!
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Happiness is a warm L1011
Then there's different meanings of common words - an American asking for a 'rubber' in Boots the Chemist would be given strange looks; as would an Englishman asking for the same thing in Office World.
All very interesting!!
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Happiness is a warm L1011
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I have to say I find it rather sad that a thread started as a discussion piece has degenerated so quickly into slaggig and insults.
My original post stated a personal view that spelling was important and that there is a difference between correct and incorrect, pretty self-evident, I would have thought. I then asked what you lot thought, I made no attempt to tell people what to do and criticised no-one, particularly not foreigners, AeroB. You are over sensitive, I feel!
Accusing someone of being a "nazi" or a pedant merely for holding an opinion is rather hypocritical under the circumstances, isn't it?
Perhaps the begrudgers would care to re-read the original post and see what was actually said...
My original post stated a personal view that spelling was important and that there is a difference between correct and incorrect, pretty self-evident, I would have thought. I then asked what you lot thought, I made no attempt to tell people what to do and criticised no-one, particularly not foreigners, AeroB. You are over sensitive, I feel!
Accusing someone of being a "nazi" or a pedant merely for holding an opinion is rather hypocritical under the circumstances, isn't it?
Perhaps the begrudgers would care to re-read the original post and see what was actually said...
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Totaly agree with you Waffoo. Those bloodey spelling nazi-troopers realy get up my nose too! Bloodey pedantic pain-in-the-*rse lunatics with nothing better to do than poke sh*t at other peoples minor spelling mistakes. Losers the lot of them. Right? Right.
Now there was a main reason why I wanted to make a post here. What was it again?.....
Oh yeh now I remember!
Waffs its not "apostrophising" its "apostrophiing".
Now there was a main reason why I wanted to make a post here. What was it again?.....
Oh yeh now I remember!
Waffs its not "apostrophising" its "apostrophiing".
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Waffoo ... I really DID read and comprehend your opening post. I had no difficulty with the concept of a discussion of the issues. But, as I read thru all the posts that followed, it became clear that there are a few people who didn't comprehend your post.
Maybe that is part of the problem with the English language itself, especially in written form, in online mediums such as this one. My vote, in my previous post, to close this topic was born of frustration at the way I perceived the discussion to be turning hostile.
Clearly there were others who got the same impression too.
Forget ... glad to see that I got your attention. I think it should be obvious from my previous post that I don't have a problem with those that "care" OR those that don't. We can co-exist so long as there is no attempt to chastise those who "CAN'T", by the purists who "care". That's where I was coming from and it's the point you seem to have missed.
As to your reference to AeroB being oversensitive ... when was that a crime? How is anyone supposed to tell the difference between what is said and what is meant, in a forum like this? In any event, I don't think it would be reasoanble to dismiss the possibility that AeroB might have been confronted by unflattering statements in the past. I don't know him, but I know others from a NESB who have faced such situations.
If, for any reason, someone is unable to express themselves in terms of "the Queen's English", they should not be ridiculed. How many of you would do so in the real world and not expect it to result in a fight?
At the end of a long day, I don't come here to fight. I come here to relax and have a bit of fun ... even to learn what's happening in other parts of the world. But I think I'm as entitled as anyone else, to express my opinion, especially when "discussion" is invited.
It's been interesting to see how all the other posts have come about thru each author's interpretation of the written word.
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Once a king, always a king.
But once a nite's enough!
Maybe that is part of the problem with the English language itself, especially in written form, in online mediums such as this one. My vote, in my previous post, to close this topic was born of frustration at the way I perceived the discussion to be turning hostile.
Clearly there were others who got the same impression too.
Forget ... glad to see that I got your attention. I think it should be obvious from my previous post that I don't have a problem with those that "care" OR those that don't. We can co-exist so long as there is no attempt to chastise those who "CAN'T", by the purists who "care". That's where I was coming from and it's the point you seem to have missed.
As to your reference to AeroB being oversensitive ... when was that a crime? How is anyone supposed to tell the difference between what is said and what is meant, in a forum like this? In any event, I don't think it would be reasoanble to dismiss the possibility that AeroB might have been confronted by unflattering statements in the past. I don't know him, but I know others from a NESB who have faced such situations.
If, for any reason, someone is unable to express themselves in terms of "the Queen's English", they should not be ridiculed. How many of you would do so in the real world and not expect it to result in a fight?
At the end of a long day, I don't come here to fight. I come here to relax and have a bit of fun ... even to learn what's happening in other parts of the world. But I think I'm as entitled as anyone else, to express my opinion, especially when "discussion" is invited.
It's been interesting to see how all the other posts have come about thru each author's interpretation of the written word.
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Once a king, always a king.
But once a nite's enough!
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hello all you butterfingered aviating typists out there...as SLF I trust that those jabbing digits all become super-accurate when applied to the knobs and buttons of your trade?
Actually, it is odd that with all the emphasis on computers and IT in schools, quite right too,none of the poor little sods seem to get any proper training in keyboard skills,dooming another generation to a life of two-fingered hunt 'n peck like
yours truly
Actually, it is odd that with all the emphasis on computers and IT in schools, quite right too,none of the poor little sods seem to get any proper training in keyboard skills,dooming another generation to a life of two-fingered hunt 'n peck like
yours truly
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Perhaps we can cut out the middleman and supply the next two week's posts on this subject.
This from an aircraft homebuilding mail list server to show it's the same the whole (electronic) world over:
Q: How many list subscribers does it take to change a spark plug?
A: 1,445
* 1 to change the spark plug and to post to the mail list that the spark plug has been changed;
* 14 to share similar experiences of changing spark plugs and how the spark plug could have been changed differently;
* 7 to caution about the dangers of changing spark plugs;
* 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing spark plugs;
* 53 to flame the spell checkers;
* 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames;
* 6 to argue over whether it's "sparkplug" or "spark plug" and another
6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive;
* 156 to write to the list administrator about the spark plug
discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list;
* 109 to post that this list is not about spark plugs and to please take this email exchange to sparkplug-l;
* 203 to demand that cross posting to grammar-l, spelling-l and sparkplug-l about changing spark plugs be stopped;
* 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use spark plugs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this mail list;
* 306 to debate which method of changing spark plugs is superior, where to buy the best spark plugs, what brand of spark plugs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty;
* 41 to point out that not all of us use spark plugs, representing all diesel owners;
* 58 to question why diesel owners are on a non-diesel mailing list;
* 3 to comment about conversions to electric;
* 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different spark plugs;
* 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly and to post the corrected URLs;
* 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes spark plugs relevant to this list;
* 33 to link all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers and then add "Me too";
* 12 to post to the list that they are un-subscribing because they cannot handle the spark plug controversy;
* 19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three";
* 4 to suggest that posters request the spark plug FAQ;
* 44 to ask what is "FAQ";
* 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago dealing with oil filters?"
* 143 to ask "what's an oil filter?
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Regards from the Towers
[email protected]
This from an aircraft homebuilding mail list server to show it's the same the whole (electronic) world over:
Q: How many list subscribers does it take to change a spark plug?
A: 1,445
* 1 to change the spark plug and to post to the mail list that the spark plug has been changed;
* 14 to share similar experiences of changing spark plugs and how the spark plug could have been changed differently;
* 7 to caution about the dangers of changing spark plugs;
* 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing spark plugs;
* 53 to flame the spell checkers;
* 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames;
* 6 to argue over whether it's "sparkplug" or "spark plug" and another
6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive;
* 156 to write to the list administrator about the spark plug
discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list;
* 109 to post that this list is not about spark plugs and to please take this email exchange to sparkplug-l;
* 203 to demand that cross posting to grammar-l, spelling-l and sparkplug-l about changing spark plugs be stopped;
* 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use spark plugs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this mail list;
* 306 to debate which method of changing spark plugs is superior, where to buy the best spark plugs, what brand of spark plugs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty;
* 41 to point out that not all of us use spark plugs, representing all diesel owners;
* 58 to question why diesel owners are on a non-diesel mailing list;
* 3 to comment about conversions to electric;
* 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different spark plugs;
* 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly and to post the corrected URLs;
* 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes spark plugs relevant to this list;
* 33 to link all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers and then add "Me too";
* 12 to post to the list that they are un-subscribing because they cannot handle the spark plug controversy;
* 19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three";
* 4 to suggest that posters request the spark plug FAQ;
* 44 to ask what is "FAQ";
* 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago dealing with oil filters?"
* 143 to ask "what's an oil filter?
------------------
Regards from the Towers
[email protected]
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There are usually also one or two posts to tell you that you're all going to burn in hell for using spark plugs in that manner.
And no thread is complete until someone is called a "Nazi" or compared to Adolf Hitler. I believe that happened back on the first page of this one.
And no thread is complete until someone is called a "Nazi" or compared to Adolf Hitler. I believe that happened back on the first page of this one.
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(Applies final polish to jackboots and adjusts der Sam Braun(e) belt over close-fitting black tunic.)
Capt W, you’ve got my vote 110%… It seems to me that many of our ‘English as a second/third language’ colleagues on Pprune have a far better grasp of the basics of English than many native English speakers. Some of course, do not - and anyone from the ranks of the ‘spelling police’ who heaps scorn on someone who is obviously not a native English speaker is beneath contempt.
It has become almost a given that people don’t check their spelling or grammar before posting something on the Internet, perhaps because they are online and mindful of the clock ticking. However, I think the Guvnor’s right - the overwhelming proportion of the blame for poor spelling and grammar should be placed squarely at the door of our education system over the last twenty years. In too many cases, people simply aren’t aware they’re wrong in their use of English because they were never taught correct usage in the first place. For that reason, I fear that Capt Waffoo’s deliberately incorrect use of the apostrophe in the fourth last and last paragraphs of his first post were probably wasted on many. (Think you might have genuinely blown it with the capital after the semi colon , though, Cap’n.)
StopStart’s very well balanced post should be added to the top of the ‘post in’ page:- reed… sorry – READ what yew… YOU right… sorry – WRITE before pressing the ‘send’ button, people.
Many of yew .. sorry, YOU are on this BB looking for a job (or a better job). If two CVs with similar experience levels come in to an employer’s desk, one with correct spelling and grammatically correct and the other not so, who do you believe will get the job? The same applies if you want to make a point on Pprune – surely someone who looks like he’s taken some care with his post gains more credibility from his readers than one who has not. We also pride ourselves as aviation professionals, where one mistake can have dire and sometimes rather final consequences, on double checking everything. After reading some (many?) of the posts on Pprune, I sometimes wonder what the poor old self loading freight must think as they entrust their lives to us. Gravity victim’s post is well worth reading on that point.
I have a few pet hates. It’s /its probably tops the list. (The apostrophe usually denotes the possessive case, chaps and chapesses. I know it’s crazy, but “its” is the exception to this rule. “It’s” is a contraction of “it is”, whereas “its”, without the apostrophe, is the possessive of “it”, (unlike every other instance where the possessive is used in the English language). Their/there/they’re, your/you’re and the dreaded unnecessary (or just as aggravating - missing) apostrophe follow. And addinfurnightem, just in case you weren’t joking and looking for a bite from some spelling police pedant like me, the apostrophe after the ‘s’ is used for words ending in an ‘s’, eg, “Jean Simmons’ husband was a famous actor as well.” It doesn’t show plural, eg, “The Simmons are coming for diner tonight.”
To paraphrase W.S. Churchill, (after he was criticised by some *** pedant for ending a sentence with a preposition), these and other common errors in English expression are mistakes up with which I will not put!
Sieg Heil!
I’m standing by to have pointed out to me the corrections to the half dozen mistakes I’m sure to have made in this post.
Capt W, you’ve got my vote 110%… It seems to me that many of our ‘English as a second/third language’ colleagues on Pprune have a far better grasp of the basics of English than many native English speakers. Some of course, do not - and anyone from the ranks of the ‘spelling police’ who heaps scorn on someone who is obviously not a native English speaker is beneath contempt.
It has become almost a given that people don’t check their spelling or grammar before posting something on the Internet, perhaps because they are online and mindful of the clock ticking. However, I think the Guvnor’s right - the overwhelming proportion of the blame for poor spelling and grammar should be placed squarely at the door of our education system over the last twenty years. In too many cases, people simply aren’t aware they’re wrong in their use of English because they were never taught correct usage in the first place. For that reason, I fear that Capt Waffoo’s deliberately incorrect use of the apostrophe in the fourth last and last paragraphs of his first post were probably wasted on many. (Think you might have genuinely blown it with the capital after the semi colon , though, Cap’n.)
StopStart’s very well balanced post should be added to the top of the ‘post in’ page:- reed… sorry – READ what yew… YOU right… sorry – WRITE before pressing the ‘send’ button, people.
Many of yew .. sorry, YOU are on this BB looking for a job (or a better job). If two CVs with similar experience levels come in to an employer’s desk, one with correct spelling and grammatically correct and the other not so, who do you believe will get the job? The same applies if you want to make a point on Pprune – surely someone who looks like he’s taken some care with his post gains more credibility from his readers than one who has not. We also pride ourselves as aviation professionals, where one mistake can have dire and sometimes rather final consequences, on double checking everything. After reading some (many?) of the posts on Pprune, I sometimes wonder what the poor old self loading freight must think as they entrust their lives to us. Gravity victim’s post is well worth reading on that point.
I have a few pet hates. It’s /its probably tops the list. (The apostrophe usually denotes the possessive case, chaps and chapesses. I know it’s crazy, but “its” is the exception to this rule. “It’s” is a contraction of “it is”, whereas “its”, without the apostrophe, is the possessive of “it”, (unlike every other instance where the possessive is used in the English language). Their/there/they’re, your/you’re and the dreaded unnecessary (or just as aggravating - missing) apostrophe follow. And addinfurnightem, just in case you weren’t joking and looking for a bite from some spelling police pedant like me, the apostrophe after the ‘s’ is used for words ending in an ‘s’, eg, “Jean Simmons’ husband was a famous actor as well.” It doesn’t show plural, eg, “The Simmons are coming for diner tonight.”
To paraphrase W.S. Churchill, (after he was criticised by some *** pedant for ending a sentence with a preposition), these and other common errors in English expression are mistakes up with which I will not put!
Sieg Heil!
I’m standing by to have pointed out to me the corrections to the half dozen mistakes I’m sure to have made in this post.
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Arrrgh! I found two mistakes myself after posting the above! OK, it should read "dinner", not "diner", and there shouldn't have been a space before the comma after semi colon. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
I'm waiting for someone to point out the others.
I'm waiting for someone to point out the others.
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1. Don't abbrev.
2. Check to see if you any words out.
3. Be carefully to use adjectives and adverbs correct.
4. About sentence fragments.
5. When dangling, don't use participles.
6. Don't use no double negatives.
7. Each pronoun agrees with their antecedent.
8. Just between you and I, case is important.
9. Join clauses good, like a conjunction should.
10. Don't use commas, that aren't necessary.
11. Its important to use apostrophe's right.
12. It's better not to unnecessarily split an infinitive.
13. Never leave a transitive verb just lay there without an object.
14. Only Proper Nouns should be capitalized. also a sentence should begin with a capital and end with a full stop
15. Use hyphens in compound-words, not just in any two-word phrase.
16. In letters compositions reports and things like that we use commas to keep a string of items apart.
17. Watch out for irregular verbs which have creeped into our language, irregardless of egregious examples that have been default-pasted into the dictionary.
18. Verbs has to agree with their subjects.
19. Avoid unnecessary redundancy.
20. A writer mustn't shift your point of view.
21. Don't write a run-on sentence you've got to punctuate it.
22. A preposition isn't a good thing to end a sentence with.
23. Avoid cliches like the plague.
2. Check to see if you any words out.
3. Be carefully to use adjectives and adverbs correct.
4. About sentence fragments.
5. When dangling, don't use participles.
6. Don't use no double negatives.
7. Each pronoun agrees with their antecedent.
8. Just between you and I, case is important.
9. Join clauses good, like a conjunction should.
10. Don't use commas, that aren't necessary.
11. Its important to use apostrophe's right.
12. It's better not to unnecessarily split an infinitive.
13. Never leave a transitive verb just lay there without an object.
14. Only Proper Nouns should be capitalized. also a sentence should begin with a capital and end with a full stop
15. Use hyphens in compound-words, not just in any two-word phrase.
16. In letters compositions reports and things like that we use commas to keep a string of items apart.
17. Watch out for irregular verbs which have creeped into our language, irregardless of egregious examples that have been default-pasted into the dictionary.
18. Verbs has to agree with their subjects.
19. Avoid unnecessary redundancy.
20. A writer mustn't shift your point of view.
21. Don't write a run-on sentence you've got to punctuate it.
22. A preposition isn't a good thing to end a sentence with.
23. Avoid cliches like the plague.