Odd Manoeuvre
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Odd Manoeuvre
Following success of my first posting here goes another.
At approx 10.55 local on Sunday (22nd) a DHL inbound to Luton made a very strange and unusual approach. Was this simply because traffic conditions at the time were such that he/she could?? Most aircraft are usually on a pretty straight course sometimes just turning finals from my view at my house. Lived here for 15 years and never seen such a manoeuvre. All the best IL
At approx 10.55 local on Sunday (22nd) a DHL inbound to Luton made a very strange and unusual approach. Was this simply because traffic conditions at the time were such that he/she could?? Most aircraft are usually on a pretty straight course sometimes just turning finals from my view at my house. Lived here for 15 years and never seen such a manoeuvre. All the best IL
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Shame your second posting failed! Do you think the pilots were behaving bizarrely? Should 'the people be told'? Do you think they were under radar control and doing what ATC told them> Should ATC be in the dock?
Swift out of the blocks on that one eh Rainboe! Outrage and overreaction set to 11.
The question didn't accuse anybody of anything. Might not have contained enough detail to be commented on but you really need to take a a few relaxing deep breaths sometimes matey - you'll have a stroke one of these days.
The question didn't accuse anybody of anything. Might not have contained enough detail to be commented on but you really need to take a a few relaxing deep breaths sometimes matey - you'll have a stroke one of these days.
Last edited by Load Toad; 24th Feb 2009 at 00:22.
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Ifield Lad, the suspense is killing. Define 'odd manoeuvre'. What is a 'strange and unusual approach'? Did they come down the approach sideways? Loop on finals? This is the Spotters section of a pilots forum. The massed ranks of Pruners want to know what you are talking about! Don't leave it there please!
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I suspect the aircraft in question, during a visual approach, turned a rather short final...which, in my experience, few (knobs and dials) pilots have a rather hard time understanding.
I await to be corrected.
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No many of the replies have actually helped the originator.
Ifield Lad - we don't know where you are relative to Luton, where the manouevre occurred or what form it took. If you provide more information someone might be able to (sensibly) help. For a variety of reasons, aircraft sometimes carry out what might be called "non-standard" procedures. For example, a runway could become temporarily blocked necessitating a circle to be made close in to the airfield for delaying action. It's because we are all used to seeing aircraft fly "regular" patterns that something other than that attracts our attention, but it's not always something to raise concern.
HTH
Ifield Lad - we don't know where you are relative to Luton, where the manouevre occurred or what form it took. If you provide more information someone might be able to (sensibly) help. For a variety of reasons, aircraft sometimes carry out what might be called "non-standard" procedures. For example, a runway could become temporarily blocked necessitating a circle to be made close in to the airfield for delaying action. It's because we are all used to seeing aircraft fly "regular" patterns that something other than that attracts our attention, but it's not always something to raise concern.
HTH
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Odd Manoeuvre
Sorry to everybody for not being clear most especially to you Rainbow.
As I mentioned in my first ever post on another subject I live approx 8 miles from LTN 26. As I mentioned in this post usually most aircraft are pretty straight on finals. This is only in my non professional experience viewing aircraft from my house over the last 15 years. I was not suggesting for one moment that there was any danger/nearly crashing into the school next to the hospital opposite the shopping centre by the packed football stadium!! It is obviously difficult for me to give exact headings/heights but it went approx NE over me before commencing a contiuous turn to become straight (established??) on finals probably approx 5-6 miles before 26. To reiterate it may well be absolutely nothing unusual to all the great & good people up front and indeed as mentioned he/she was instructed to do so for whatever reason. But it was unusual in my experience at my location for this airport. I think I now need to say I'll get my coat!! Cheers IL
As I mentioned in my first ever post on another subject I live approx 8 miles from LTN 26. As I mentioned in this post usually most aircraft are pretty straight on finals. This is only in my non professional experience viewing aircraft from my house over the last 15 years. I was not suggesting for one moment that there was any danger/nearly crashing into the school next to the hospital opposite the shopping centre by the packed football stadium!! It is obviously difficult for me to give exact headings/heights but it went approx NE over me before commencing a contiuous turn to become straight (established??) on finals probably approx 5-6 miles before 26. To reiterate it may well be absolutely nothing unusual to all the great & good people up front and indeed as mentioned he/she was instructed to do so for whatever reason. But it was unusual in my experience at my location for this airport. I think I now need to say I'll get my coat!! Cheers IL
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Oh my God!!! Rainboe 1,000 apologies. As I speak I am on my knees facing each and everyway begging forgiveness from everybody. Seriously though I am sorry. I don't think I'll ever post again. The success of my first post went straight to my head. The failure of my second (in some eyes) and most importantly the mispelling of a most revered ppruner - well that's it from me good night!! IL
Don't grovel to Rainboe it will only encourage his bad behaviour!It sounds as though your aircraft did an orbit for some reason.I saw an Iberia 320 do one at Palma once at about three miles from the end of the runway as they had overcooked the approach .
How did you know
.
Is that a fact with first hand evidence or just a guess.
Lots of things look odd to many people, especially things about which they may have little or no factual knowledge. It does not mean something is wrong or dangerous or anything other than a normal situation.
Leave the professionals to do the flying, you stick to taking some fine pictures.
they had overcooked the approach
Is that a fact with first hand evidence or just a guess.
Lots of things look odd to many people, especially things about which they may have little or no factual knowledge. It does not mean something is wrong or dangerous or anything other than a normal situation.
Leave the professionals to do the flying, you stick to taking some fine pictures.
I was sat in the front seat of a 320 at the time whilst at the hold for 24R.I think that fully qualifies me to pass judgment unless you would like to see my licence number and logbook.
I saw an Iberia 320
I was sat (!) in the front seat of a 320
Again
as they had overcooked the approach
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Perhaps the dear lady is still in the tower from years ago, who asked a Monarch Captain if she could turn him on [to final] at 5 miles. His reply was 'Well, Madam, I don't think we have had the pleasure of meeting, but you can certainly try!!!!'
The 320 in question had a tcas height readout that showed at 3nm he was at 2000ft.He commenced a descending right hand orbit down to 1000ft and then continued the approach to land.
To me being at 2000ft at 3nm on an ILS equipped runway with a 3 degree glideslope and 3 degree papi is "overcooked".
The cockpit indications would be a full fly down on the glideslope and four whites on the papis.If you do not appreciate this then it is perhaps time for you checklist charlie to provide the readers here with your credentials
To me being at 2000ft at 3nm on an ILS equipped runway with a 3 degree glideslope and 3 degree papi is "overcooked".
The cockpit indications would be a full fly down on the glideslope and four whites on the papis.If you do not appreciate this then it is perhaps time for you checklist charlie to provide the readers here with your credentials
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in 20 years living at the 26 end of Luton, I have seen a few late on to finals myself.
nothing worrying or anything like that but I do remember back in the early 80's a comet 4 turning onto finals at 2 miles and then once aligned up with 26, climbing !
Its like the ILS system picked up the center line and then climbed to get the right glide scope angle.
Still impressive.
These days I see a few sleazy jets turning onto finals at 2 miles so its not that unusual any more.
nothing worrying or anything like that but I do remember back in the early 80's a comet 4 turning onto finals at 2 miles and then once aligned up with 26, climbing !
Its like the ILS system picked up the center line and then climbed to get the right glide scope angle.
Still impressive.
These days I see a few sleazy jets turning onto finals at 2 miles so its not that unusual any more.
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Going through the final approach at 8 miles before turning in to establish at 5 or 6 miles certainly isn't anything to be concerned about. Might have been ATC keeping the a/c on a tight base due to another one outside him in the circuit, then turning it slightly too late to intercept the ILS without going through. Or ATC might have intentionally taken it through to add another couple of track miles, to allow a departure or runway inspection an extra minute ahead of the inbound. Or the a/c might have been on a visual approach and taking a wide turn to lose some height. Many airports are restricted as to how short a final a/c can turn, to save upsetting local residents with noise etc. Each airline has its own procedures as to how late the a/c must be 'stabilised' (i.e. at the correct speed, flaps and gear down, on final approach etc) but usually it's between 500' and 1000' above the ground. This equates to about 1.5 to 3 miles from touchdown, so you can see that even what looks like a very late turn onto final can comply with the conditions for a safe, stabilised approach.
(When we in ATC are vectoring a/c onto the ILS, we always try to get the a/c established in level flight before it intercepts the glideslope to start descending. There is a minimum altitude we're allowed to come down to; this varies for each airport and each runway due to terrain etc, but means we usually can't vector them in any tighter than 5 or 6 miles from touchdown and still establish them below the glidepath. That means the bulk of the traffic these days streams into airports on boringly long finals, and the occasional visual approach can look different to anyone on the ground).
(When we in ATC are vectoring a/c onto the ILS, we always try to get the a/c established in level flight before it intercepts the glideslope to start descending. There is a minimum altitude we're allowed to come down to; this varies for each airport and each runway due to terrain etc, but means we usually can't vector them in any tighter than 5 or 6 miles from touchdown and still establish them below the glidepath. That means the bulk of the traffic these days streams into airports on boringly long finals, and the occasional visual approach can look different to anyone on the ground).
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Rainboe.....Having read your response on here and the manner of your posts on most other threads I have come to the conclusion that you are in need of a good slap old boy !!
Why do you feel the need to talk down to people all the bloody time, your sarcasm is second to none, I can only imagine the state of your nose if you are like outside of the forum, saying that though im guessing that not having the forum to hide behind you are a different character!!
In this post you jump in feet first at Ifield Lad , why couldnt you have just asked him for more info rather than insinuating that he way looking to aportion blame, its twits (would liked to have used another vowel where that i is) like you that stop people from making posts just incase its not worded right or god forbid its something you think they should already know or shouldn't ask.
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Why do you feel the need to talk down to people all the bloody time, your sarcasm is second to none, I can only imagine the state of your nose if you are like outside of the forum, saying that though im guessing that not having the forum to hide behind you are a different character!!
In this post you jump in feet first at Ifield Lad , why couldnt you have just asked him for more info rather than insinuating that he way looking to aportion blame, its twits (would liked to have used another vowel where that i is) like you that stop people from making posts just incase its not worded right or god forbid its something you think they should already know or shouldn't ask.
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