Odd Manoeuvre

[Rainboe]

If you are posting for hundreds to read, it is your responsibility to not waste their time, and phrase your question or comment sensibly and clearly (and with excellent grammar- it is a courtesy for your readers!). The first post was shrouded in mystery- it shouldn't be. This is Spotters- information required was totally left out. He won't do it again (I hope)! As an example, look at Questions 'how high do you fly?'

I think you need to get out more young man.

[Ifield Lad]

As the originator, I agree (in hindsight) with Rainboe that I should have put all the information in. In my naivety I guess I was hoping someone involved with the approach of the aircraft might and I stress the word might have mentioned why the aircraft was positioned as it was. I also appreciate that there was no real need for me to know other than being a curious spotter. Perhaps Rainboe was a tad terse in his response but perhaps he gets a little tired of posters like me not giving the full picture. Sadly I am too old to be upset but I do appreciate the support shown to a probationer ppruner. All the best IL.

[RoyHudd]

Be nice, Rainboe. This is Spotter's Corner after all. When I was a spotter, I reckon I didn't understand much either.

Incidentally, approaching Luton on my very first Line Training trip (clear night, SD3-30, BRU-LTN), the skipper started his turn onto a 4 mile final towards a well-lit dual carriageway in preference to the landing runway, 08 I recall). He was an ex-Lightning jock, and no slouch, but he needed to subsequently perform an interesting and unusual S-turn manoeuvre to correct, which rather surprised me. As did his lack of evident concern when first I suggested we were lining up on the wrong target! (I now understand his apparent relaxed reaction)

Apologies for the digression, but I wanted to write about this somewhere. Matey has since retired, and I spend most of my working hours pushing FCU and MCDU buttons instead of grappling with unruly Sheds.

[Rainboe]

Ifield lad, pointtaken, and you have redeemed yourself! I have a very sensitive hooter. I pick up in the wind posters who are convinced some professional crew have 'done them wrong' in some way, and the poster comes here trying to get evidence that they have been 'wronged', and there is an attempt to try and land some aviation people in it. This often comes with making a positve ID on a particular flight. I find this sort of thing very objectionable, and I will be there! I thought I saw something like this, but i was mistaken (not often, but it has been known, infrequently).

So post away merrily.

PS But really, who wants to be known after 'Ifield'? It's like being known as 'Peckham Boy'! Or 'Penge Plonker'!

[diddy1234]

I was wondering if visual land marks are used to start turns (even if flying by IFR) ?
Take for example the barkway approach into Luton's 26 runway.

This involves a large S manoeuvre to come into Luton (final right hand turn starts above Baldock / Letchworth and finishes at the outskirts of Stevenage).

The reason why I ask (and maybe its a stupid question anyway so I appologise) is that there are no distance markers or VOR beacons in this area so how do pilots know when to commence a turn ?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

diddy... It's all done by radar control at busy airfields. The controllers dealing with Luton and Stansted are located in the ATC Centre at Swanwick on the south coast. From the time an aircraft enters UK airspace bound for Luton it will be under radar control. Controllers will issue heading, speed and altitude instructions to the pilots to eventually position them onto final approach for their destination airfield. Major runways are equipped with ILS (Instrument Landing System as mentioned earlier), which is a radio aid providing azimuth and altitude information to equipment on the aircraft permitting the pilot (or autopilot) to safely find the runway in just about all weather conditions. The actual point at which the radar controller instructs the pilot to turn on to final approach depends on several factors, eg other traffic, altitude of the aircraft, etc., so no two aircraft will necessarily turn at the same point.

When the weather is fine, traffic permits and the pilot can see the airfield he may carry out a "Visual Approach" without using radio aids.

Small aircraft may well use visual reporting points in addition to radio aids to assist navigation.

HTH

[diddy1234]

Heathrow Director, thanks for the reply.
I kind of hoped my question was stupid and your answer does explain why no two aircraft turn at the same point.

[Ifield Lad]

Thank you Rainboe. The name is simply because (beleive it or not) Ifield has many wonderful memories for me. Not least the proximity to Gatwick and many happy hours spotting at the end of 26. Oh and I met the wife there so perhaps not so happy!! IL

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Oh and I met the wife there so perhaps not so happy!! >>

Oh, don't say that. My wife and I were both spotters long before we met via the ATC/WJAC. We celebrate 45 years together very soon and it's been totally magic..

[diddy1234]

Heathrow Director, Don't you both have arguments to which is the best aircraft ?