The Future of the Control Tower Building at Heathrow
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The Future of the Control Tower Building at Heathrow
Does anybody know what the long term future of the Control Tower Building at Heathrow is? When I was there this afternoon standing on the roof of Terminal 3's Car Park doing a little aircraft observing - as one does - it it did cross my mind as looked on past the old control tower towards the landing/departing a/c on RWY 27L and R.
My afternoon of viewing at Heathrow was not without some additional excitement however, not from witnessing some interesting or rare a/c at the airport but with an encounter from the Metropolitan Police Service, of which I was approached by 2 PSCO's of the Met Police and they proceeded to question the reason for my presence on top of the carpark. I do recall PCSO 'Jobsworth' initially telling me that I needed to leave the carpark and airport immediately with due consideration to the threat of terrorism, of which I replied 'Do I look like a terrorist?' After ascertaining my aviation enthusiasts motivations for standing atop of Terminal 3's carpark, I was then subject to a Police Check via CB radio and issued with a security report slip with all my personal details on. My gripe is- is this all really necessary when I am pretty sure THEY knew I was not a terrorist threat? Hence I really do hope there will be a replacement Spectators Gallery (apart from the one at ground level up from the northerly runway) one day similar to the one on top of the Queens Building that provided an excellent observation facility for years for innocent aviation enthusiasts like myself. With this, I do hope one can observe the airport movements at Heathrow- at elevation- without any concern in the backs of ones mind relating to our unwanted presence in the area.
My afternoon of viewing at Heathrow was not without some additional excitement however, not from witnessing some interesting or rare a/c at the airport but with an encounter from the Metropolitan Police Service, of which I was approached by 2 PSCO's of the Met Police and they proceeded to question the reason for my presence on top of the carpark. I do recall PCSO 'Jobsworth' initially telling me that I needed to leave the carpark and airport immediately with due consideration to the threat of terrorism, of which I replied 'Do I look like a terrorist?' After ascertaining my aviation enthusiasts motivations for standing atop of Terminal 3's carpark, I was then subject to a Police Check via CB radio and issued with a security report slip with all my personal details on. My gripe is- is this all really necessary when I am pretty sure THEY knew I was not a terrorist threat? Hence I really do hope there will be a replacement Spectators Gallery (apart from the one at ground level up from the northerly runway) one day similar to the one on top of the Queens Building that provided an excellent observation facility for years for innocent aviation enthusiasts like myself. With this, I do hope one can observe the airport movements at Heathrow- at elevation- without any concern in the backs of ones mind relating to our unwanted presence in the area.
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The police do NOT use "CB radio" and they DON'T know you're not a terrorist threat. You should not be spotting on the top of the car park - there are plenty of signs warning against this so please desist from getting spotters a bad name. The sort of police check you had is quite common. Just try spotting from public roads around Farnborough and you'll soon find out. My wife and I got chatting to the PC who questioned us and he explained that he has targets to meet and it's easier for him to achieve this by questioning half a dozen spotters at Eelmoor rather than chasing yobs at the local shopping mall. I believe the Farnborough Aviation Group has some arrangement with local police so that one can obtain an identification badge to prove one's bona fides.
You must appreciate that Heathrow is a very congested place and any ideas of a spotters enclosure is very low on the list of priorities - and rightly so as aviation is no big deal nowadays and there are plenty of other calls for the use of available space. I visited the roof gardens first in 1958 and many, many times subsequently; used to take my kids up when I worked there. Over the years the decline in roof gardens visitors was obvious to see; it was sometimes possible to walk from one end to the other and see just a handful of elderly spotters - no crowds like the old days when you couldn't find a spare seat.
I do not know the fate of the old control tower building but sincerely hope it is not destroyed. It was the very best place on earth to work and I've had more fun in that building without taking my trousers off than anywhere else.
You must appreciate that Heathrow is a very congested place and any ideas of a spotters enclosure is very low on the list of priorities - and rightly so as aviation is no big deal nowadays and there are plenty of other calls for the use of available space. I visited the roof gardens first in 1958 and many, many times subsequently; used to take my kids up when I worked there. Over the years the decline in roof gardens visitors was obvious to see; it was sometimes possible to walk from one end to the other and see just a handful of elderly spotters - no crowds like the old days when you couldn't find a spare seat.
I do not know the fate of the old control tower building but sincerely hope it is not destroyed. It was the very best place on earth to work and I've had more fun in that building without taking my trousers off than anywhere else.
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I am surprised that it is not a listed building.
It certainly should be. It is a very iconic structure and, like the Post Office Tower, a classic piece of industrial architecture.
Can we maybe get HRH Prince Charles on the case?
It certainly should be. It is a very iconic structure and, like the Post Office Tower, a classic piece of industrial architecture.
Can we maybe get HRH Prince Charles on the case?
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It is perfectly possible to spot from Car Park 2 and 3, I have shot numerous photos recently but what you must not do is LOITER. It's cat and mouse now, as I think some of the NCP punters know me but they seem to have no issue with a man nipping up, shooting a piccy, doing a once around and then departing. The pretend plods have 
all better to do with their time and having a spotter to pick on will really make their sad little day.
It's an easy box tick, I was once questioned by two gun toting Police who knew the score but once someone had reported seeing me, they quite rightly had to investigate. (not that anyone requested armed response, I believe they were the nearest Police, and they were really nice and rather reluctantly asked me to leave just as the Air India B747-400 taxied )
Given that Heathrow has way too many travelling visitors in the Central Area as it is, they cannot afford to attract the casual visitor alas so around and about the perimeter it is.
I have to say the Heathrow Director's analysis of the amount of people on the roof gardens disagrees with mine. It was always pretty busy when I was there, though being the weekend may explain that.
Are you seriously suggesting this is of any use when one is stopped under the Prevention of Terrorism Act which I have been. If it is, it certainly SHOULDN'T BE!
all better to do with their time and having a spotter to pick on will really make their sad little day. It's an easy box tick, I was once questioned by two gun toting Police who knew the score but once someone had reported seeing me, they quite rightly had to investigate. (not that anyone requested armed response, I believe they were the nearest Police, and they were really nice and rather reluctantly asked me to leave just as the Air India B747-400 taxied )
Given that Heathrow has way too many travelling visitors in the Central Area as it is, they cannot afford to attract the casual visitor alas so around and about the perimeter it is.
I have to say the Heathrow Director's analysis of the amount of people on the roof gardens disagrees with mine. It was always pretty busy when I was there, though being the weekend may explain that.
I believe the Farnborough Aviation Group has some arrangement with local police so that one can obtain an identification badge to prove one's bona fides.
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Skipness 1E.. Simply applying for and then wearing a badge, without any vetting, means nothing but, for some reason, the Police at Farnborough are very intimately involved and seem to be happy. In fact I believe that they are negotiating for permission for spotters to regain access to a now prohibited area.
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I think my point is that most of this exercise is what is called on other threads "security theatre". One would be keen to see who if anyone was ever turned down for a badge and whyever not. Perhaps they ticked the box saying they had been members of a prohibited organisation....
Being SEEN to be doing something is all the rage, I don't doubt the intentions of the Police ( not the PCSOs who in my experience are just really just laughable in all respects ).
As to the Tower, it is part of our heritage and history so I am in NO doubt it will be demolished.
Being SEEN to be doing something is all the rage, I don't doubt the intentions of the Police ( not the PCSOs who in my experience are just really just laughable in all respects ).
As to the Tower, it is part of our heritage and history so I am in NO doubt it will be demolished.
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The Gun totting police arrived because for a period of time, all Police at Heathrow were armed (That excludes the PCSO's).
The signs are, as HD says, clear on all of the car parks, as are the ones on all access points saying no entry accept for the 3 reasons for being on the airport. Spotting isn't one of them.
Unfortunatly, there is no way of telling what you are doing, until you are stopped, and once that happens, and it's discovered what you are doing, the airport authority will want you off.
It's their property and they have, and do have every right to have you leave. Thats leaving aside the amount of time (which is considerable) spent by Police chasing spotters round.
If they all behaved then it'd not be so much of a problem, but they don't, spending their time blocking crash gates, parking in spaces which cost other companies a fortune to have and cutting holes in fences.
It's been said that having a spotting area would solve all of that, trouble is it wouldn't. You'd need 4 for starters, not one. The cost in terms of using that land for spotters areas would be considerable, given that land around and on the airport has a very high value.
The issue of badges, I really can't see any point in, there's little, if any vetting. So as a Police Officer stopping someone with one, what is gained? Little or nothing really. There's also an argument about eyes and ears, which is a public duty anyway, so how a badge helps, I'm not sure. That argument certainly hasn't proved to be correct in the past either, nothing came from spotters, apart from moaning during the morter attacks for example. In fact, in 11 years working at LHR I can't recall any spotter calling Police over anything, in spite of standing next to, and in one case on, things I'd call suspect.
The signs are, as HD says, clear on all of the car parks, as are the ones on all access points saying no entry accept for the 3 reasons for being on the airport. Spotting isn't one of them.
Unfortunatly, there is no way of telling what you are doing, until you are stopped, and once that happens, and it's discovered what you are doing, the airport authority will want you off.
It's their property and they have, and do have every right to have you leave. Thats leaving aside the amount of time (which is considerable) spent by Police chasing spotters round.
If they all behaved then it'd not be so much of a problem, but they don't, spending their time blocking crash gates, parking in spaces which cost other companies a fortune to have and cutting holes in fences.
It's been said that having a spotting area would solve all of that, trouble is it wouldn't. You'd need 4 for starters, not one. The cost in terms of using that land for spotters areas would be considerable, given that land around and on the airport has a very high value.
The issue of badges, I really can't see any point in, there's little, if any vetting. So as a Police Officer stopping someone with one, what is gained? Little or nothing really. There's also an argument about eyes and ears, which is a public duty anyway, so how a badge helps, I'm not sure. That argument certainly hasn't proved to be correct in the past either, nothing came from spotters, apart from moaning during the morter attacks for example. In fact, in 11 years working at LHR I can't recall any spotter calling Police over anything, in spite of standing next to, and in one case on, things I'd call suspect.
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It's been said that having a spotting area would solve all of that, trouble is it wouldn't. You'd need 4 for starters, not one. The cost in terms of using that land for spotters areas would be considerable, given that land around and on the airport has a very high value.
I spend enough of my money at a BAA airport flying on business, and althogh they are absolutely within their rights to ask me to leave if I'm not flying that day, it's still a bit harsh.
However the absolute essence of being British is understanding eccentricity. A white man with a camera and binocluars is more likely to be a spotter. If the Police want to chat to him thats OK, but getting the stupid form informing you that you were stopped under the Terrorism Act by plod is comic. I think I've got four or five, mainly at London City which is quieter and the Police get very bored.
Your description of spotters blocking the crash gates is pretty rare these days. Most know they'll get moved in minutes at LHR / LGW etc and the cars at the crash gates parked up tend to be with young families with daddy trying to show kiddies a plane taking off.
Of course that's very suspicious these days....sooner we get their DNA on some big database to lose the happier Big Brother will be *cough*
There's nothing more British than a plane spotter
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The Dutch are far worse!
And perhaps I should have said, I have been on both sides of the fence, photographer, and Police Officer, at LHR.
I still see spotters/photogs blocking crash and RVP gates, and parking in frankly stupid places.
When QB spotters area closed, some years ago, we expected more of the fence hangers, but to be honest, there wasn't much of an increase, if any. Which is why I don't think a spotters area would solve the problem. Also the cost in terms of manning and maintence, verus the income from say a car park, rules it out at Heathrow.
An assumption that a white person with a camera isn't a terrorist is a very dangerous one. Firstly it assumes a Muslim terrorist, which, given LHR's position in the world, is not a good assumption to make. And secondly even if that was the only possibility, Muslim is a religion, not a race. What colour is Cat Stevens (Sorry can't recall his current Muslim name)? There are a fair number of White European Muslims now, and even those from the middle east can be light enough skinned to be mistaken for European. Obviously the opposite can apply, I am dark skinned though British.
Would it have made you feel better if you'd been stopped under, say the Aviation Security Act? or to establish your reasons for being on the airport, under the Bye Laws? The end result would have been the same. Or even regarding you being in an area where there was a great deal of crime (well, a great deal is a relative terms, 2 is a great deal at Heathrow!).
Lastly, that building you were asking about, was the origin of quite a few calls to spotters/photogs on the roof of car parks.
Heathrow Director
Agreed, if they cleaned up thier act, then I think the BAA's attitude would soften towards them, sadly, they've never seen the sense in that approach.
And perhaps I should have said, I have been on both sides of the fence, photographer, and Police Officer, at LHR.
I still see spotters/photogs blocking crash and RVP gates, and parking in frankly stupid places.
When QB spotters area closed, some years ago, we expected more of the fence hangers, but to be honest, there wasn't much of an increase, if any. Which is why I don't think a spotters area would solve the problem. Also the cost in terms of manning and maintence, verus the income from say a car park, rules it out at Heathrow.
An assumption that a white person with a camera isn't a terrorist is a very dangerous one. Firstly it assumes a Muslim terrorist, which, given LHR's position in the world, is not a good assumption to make. And secondly even if that was the only possibility, Muslim is a religion, not a race. What colour is Cat Stevens (Sorry can't recall his current Muslim name)? There are a fair number of White European Muslims now, and even those from the middle east can be light enough skinned to be mistaken for European. Obviously the opposite can apply, I am dark skinned though British.
Would it have made you feel better if you'd been stopped under, say the Aviation Security Act? or to establish your reasons for being on the airport, under the Bye Laws? The end result would have been the same. Or even regarding you being in an area where there was a great deal of crime (well, a great deal is a relative terms, 2 is a great deal at Heathrow!).
Lastly, that building you were asking about, was the origin of quite a few calls to spotters/photogs on the roof of car parks.
Heathrow Director
Agreed, if they cleaned up thier act, then I think the BAA's attitude would soften towards them, sadly, they've never seen the sense in that approach.
The Future of the Control Tower Building at Heathrow
In response to the original enquiry ...
About a year ago, soon after the new Tower opened, we started a rumour, purely to see how long it would take to come around back to us.
On the staff buss we started to discuss the recent plans to sell-off the building and convert it to flats and appartments. We went a bit overboard in suggesting that the 'visual room' would become some kind of 'penthouse flat' with its own roof terrace, and should sell for just over £1 million. I added that I would certainly buy one, and then rent it out to night-stopping aircrew!
I week later on the bus we heard some airline staff from T1 talking about it. Gossip moves fast!
About a year ago, soon after the new Tower opened, we started a rumour, purely to see how long it would take to come around back to us.
On the staff buss we started to discuss the recent plans to sell-off the building and convert it to flats and appartments. We went a bit overboard in suggesting that the 'visual room' would become some kind of 'penthouse flat' with its own roof terrace, and should sell for just over £1 million. I added that I would certainly buy one, and then rent it out to night-stopping aircrew!
I week later on the bus we heard some airline staff from T1 talking about it. Gossip moves fast!
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Couldn't the old tower be used for the benefit if spotters?
It would give them a good view of the field, most of it anyway, and would keep a lot of them away from the terminal buildings. This could also give HAL another revenue source, coffee shop, entrance fee etc.
Just a thought.
It would give them a good view of the field, most of it anyway, and would keep a lot of them away from the terminal buildings. This could also give HAL another revenue source, coffee shop, entrance fee etc.
Just a thought.
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Valeman.. A non starter. There is no room for spectators cars in the central area and how much would you consider a reasonable entry fee to be? The old 6th floor Approach Room was used for corporate purposes at one stage and I dread to think what the fees were. The Aerodrome Control Room at the very top is a very small place so you'd need to consider the rooms beneath... Then there's the security aspects, maintenance of the building, etc, etc., and what do you use the rest of the place for?
You have to appreciate how much land in the Central Area is worth and a few reggie collectors (I'm one) coughing up a fiver to look out of the old tower is simply not a viable business proposition.
You have to appreciate how much land in the Central Area is worth and a few reggie collectors (I'm one) coughing up a fiver to look out of the old tower is simply not a viable business proposition.
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farnborough Spotting and POLICE \TAG Watch
The Farnborough police \Tag AV scheeme is an Airport Watch
idea Is like Neighbourhood watch we Inform the Police and
security if anything Suspicious is seen or that thats how it
should work.
The police for there part send an EMAIL with things they think
the watch should be aware of . Also the Pass we carry might
save a lot of Form filling . We also Have a password changed
every so often . Anything to save the stops by local police
and those forms . It was getting Silly some of us have 5 or
more and on one occasion a fisherman was stoped and
searched his holdalls and boxes on the Canal Bank I suppose
his rod bag could have held A SAM.
But lets be positive this idea seems to work TAG for there
part has invited members for Visits and members were able
to put over points about Spotters area .On that it was
agreed to look into certain areas and idea but would be
drawn out over Health and Safety matters no real change
there with most things.
Local beat Officer has called on Several other places
to inform them about the spotters and with that we have
reached aggreement where we can and cannot go .
This Scheeme may be extended to other Airfields in future
but there is already the LASS National ID scheeme that is
open to Everyone .
The Form is Downloadable from our website for the local
Watch .
Tony
farnborough
idea Is like Neighbourhood watch we Inform the Police and
security if anything Suspicious is seen or that thats how it
should work.
The police for there part send an EMAIL with things they think
the watch should be aware of . Also the Pass we carry might
save a lot of Form filling . We also Have a password changed
every so often . Anything to save the stops by local police
and those forms . It was getting Silly some of us have 5 or
more and on one occasion a fisherman was stoped and
searched his holdalls and boxes on the Canal Bank I suppose
his rod bag could have held A SAM.
But lets be positive this idea seems to work TAG for there
part has invited members for Visits and members were able
to put over points about Spotters area .On that it was
agreed to look into certain areas and idea but would be
drawn out over Health and Safety matters no real change
there with most things.
Local beat Officer has called on Several other places
to inform them about the spotters and with that we have
reached aggreement where we can and cannot go .
This Scheeme may be extended to other Airfields in future
but there is already the LASS National ID scheeme that is
open to Everyone .
The Form is Downloadable from our website for the local
Watch .
Tony
farnborough
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Scenario 1
Thirty men ( all men oddly enough ) standing on tip toes by a main road with lenses pressed up against a fence taking a shot of *insert interesting aircraft* lining up on 27L Numerous Police cars drive past, vans, dogs etc etc within an hour and nought is done other than the occasional pull of someone on the road for bad driving.
Scenario 2
Young guy at a certain roundabout in broad daylight, obvious spotter with big camera, off the road and alone ( odd as it's usually busy ) is surrounded by three coppers, given a stern lecture that they have better things to do with their time, warned within an inch of his life to leave the area and sent on his way. He also searched under the Prevention of Terrorism Act and given a silly little bit of paper that a thousand trees had to die for.
One's an easy box tick that plod did something, the other's too much like work, or my own view, they're doing no harm.
Same airport, same month, same group of people, same Police Force, VERY different approach. Scenario 2 had no sensitive movemenst of note. I reiterate that much of this is security theatre. The Met wouldn't know consistency if it had blue flashing lights and a siren!
Thirty men ( all men oddly enough ) standing on tip toes by a main road with lenses pressed up against a fence taking a shot of *insert interesting aircraft* lining up on 27L Numerous Police cars drive past, vans, dogs etc etc within an hour and nought is done other than the occasional pull of someone on the road for bad driving.
Scenario 2
Young guy at a certain roundabout in broad daylight, obvious spotter with big camera, off the road and alone ( odd as it's usually busy ) is surrounded by three coppers, given a stern lecture that they have better things to do with their time, warned within an inch of his life to leave the area and sent on his way. He also searched under the Prevention of Terrorism Act and given a silly little bit of paper that a thousand trees had to die for.
One's an easy box tick that plod did something, the other's too much like work, or my own view, they're doing no harm.
Same airport, same month, same group of people, same Police Force, VERY different approach. Scenario 2 had no sensitive movemenst of note. I reiterate that much of this is security theatre. The Met wouldn't know consistency if it had blue flashing lights and a siren!
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For several years my wife and I used to park on-airport at Heathrow near the 27R threshold. We drove our car off the road onto a grassy area beside a small electricity sub-station and then watched and photographed the landers, sometimes for an hour or more. We and our car wer clearly visible and although countless BAA, security and police vehicles drove past us we were never apprehended although many gave us more than a second glance. Maybe they thought an elderly couple weren't going to do any harm? Maybe the Heathrow Police don't have targets to achieve?
It's different at Farnborough, and possibly elsewhere, where the local Police use it as a simple method of boosting their monthly targets..
It's different at Farnborough, and possibly elsewhere, where the local Police use it as a simple method of boosting their monthly targets..