One Canuck's viewpoint
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One Canuck's viewpoint
One of my compatriots wrote this on another forum. I think it will be of interest to all, even though slightly localized...
You can take away everybody's nail clippers at security, but with the travelling public reduced to biting their nails, the only real pacifier is going to be the introduction of Sky Marshalls, full-time, all the time.
Stun guns on the flight deck just aren't going to cut the mustard. If one of these glorified camel drivers rolls through the cockpit door, you won't have time to get the safety off, never mind aim the damn thing, unless you sit on the pedestal facing backwards for the whole trip - you're only going to wind up electrifying the other pilot, or yourself, into a coma by mistake.
Steel doors are nice, but the paying passengers in the back get to watch you park yourself all nice and comfy cozy behind a half inch of titanium while they get to sit in the back and look around at all the suspects who even remotely look like they just crawled out of a bunker in Iraq, had a shave and a shower, slapped on some deodorant, and decided to go on holidays. That just ain't going to sell tickets, folks.
There are zillions of still fairly young retired RCMP, Provincial, and Municipal Police Officers, who happen to have a whole career's worth of experience dealing with these geeks in their arsenal of expertise, who would jump at the chance to augment their pensions with a regular flying block, complete with perks like travel benefits. Ocean liners have security, hotels have security, trains have security, why not jets?? And I don't mean the kind of security where the guy has an ominous looking walkie-talkie to throw. Sky Marshalls need to be heavily armed.
For the same price as installing a steel door, the DOT could approve another bulkhead Marshall seat on every airplane. If you paid a Marshall 50 grand a year plus travel perks, and hired about 600 Marshalls for an airline this size, for the coverage, you'd pay 30 million in tax deductible wages. If that level of highly advertised security only gave you 1 additional passenger per flight, at 400 departures per day, and an average 250 per ticket, you'd generate 36 million in revenue.
Another way to get Marshalls in the back end on every flight would be to offer limited pass benefits to every police force in Canada. If there's an empty standby seat in the back, why not. Work out an acceptable boarding priority, federal clearance to join the plan, charge them the service charge, and make sure they're armed to the teeth.
In my opinion, the first airline to announce and advertise Sky Marshalls is going to get back the big time market share. Marshalls are way, way, long overdue in this industry. You just watch. AMR or United, or one of the other large ones is going to do it really quick. The only sure way to stop the fanatics flat is to let them face the prospect of saying good morning to the hollow end of a nice shiny new semi-automatic Glock.
You can take away everybody's nail clippers at security, but with the travelling public reduced to biting their nails, the only real pacifier is going to be the introduction of Sky Marshalls, full-time, all the time.
Stun guns on the flight deck just aren't going to cut the mustard. If one of these glorified camel drivers rolls through the cockpit door, you won't have time to get the safety off, never mind aim the damn thing, unless you sit on the pedestal facing backwards for the whole trip - you're only going to wind up electrifying the other pilot, or yourself, into a coma by mistake.
Steel doors are nice, but the paying passengers in the back get to watch you park yourself all nice and comfy cozy behind a half inch of titanium while they get to sit in the back and look around at all the suspects who even remotely look like they just crawled out of a bunker in Iraq, had a shave and a shower, slapped on some deodorant, and decided to go on holidays. That just ain't going to sell tickets, folks.
There are zillions of still fairly young retired RCMP, Provincial, and Municipal Police Officers, who happen to have a whole career's worth of experience dealing with these geeks in their arsenal of expertise, who would jump at the chance to augment their pensions with a regular flying block, complete with perks like travel benefits. Ocean liners have security, hotels have security, trains have security, why not jets?? And I don't mean the kind of security where the guy has an ominous looking walkie-talkie to throw. Sky Marshalls need to be heavily armed.
For the same price as installing a steel door, the DOT could approve another bulkhead Marshall seat on every airplane. If you paid a Marshall 50 grand a year plus travel perks, and hired about 600 Marshalls for an airline this size, for the coverage, you'd pay 30 million in tax deductible wages. If that level of highly advertised security only gave you 1 additional passenger per flight, at 400 departures per day, and an average 250 per ticket, you'd generate 36 million in revenue.
Another way to get Marshalls in the back end on every flight would be to offer limited pass benefits to every police force in Canada. If there's an empty standby seat in the back, why not. Work out an acceptable boarding priority, federal clearance to join the plan, charge them the service charge, and make sure they're armed to the teeth.
In my opinion, the first airline to announce and advertise Sky Marshalls is going to get back the big time market share. Marshalls are way, way, long overdue in this industry. You just watch. AMR or United, or one of the other large ones is going to do it really quick. The only sure way to stop the fanatics flat is to let them face the prospect of saying good morning to the hollow end of a nice shiny new semi-automatic Glock.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I was involved in a security situation some years ago and a lesson I learned then may have some bearing on the 'armed marshalls' idea. A security guard was wandering around our 'protected' site carrying a massive torch. It was heavy, hard and looked more like a club. "That must come in useful" I observed, to which he replied that he never, ever carried it when patrolling, for the simple reason that if the bad guy got if off him , then he would probably have it used against him.
So consider, if we allow Glock 9/10mm weapons on board, then they are potential weapons for the bad guys. All they have to do is ID the marshall first. OK, that may be the hard part, but with careful observation over many months, it may be possible to build up a dosier on marshalls so that they are identifiable. Then it's a case of 'jumping' the marshall, taking his weapon, and hey presto, it's party time!
I would think twice before allowing guns on board for any reason.
So consider, if we allow Glock 9/10mm weapons on board, then they are potential weapons for the bad guys. All they have to do is ID the marshall first. OK, that may be the hard part, but with careful observation over many months, it may be possible to build up a dosier on marshalls so that they are identifiable. Then it's a case of 'jumping' the marshall, taking his weapon, and hey presto, it's party time!
I would think twice before allowing guns on board for any reason.
Union Goon
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Anybody capable of overcoming an armed and trained skymarshal is CERTAINLY already capable of overcoming a defensless crew.
IF they can overcome the marshal than the battle would have been lost anyway, but I will bet there will be times where they can't overcome the marshal.
Cheers
Wino
IF they can overcome the marshal than the battle would have been lost anyway, but I will bet there will be times where they can't overcome the marshal.
Cheers
Wino
Sims Fly Virtually
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Used to be 3rd Sand Dune from the Left - But now I'm somewhere else somewhere else.
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Interesting thoughts . . . My daughter (an Efay with an American outfit) is engaged to a Philly Cop, who often travels with her when she's on duty and he isn't. Unfortunately (?) he's not allowed to take any of his metal stuff with him, but it would certainly be one very well trained, not easily identified, defender in the event of trouble.
I'm six feet tall and he makes me look like a dwarf - with a '9-mil" in his hand he'd certainly have had a chance of disarming terrorists with "box-cutters" (for those who, like me, didn't know - that's American for "Stanley-knives"!)
You'd have to consider that pax might get a bit nervous if they glimpsed a gun under the jacket of a civie-dressed guy, but giving cops "staff passes" might be a very economical, yet effective, way of letting the "bad guys" run the risk of running into someone more heavily armed than they are.
As Pigboat says - El-Al don't get hijacked these days! (Should the ammo be restricted to "low velocity" in the interests of everyone?)
I'm six feet tall and he makes me look like a dwarf - with a '9-mil" in his hand he'd certainly have had a chance of disarming terrorists with "box-cutters" (for those who, like me, didn't know - that's American for "Stanley-knives"!)
You'd have to consider that pax might get a bit nervous if they glimpsed a gun under the jacket of a civie-dressed guy, but giving cops "staff passes" might be a very economical, yet effective, way of letting the "bad guys" run the risk of running into someone more heavily armed than they are.
As Pigboat says - El-Al don't get hijacked these days! (Should the ammo be restricted to "low velocity" in the interests of everyone?)
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Very nice to think of a Sky Marshall sitting up the front with a uniform and a double barrel. My first thought was one fast acting poison blow dart and he is out of the picture.
And letting ex-cops (or current ones) travel armed? How do you ensure that they are not the bad fellas in disguise?
If you travel El-Al, you won't know who is security until you try some funny business- then you'll wish you hadn't.
Min of two ex-SAS types (that's Special Services- thanks ex-Sim, i had envisioned a large pair of cutting scissors!) trained to operate as a team in an acft cabin. It may be a good "after-Service" job for them, and we know we are getting trained operators who know how to deal swiftly and efficiently with a situation.
It keeps the element of surprise with the good guys.
And letting ex-cops (or current ones) travel armed? How do you ensure that they are not the bad fellas in disguise?
If you travel El-Al, you won't know who is security until you try some funny business- then you'll wish you hadn't.
Min of two ex-SAS types (that's Special Services- thanks ex-Sim, i had envisioned a large pair of cutting scissors!) trained to operate as a team in an acft cabin. It may be a good "after-Service" job for them, and we know we are getting trained operators who know how to deal swiftly and efficiently with a situation.
It keeps the element of surprise with the good guys.
Sims Fly Virtually
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Edit to the above post - looks like my daughter is about to be an ex effay. Put in way over her "option" hours since the US airports opened again (while others were calling in "sick") but still Wolfey includes her in the 4000 layoffs 
Regub! Back to paying full fare for my air travel now who is offering the best rates from UK to US East Coast for when I next take a vacation and want to visit her . . .)
Guvnor - got any vacancies?!!?
Regub! Back to paying full fare for my air travel now who is offering the best rates from UK to US East Coast for when I next take a vacation and want to visit her . . .)
Guvnor - got any vacancies?!!?
ExSim, sorry to hear about your daughter. She wasn't here was she? http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/krista.ken/
