Don't point that thing at me
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Wet Coast
Don't point that thing at me
"Is that loaded, sir ?"
"No. See."
Click. BLAMM
"Well it's not loaded now."
http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.c...c=529877&xld=1
...airport operations were not disrupted... National Guard on a donut break ?
Good grief.
"No. See."
Click. BLAMM
"Well it's not loaded now."
http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.c...c=529877&xld=1
...airport operations were not disrupted... National Guard on a donut break ?
Good grief.
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 577
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From: here to eternity
Another example of US security regulations being 79 times more lax than Europe.
What the heck was he doing getting a rifle out at the check-in? What sort of a "responsible" firearms owner doesn't know how to unload it correctly before he packs it? Why on earth didn't police at the airport surround him the instant a weapon was displayed openly?
That's the extent of the limitations?
For any Americans reading this, in the UK and (as far as I am aware) the rest of Europe, a firearm may be carried on board an aircraft only as checked baggage, in a hold which is not accessible in flight. It must be unloaded. Furthermore, carriage of ammunition is subject to the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations.
If the aircraft does not have a hold that is inaccessible in flight, then ammunition may not be carried, the weapon must be locked in a strong gun case, fixed to a bulkhead or under cargo so as to be immovable in flight, and the keys kept separately...
In which country would you think a hijack would be easier?
In the meantime, they're getting paranoid about little old ladies (and pax domina!
) carrying knitting needles, for heavens' sakes. The entire thing is a farce, a charade.
[ 24 November 2001: Message edited by: HugMonster ]
Airport spokeswoman Tina Sharp said the gun's owner was checking luggage for an elk-hunting trip, showing a ticket agent the weapon wasn't loaded. While the owner checked the bolt-action on the rifle...
Unloaded firearms may be brought onto planes as long as airline officials are notified and the weapons aren't loaded.
For any Americans reading this, in the UK and (as far as I am aware) the rest of Europe, a firearm may be carried on board an aircraft only as checked baggage, in a hold which is not accessible in flight. It must be unloaded. Furthermore, carriage of ammunition is subject to the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations.
If the aircraft does not have a hold that is inaccessible in flight, then ammunition may not be carried, the weapon must be locked in a strong gun case, fixed to a bulkhead or under cargo so as to be immovable in flight, and the keys kept separately...
In which country would you think a hijack would be easier?
In the meantime, they're getting paranoid about little old ladies (and pax domina!
) carrying knitting needles, for heavens' sakes. The entire thing is a farce, a charade.[ 24 November 2001: Message edited by: HugMonster ]
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 290
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From: Various
Hug,
The author of your 2nd quote demonstrates an extremely poor choice of words or the words are those of an uninformed individual or one with an agenda. "Brought on board" vs. "checked".... world of difference what?
In the US, as in the UK, EU and much of the rest of the world, firearms may ONLY be carried as checked baggage. In the US ammunition cannot be packed with the weapon and the weapon must be in a locked container carried in a hold inaccesible in flight. Carriage of ammunition is, as you say, in accordance with IATA regulations.
In the US firearms must be demonstrated to be unloaded prior to their being accepted as checked baggage. The unloaded weapon is then returned to it's container and locked in. This demonstration is carried out at check-in.
You seem particularly incensed that a rifle was displayed at the check-in for inspection. Are you saying that UK airlines do not inspect checked firearms to determine that they do not contain ammunition? That would certainly answer your question as to which system was more hijack-prone.
I totally concur with your comments regarding the passenger's irresponsibility in this case. Perhaps it's time for Parliments and Congresses to enact "Criminal Stupidity" statutes.
The author of your 2nd quote demonstrates an extremely poor choice of words or the words are those of an uninformed individual or one with an agenda. "Brought on board" vs. "checked".... world of difference what?
In the US, as in the UK, EU and much of the rest of the world, firearms may ONLY be carried as checked baggage. In the US ammunition cannot be packed with the weapon and the weapon must be in a locked container carried in a hold inaccesible in flight. Carriage of ammunition is, as you say, in accordance with IATA regulations.
In the US firearms must be demonstrated to be unloaded prior to their being accepted as checked baggage. The unloaded weapon is then returned to it's container and locked in. This demonstration is carried out at check-in.
You seem particularly incensed that a rifle was displayed at the check-in for inspection. Are you saying that UK airlines do not inspect checked firearms to determine that they do not contain ammunition? That would certainly answer your question as to which system was more hijack-prone.
I totally concur with your comments regarding the passenger's irresponsibility in this case. Perhaps it's time for Parliments and Congresses to enact "Criminal Stupidity" statutes.
Joined: May 2001
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From: Lancs, UK
The only time I've transported firearms by plane in the UK they were checked in separately, under armed police supervision, and yes, I did have to prove they were unloaded. They were then loaded onto the plane. The security was somewhat spoiled when a small bag, festooned in tape bearing the words 'FIREARMS' sailed round the baggage conveyor at Belfast Aldergrove. Talk about being the centre of attention when I collected it!
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 577
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From: here to eternity
Firstly, anyone who stores a firearm in a loaded condition is a fool. If anyone takes a weapon to an airport intending it to be boarded on an aircraft, not knowing that it is loaded is a fool. Furthermore, anyone who thinks that the way you prove a firearm is unloaded is by pulling the trigger is criminally negligent. That the US Constitution allows such people access to firearms is disgraceful.
Yes, in the UK you need to show that a firearm is unloaded. This is normally done in a discreet area, away from the check-in desk, with police or security staff, or both present. Not by taking it out, showing it to the check-in agent and pulling the trigger.
StbdD, that quote came from the article itself, which you clearly haven't read.
Yes, in the UK you need to show that a firearm is unloaded. This is normally done in a discreet area, away from the check-in desk, with police or security staff, or both present. Not by taking it out, showing it to the check-in agent and pulling the trigger.
StbdD, that quote came from the article itself, which you clearly haven't read.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,018
Likes: 73
From: Pewsey, UK
In the UK, if a firearm is classified as a Section 1 firearm ( can't remember what the criteria are ) then you can't even have the ammunition and the weapon in the same place, albeit in separate containers, until you arrive at the firing range. For example, if you're travelling by car to a shooting competition, you'll need two cars - one for the weapons and one for the ammo. To do otherwise is a CRIMINAL offence ( my emphasis ).
This has been the case for a long time - and in the US, I only talk about gun control if I know the person I'm speaking to REALLY well - it's a tad too emotional otherwise.
This has been the case for a long time - and in the US, I only talk about gun control if I know the person I'm speaking to REALLY well - it's a tad too emotional otherwise.
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Life is somewhat different in South Africa. There, you carry your firearm with you right up to the security checkpoint. You then head off to the 'Special Baggage Services' desk where you unload your firearms in the slots provided (an unloaded firearm being worse than useless in South Africa) and you then present it, and the applicable licence to a police officer who notes down the weapon type, serial number, number of rounds of ammunition etc; sticks it in a bag and seals it. S/he then relieves you of R50 (probably gone up by now - the last time I did this was in 1999) and the bag (with ammo clip included) is then taken by ground staff and given to the Captain. At the other end, thye ground staff take it from the flight deck and you collect it from baggage services.
I did this once with an American friend in tow going from CPT to JNB - I was carrying my SIG P226 and my HK MP5K on me and had my Sites Spectre in a special case. This collection raised an eyebrow or two with the SAPS officers (who turned bright green with envy)
and I suspect caused my friend to cut short his trip somewhat.
I did this once with an American friend in tow going from CPT to JNB - I was carrying my SIG P226 and my HK MP5K on me and had my Sites Spectre in a special case. This collection raised an eyebrow or two with the SAPS officers (who turned bright green with envy)
and I suspect caused my friend to cut short his trip somewhat.
