Flightdeck visits ("jumpseat") forum!?
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Flightdeck visits ("jumpseat") forum!?
How about setting up a separate forum for the people who want to come and visit the flightdeck?
And for the ... time can't you call it flightdeck visits, or something else -
Jumpseating is non-revenue travel, normally reserved for crewmembers!
/skunks
And for the ... time can't you call it flightdeck visits, or something else -
Jumpseating is non-revenue travel, normally reserved for crewmembers!
/skunks
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The best method of securing a visit is to ask once you are onboard the flight.
The problem with asking here on PPRuNe is that even if the person scheduled to operate the flight reads your request, they may not actually operate that flight on the day. The result is that you then claim the Captain has pre-approved your request, when he/she probably knows nothing about it.
It is also difficult to make requests of other colleagues for people who may not be well known to you. There is a lot of goodwill available from many of the airline crews who frequent PPRuNe, but the general response is usually "ask onboard".
Some of us (not all) do our best to accomodate requests from people with a real interest in our job. We are also fortunate in being able to provide an insight to people who may be anxious about flying. But there is also a very valid arguement that the Flight deck should not be part of the inflight entertainment. There are security considerations. It should also be remembered that some crew do not want the possibility of distraction that is inevitably a result ( even to a minor degree) of visitors on the flightdeck.
My own opinion on this subject is that a forum for such requests already exists in the Form of "Aircrew Notices". But again I recommend asking the crew once you are onboard backing up your request with any validation you can provide ( such as a letter or business card or PPL etc).
A separate forum would generate a heap of requests of the type:-
" My girlfriend is travelling to Tenerife please tell her I love her on the PA ".
" I am 13 and want to sit on the Jumpseat from London to Jamaica".
etc.
Sorry if this sounds like the response of a kiljoy, but I personally believe that the subject of flight deck visitors is a matter for the careful consideration of the Captain on the day. In turn they will need to consider the wishes of the other crew members and the circumstances of the request. We are still very lucky in some companies to be able to accomodate such requests, however it is a privilige that is the gift of the Captain and should be treated as such. Recent isolated though high profile events have threatened the status quo. I suspect it wouldn't take many more events for the situation to become more akin to that existing in the United States where statute forbids such in flight visits.
For all these reasons I do not believe such a forum would be a prudent idea.
The problem with asking here on PPRuNe is that even if the person scheduled to operate the flight reads your request, they may not actually operate that flight on the day. The result is that you then claim the Captain has pre-approved your request, when he/she probably knows nothing about it.
It is also difficult to make requests of other colleagues for people who may not be well known to you. There is a lot of goodwill available from many of the airline crews who frequent PPRuNe, but the general response is usually "ask onboard".
Some of us (not all) do our best to accomodate requests from people with a real interest in our job. We are also fortunate in being able to provide an insight to people who may be anxious about flying. But there is also a very valid arguement that the Flight deck should not be part of the inflight entertainment. There are security considerations. It should also be remembered that some crew do not want the possibility of distraction that is inevitably a result ( even to a minor degree) of visitors on the flightdeck.
My own opinion on this subject is that a forum for such requests already exists in the Form of "Aircrew Notices". But again I recommend asking the crew once you are onboard backing up your request with any validation you can provide ( such as a letter or business card or PPL etc).
A separate forum would generate a heap of requests of the type:-
" My girlfriend is travelling to Tenerife please tell her I love her on the PA ".
" I am 13 and want to sit on the Jumpseat from London to Jamaica".
etc.
Sorry if this sounds like the response of a kiljoy, but I personally believe that the subject of flight deck visitors is a matter for the careful consideration of the Captain on the day. In turn they will need to consider the wishes of the other crew members and the circumstances of the request. We are still very lucky in some companies to be able to accomodate such requests, however it is a privilige that is the gift of the Captain and should be treated as such. Recent isolated though high profile events have threatened the status quo. I suspect it wouldn't take many more events for the situation to become more akin to that existing in the United States where statute forbids such in flight visits.
For all these reasons I do not believe such a forum would be a prudent idea.
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I agree, the best/only way to get a visit is to ask when you are boarding.
However, I do disagree with your comments on the need for an extra forum.
Aren't these exactly the type of posts that we are having now? When I look at this forum today (last 5days):
If you read the posts, there seems to be some confusion about whether its a request for a jumpseat or a visit!
Although this forum is to contain Misc topics, these requests take up a large part of the forum, and quite frankly, don't have any interest to most ppruners. If there was a separate forum, the ones who are interested could give each advice, and share their experiences.
I am interested in the question about jumpseating in Europe. The problem is that its impossible to know which posts are dealing with this issue. Surely I can open them and look, but, when you are far away from home on a sloooow internet connection - it's less amusing. Maybe people looking for info on visits are having the same problem, then we just need to find a way to differentiate between the two.
Before anyone starts throwing tomatoes at me; When it's possible/suitable, I happily accept visitors to the flightdeck.
/skunks
However, I do disagree with your comments on the need for an extra forum.
I am 13 and want to sit on the jumpseat from London to Jamaica
- Jumpseat with Easy
- Jumpseat with GB
- Jumpseat with Buzz
- Jumpseat from EGCC-EGGP
If you read the posts, there seems to be some confusion about whether its a request for a jumpseat or a visit!
Although this forum is to contain Misc topics, these requests take up a large part of the forum, and quite frankly, don't have any interest to most ppruners. If there was a separate forum, the ones who are interested could give each advice, and share their experiences.
I am interested in the question about jumpseating in Europe. The problem is that its impossible to know which posts are dealing with this issue. Surely I can open them and look, but, when you are far away from home on a sloooow internet connection - it's less amusing. Maybe people looking for info on visits are having the same problem, then we just need to find a way to differentiate between the two.
Before anyone starts throwing tomatoes at me; When it's possible/suitable, I happily accept visitors to the flightdeck.
/skunks
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I am not a professional pilot (too short-sighted to pursue such a career) but have flown a lot with different airlines. When it seemed appropriate, I have asked the purser if he/she would enquire of the Captain if a flightdeck visit might be possible. I ask only once. If I am invited I feel very privileged, love the "best seat in the house" (albeit temporarily) and always invite the crew to tell me to leave their "office" as I am likely to outstay my welcome! This has resulted in many invitations to either stay (in Europe) or return (longhaul) for the landing!! Only with BA (a friend was the captain) and SAS have I also been lucky enough to experience a take-off from the flight deck.
May I therefore say a big "Thank You" to all who have tolerated my presence and who in the future will do so!!
And..to keep this post on-topic I think it would be inappropriate to make a forum for flightdeck visits - to ask on the day is better - the cabin crew can assess the individual (so far I have passed muster!) and the flight deck can decide whether or not they wish to have someone hanging around in their office!
May I therefore say a big "Thank You" to all who have tolerated my presence and who in the future will do so!!
And..to keep this post on-topic I think it would be inappropriate to make a forum for flightdeck visits - to ask on the day is better - the cabin crew can assess the individual (so far I have passed muster!) and the flight deck can decide whether or not they wish to have someone hanging around in their office!
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Skunkworks , I'm with you.
Also, though still sitting on the right side of the pointed end, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank all PICs having asked me before seating anybody on the centre seat. It is a sign of respect and CRM, despite the fact that the final decision lies with the pic
Also, though still sitting on the right side of the pointed end, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank all PICs having asked me before seating anybody on the centre seat. It is a sign of respect and CRM, despite the fact that the final decision lies with the pic
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I must admit I misunderstood your first post Skunkworks. I saw your point on the second - must be the time of night! It is an interesting idea, although I have already helped with such requests on R&N a couple of times, as have several others.
I guess it's no skin off anyone's nose if such a forum were to be added, apart from the hard-working gang who keep this show running. Unfortunately, such is the nature of things on this site, these days, that I suspect Jetdriver is closest to the mark on what the result would be.
I, too, think it might invite a deluge and maybe draw attention to a facility that we still have here in UK (etc) but that could easily be stopped through excess publicity. I am in favour of keeping a low profile on this one, or we'll lose it altogether as did our American friends.
I guess it's no skin off anyone's nose if such a forum were to be added, apart from the hard-working gang who keep this show running. Unfortunately, such is the nature of things on this site, these days, that I suspect Jetdriver is closest to the mark on what the result would be.
I, too, think it might invite a deluge and maybe draw attention to a facility that we still have here in UK (etc) but that could easily be stopped through excess publicity. I am in favour of keeping a low profile on this one, or we'll lose it altogether as did our American friends.
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Ok, I guess the separate forum isn't going to happen. 
But, can't we at least try to get the definitions straight!? This really should be in the interest of both Jumpseaters and "Cockpit Visitors".
Jumpseat. I suppose it's actually the seat itself. But, at least to me jumpseating refers to non-revenue, space available travel which is normally reserved for crewmembers (from airlines with reciprocal agreements).
Cockpit visits Is this a good term? Does anyone have a better one? At least it would make things a bit less confusing if the two were used.
(mostly for US crews, but still good): http://www.paccrews.org/jumpseat/alp...20policies.htm
/skunks
But, can't we at least try to get the definitions straight!? This really should be in the interest of both Jumpseaters and "Cockpit Visitors".
Jumpseat. I suppose it's actually the seat itself. But, at least to me jumpseating refers to non-revenue, space available travel which is normally reserved for crewmembers (from airlines with reciprocal agreements).
Cockpit visits Is this a good term? Does anyone have a better one? At least it would make things a bit less confusing if the two were used.
(mostly for US crews, but still good): http://www.paccrews.org/jumpseat/alp...20policies.htm
/skunks
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As an ATSA, [Air Traffic Assistant] at Manchester, I am fortunate in being able to have a "Familiarisation Flight" with various Airlines. I have a valid ticket AND a letter of introduction.....and I sometimes cannot get on the flight deck, [which really is the name of the game].
If it happens, it's fantastic. If it don't, it's still an "experience" flight.
Ask, and ye MAY receive. don't, and you'll be hacked off forever.
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
[ 22 July 2001: Message edited by: chiglet ]
[ 22 July 2001: Message edited by: chiglet ]
If it happens, it's fantastic. If it don't, it's still an "experience" flight.
Ask, and ye MAY receive. don't, and you'll be hacked off forever.
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
[ 22 July 2001: Message edited by: chiglet ]
[ 22 July 2001: Message edited by: chiglet ]
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Chiglet, maybe it's my level of english (or intelligence), but I really don't understand what you are trying to say!? 
My office is called Flightdeck, not cockpit?
You do "Familiarisation Flights" riding as a passenger in the back?
/skunks
My office is called Flightdeck, not cockpit?
You do "Familiarisation Flights" riding as a passenger in the back?
/skunks
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skunk
Semantics
"Cockpit" has nasty connotations. Flightdeck "seems" to be the accepted verbiage at this moment in time.
To your question..Yes, it still is an experience in the back. I can only sit in the front IF THE CAPTAIN SAYS THAT I CAN! [sorry about the shout]
Example, Manchester to Berlin. Set up 4 weeks in advance. Ooooops, training flight, cockpit for landing at Berlin, [with a great input from the Captain] then the Cabin back to Manchester. Bit of a disaster, but still a "Great Day Out".
I learned, I filled my Fam Flight form out, the next person will gain.
If I can fly "down the back" or stay on the ground...No contest
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
[ 22 July 2001: Message edited by: chiglet ]
Semantics
"Cockpit" has nasty connotations. Flightdeck "seems" to be the accepted verbiage at this moment in time.
To your question..Yes, it still is an experience in the back. I can only sit in the front IF THE CAPTAIN SAYS THAT I CAN! [sorry about the shout]
Example, Manchester to Berlin. Set up 4 weeks in advance. Ooooops, training flight, cockpit for landing at Berlin, [with a great input from the Captain] then the Cabin back to Manchester. Bit of a disaster, but still a "Great Day Out".
I learned, I filled my Fam Flight form out, the next person will gain.
If I can fly "down the back" or stay on the ground...No contest
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
[ 22 July 2001: Message edited by: chiglet ]
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As you can see in my previous posts, I normally use Flightdeck. Since I thought Flight deck was actually two words, Cockpit visits seemed easier.
Semantics, Connotations, Verbiage - Hmm, I'm getting flashbacks from English class.
Sorry about the Fam flights, but I guess that you can never get too familiar with airline food...
/skunks
Semantics, Connotations, Verbiage - Hmm, I'm getting flashbacks from English class.
Sorry about the Fam flights, but I guess that you can never get too familiar with airline food...
/skunks
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COC/skunk,
Thanx guys.
BUT S**t still happens. Fam flt, MAN-LHR-MAN, Letter of intro etc. gave to SFA, who gave to Captain (set up 3+ weeks in advance) Outbound, no probs. In cockpit(aka Flightdeck) [sorry skunk] for eng start/push and taxi. Inbound, pax strapped in and then, only after push was invited to go "up front"
Teriffic day out, but [ever so slighttly] inconsistant.
why am I whingeing? I was in the cockpit, wasn't I? Am I a "compleat idiot"?
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
Thanx guys.
BUT S**t still happens. Fam flt, MAN-LHR-MAN, Letter of intro etc. gave to SFA, who gave to Captain (set up 3+ weeks in advance) Outbound, no probs. In cockpit(aka Flightdeck) [sorry skunk] for eng start/push and taxi. Inbound, pax strapped in and then, only after push was invited to go "up front"
Teriffic day out, but [ever so slighttly] inconsistant.
why am I whingeing? I was in the cockpit, wasn't I? Am I a "compleat idiot"?
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
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I have a question for the lot of you!
How come there is no "real" jump seating in Europe (or are there). When I worked in the States I used to "jump around" quite a lot for FREE as you all know. Not on an ID-ticket that still does not guarantee me a seat although I've paid for the ticket (I know you can get them booked as well, thank you ).
Don't really see why it would be a problem in Europe.
If you ask me the ID-ticket system sucks! (I am prepared for the nasty comments I'm about to get on that one ) European airlines should be able to allow each others crews to ride on the jump seat for free. The only way you can get a free ride in Europe these days is when you know someone important .
Comments?
Will
How come there is no "real" jump seating in Europe (or are there). When I worked in the States I used to "jump around" quite a lot for FREE as you all know. Not on an ID-ticket that still does not guarantee me a seat although I've paid for the ticket (I know you can get them booked as well, thank you
).Don't really see why it would be a problem in Europe.
If you ask me the ID-ticket system sucks! (I am prepared for the nasty comments I'm about to get on that one
) European airlines should be able to allow each others crews to ride on the jump seat for free. The only way you can get a free ride in Europe these days is when you know someone important .Comments?
Will
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Seems to me there are two threads in one here.
First is the natural curiosity of folk to see something of how your mighty jet gets from A to B piloted by a couple of plonkers who seem to just sit there grinning at you, confirming your belief that it is all automatic nowadays.
The second thread is about something that does not seem to have caught on much outside the USA where professionals expect to get a free ride to just about anywhere.
Can't comment on the latter but, on my last trip, we had 85 children. When the movie finished did they want to come and meet us? You bet they did.
Bizarrely, on the return flight there was not a single request conveyed to us.
Can you wannabes have a little sympathy.
Contrary to all appearances when you walk into our den, we do have a job to do and are taking time out to humour you.
It's nice if you are intelligent and better if you are involved in aviation but give us a break, there are days when I get hoarse telling the fiftieth infant what every knob and button does.
First is the natural curiosity of folk to see something of how your mighty jet gets from A to B piloted by a couple of plonkers who seem to just sit there grinning at you, confirming your belief that it is all automatic nowadays.
The second thread is about something that does not seem to have caught on much outside the USA where professionals expect to get a free ride to just about anywhere.
Can't comment on the latter but, on my last trip, we had 85 children. When the movie finished did they want to come and meet us? You bet they did.
Bizarrely, on the return flight there was not a single request conveyed to us.
Can you wannabes have a little sympathy.
Contrary to all appearances when you walk into our den, we do have a job to do and are taking time out to humour you.
It's nice if you are intelligent and better if you are involved in aviation but give us a break, there are days when I get hoarse telling the fiftieth infant what every knob and button does.
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Jetdriver
Why would you say you love someone elses girlfriend on the PA.
Asking for trouble that is, what if he's jealous.
You'd need a big macho steward to save you and you know how common they are. . .
What's in the FAK anyway?
Why would you say you love someone elses girlfriend on the PA.
Asking for trouble that is, what if he's jealous.
You'd need a big macho steward to save you and you know how common they are. . .
What's in the FAK anyway?