British Airways another inflight smoke event!
Oops!
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Ray,
As I said on the other thread about this: If you are a member of, or do have links to the press would you kindly educate them and indeed yourself as to the difference between an 'Emergency Landing’ and a ‘Precautionary Landing’; the two really are quite distinctly different creatures.
It really would make all our lives easier if the phrase 'Emergency Landing' would cease to be bandied about by the media with such gay-abandon.
Cheers
As I said on the other thread about this: If you are a member of, or do have links to the press would you kindly educate them and indeed yourself as to the difference between an 'Emergency Landing’ and a ‘Precautionary Landing’; the two really are quite distinctly different creatures.
It really would make all our lives easier if the phrase 'Emergency Landing' would cease to be bandied about by the media with such gay-abandon.
Cheers
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: The Land Downunder
Posts: 765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blueray,
Once again, if you are so happy to talk about airline safety records then please do state who exactly you work for??? I can almost guarantee that I could dredge up untold numbers of incidents for almost any UK operator. BA is my third airline job, withstanding the very public PR disasters (T5, Baggage etc..), I can safely say that maintenance and safety culture is the best I have seen it at any airline I have worked for. I have not had any maintenance related issues in the course of my working life at BA, not something I could say at my previous airlines.
Once again, if you are so happy to talk about airline safety records then please do state who exactly you work for??? I can almost guarantee that I could dredge up untold numbers of incidents for almost any UK operator. BA is my third airline job, withstanding the very public PR disasters (T5, Baggage etc..), I can safely say that maintenance and safety culture is the best I have seen it at any airline I have worked for. I have not had any maintenance related issues in the course of my working life at BA, not something I could say at my previous airlines.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Manchester
Age: 56
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ba guys poorly informed
artificial horizon, no maintenance issues while you've been at ba! I suggest your start reading your aaib reports!
Plenty of material theie. What about the maintenance manager who used someone elses authorization to clear aircraft while he was on holiday! Or the 777 leaving gatwick losing a panel, causing severe damage. Why? Because of what they called blind stamping, clearing a job they had never seen! I could go on, but please don't say there are no maintenance issues at ba.
Getting back to that institutional delusion i mentioned in a previous thread.
Plenty of material theie. What about the maintenance manager who used someone elses authorization to clear aircraft while he was on holiday! Or the 777 leaving gatwick losing a panel, causing severe damage. Why? Because of what they called blind stamping, clearing a job they had never seen! I could go on, but please don't say there are no maintenance issues at ba.
Getting back to that institutional delusion i mentioned in a previous thread.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: The Land Downunder
Posts: 765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blueray, you really are a complete tool. I didn't mean in the airline, I meant that I had been personally exposed too (anyone who could actually read would see that I said 'I have not had any inncidents whilst working at BA) . Question still stands, who do you work for??
OFF!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Manchester
Age: 56
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
anger management
handbags gentlemen! Now your friend and colleague carnage matey! Has used anger management training to good effect, well so he says. Give him a nudge and he might give you the name of his councilor.
Worryingly, your supposed to be professional pilots. With outbursts like that i don't think so.
As for my occupation, free lance dear chap.
Back on subject we're discussing the 3 emergency landings by ba aircraft in the last week. Polite comments anyone?
Worryingly, your supposed to be professional pilots. With outbursts like that i don't think so.
As for my occupation, free lance dear chap.
Back on subject we're discussing the 3 emergency landings by ba aircraft in the last week. Polite comments anyone?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: U.K.
Age: 68
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No one was hurt or taken ill and passengers were able to disembark normally
No one was hurt or taken ill and passengers were able to disembark normally after the flight
The following is a testimony of a passenger who experienced a single fume event:
Re: Exposure to toxic substances on commercial aircraft.
I was a passenger on Flight XYZ. The flight originated from ABC and was en route to DEF. The passenger cabin filled with noxious fumes right after take off. All I had was my leather coat and placed this over my face to act as a filter.
The pilot came over the speaker after 40 minutes or so and said that he was aware of the odour and was contacting ground control for help in determining its origin. Another hour went by and the pilot came on again and said that they could not determine the cause of the odour and would be landing at GHI. He turned us around and it took another 40 minutes before we landed in GHI. What happened next was even more appalling.
After nearly three hours of being subjected to fumes, the airline did not de board us in GHI but made us wait another 45 minutes on the plane while they tried to fix the problem (apparently they didn’t want to deal with the problem of de boarding and re boarding us). I still had my jacket over my face and was extremely tired, dizzy and having difficulty breathing – it was horrible. Finally, someone made the decision that the plane could not fly and we were released from the cabin. I was so sick upon de boarding that I cancelled the rest of my business trip and requested a flight back to my hometown of JKL.
Little did I know that my health in the next year and a half would continue to degrade to more frightening levels.
Upon my return home, I spent the next day sick in bed. I called the airline to enquire as to what chemicals I was exposed. They stated that I needed to write them a letter or e mail to get any information. I did so asking for an explanation of what happened and an MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for the chemicals I was exposed to.
I went to the doctor and was diagnosed with an extreme respiratory irritation. A month later I began getting dizzy spells. Two months later these turned into involuntary shakes through the head and chest, associated with difficulty breathing and gasps for air. I called the airline again and finally they sent a letter explaining that there had been an oil leak, but no MSDS. Instead they sent me a voucher for $150 (that I never used – I haven’t flown since and never will again).
The symptoms have worsened since then. In addition to the difficulty in breathing, I now have food intolerances, difficulty concentrating, chronic fatigue and cognitive dysfunction. I was not able to perform in my job – which I have since lost – and still sleep 10 – 12 hours a night, waking up exhausted. I was a top runner before this incident and can barely exercise now.
No doctor seems able to help me. I’ve been to the emergency room several times, thinking I was having a heart attack. I’ve seen pulmonologists, cardiologists and rheumatologists and now have seen a neurologist and an occupational health specialist.
Finally after 14 months after the incident, the airline has sent me an MSDS for XXXXX turbo oil and said that there had been an oil leak in a pressure regulator shut-off valve, but that what I was exposed to was similar to smelling engine oil while driving a car. I’ve tried to get more information from the FAA, but have had no luck. The airline will no longer talk to me and has told me to contact a lawyer.
As I am sure you are aware, numerous reports and legal proceedings have occurred over the issue of jet engine oil toxicity in aircraft.
I, along with many scientists and medical professionals, am convinced that the toxic effects of exposures of jet engine oil and hydraulic fluids are serious issues that need to be addressed. I am one of the many victims who have come forward, only to be ignored by the airline industry and the FAA.
I suggest anybody who has been exposed to oil fumes in the confines of an airliner reads the recently published (August 2008) 'Exposure to aircraft bleed air contaminants among airline workers Protocol' - 'A Guide for Health Care Providers' and face up to the reality of serious ill health that often results.
A Fume event could wreck YOUR health permanently - Denial is neither responsible nor intelligent from potential victims and actively prevents known technical solutions from being implemented.
DB
Think one of the industry problems is that operators such as BA and QF are operating in environments where everything is openly reported normally so ends up in the public domain , which isnt good for PR . If one looks at all the overseas carriers flying into LHR for example , how many of them get the same negative PR ? So because its not in the public domain does that mean its not happening ? The fumes issue and the IFE issues are an industry problem at the moment . Its a very close call between saying fumes/smell is ok or warrants a diversion , especially as most of the time we engineers end up finding no faults at the time . The usual works perfectly until airborne problem! But at the end of the day the inconvenience and hassle of a diversion can not be criticised if it prevents another SR tragedy . These decisions arent taken lightly as the present state of the industry means everyone is under incredible commercial pressure , so i for one am happy to see these incidents in the open as it puts pressure on the vendors to resolve the technical issues that are affecting everone . Alot of the IFE issues are boxes overheating which will only be picked up by a failure or smell ! Shorter maintenance intervals will have no effect on this .
Another 10 minutes of my life wasted on a pointless thread. Back to the Tech forum, Guy's stop feeding the troll...
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree, particularly as he still can't read as the recent event wasn't an emergency landing.
Lets all go find something more interesting to read elsewhere on PPRuNe! Hopefully without any input from him...
Lets all go find something more interesting to read elsewhere on PPRuNe! Hopefully without any input from him...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BlueRay,
Which perfect organisation is it you work for? Why do you only look for issues with BA? I think you'll find plenty of other companies have issues also, but its boring the way you focus on just BA!
Which perfect organisation is it you work for? Why do you only look for issues with BA? I think you'll find plenty of other companies have issues also, but its boring the way you focus on just BA!
Cool Mod
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: 18nm N of LGW
Posts: 6,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PS Mods can't you ban this idiot? I can't be the only person getting irritated by his senseless ramblings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Age: 43
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aviation incidents are the hot topic in the news at the moment so every little problem gets reported.
Which reminds me, I had an alternator fail on a PA28 on Saturday, does anyone have the number for the BBC news desk? There weren't any death plunges or screaming passengers (it was only me and the CFI on board at the time) but we did have fire trucks following us to the stand. Not much of an event probably newsworthy if the BBCs latest offerings are anything to go by!
Maybe I could start my own thread, 'Pilot lands aircraft with slightly discharged battery', then I could have a whole team of armchair technicians diagnose the fault and what went wrong along with a load of professional pilots patting me on the back for 'a job well done'...
Which reminds me, I had an alternator fail on a PA28 on Saturday, does anyone have the number for the BBC news desk? There weren't any death plunges or screaming passengers (it was only me and the CFI on board at the time) but we did have fire trucks following us to the stand. Not much of an event probably newsworthy if the BBCs latest offerings are anything to go by!
Maybe I could start my own thread, 'Pilot lands aircraft with slightly discharged battery', then I could have a whole team of armchair technicians diagnose the fault and what went wrong along with a load of professional pilots patting me on the back for 'a job well done'...
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Heathrow
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and the point of your pathetic attempt to be humourus?
The real threat here is not blueray or any other journo. The real threat lies in the blinkered approach that nobody is allowed to make a critical post.
For an industry that has done so much to rid itself of self defeating behaviour many of you need to re-examine your motives for always trying to imply nothing is wrong. Ye right.
Open reporting and cultures will achieve far more than the closed shop prevailing here at the moment.
BA are fair game just like any other airline
Wake up...please
The real threat here is not blueray or any other journo. The real threat lies in the blinkered approach that nobody is allowed to make a critical post.
For an industry that has done so much to rid itself of self defeating behaviour many of you need to re-examine your motives for always trying to imply nothing is wrong. Ye right.
Open reporting and cultures will achieve far more than the closed shop prevailing here at the moment.
BA are fair game just like any other airline
Wake up...please
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Manchester
Age: 56
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those who say I'm a journo from the Daily Mail, I am not. Carnage Matey! suggested I must be from the Daily mail as I knew more about the content of tonights programme on Despatches (Channel 4 at 8pm). I can tell you that the only reason I know anything is I'm interested and I can use google and read my results.
There is a strange thing though, the initial dailymail article published night changed rather quickly. The first offering showed a more indepth description of the programme content. It did mention safety culture and maintenance.
There is still evidence of this 'footprint' on the net as follows;
British Airways is under fire for having one of the worst records for cancelling flights
Daily Mail - 12 Oct 06:37PM
British Airways is under fire on Monday for having one of the worst records in Europe for cancelling flights and losing bags - with its safety and maintenance regime also questioned in the wake of the recent Heathrow crash-landing.
So I think the programme is going to have a little more than a few lost bags. I think this maintenance issue, fits hand in glove with the three inflight emergencies BA have experienced this last week.
I would also say that the abuse from the BA participants on this site is aimed to drive this topic off the more public areas. They have succeeded in their aim. I do request the PPRUNE moderators actually return this thread to a more suitable place for serious (not abusive) debate.
There is a strange thing though, the initial dailymail article published night changed rather quickly. The first offering showed a more indepth description of the programme content. It did mention safety culture and maintenance.
There is still evidence of this 'footprint' on the net as follows;
British Airways is under fire for having one of the worst records for cancelling flights
Daily Mail - 12 Oct 06:37PM
British Airways is under fire on Monday for having one of the worst records in Europe for cancelling flights and losing bags - with its safety and maintenance regime also questioned in the wake of the recent Heathrow crash-landing.
So I think the programme is going to have a little more than a few lost bags. I think this maintenance issue, fits hand in glove with the three inflight emergencies BA have experienced this last week.
I would also say that the abuse from the BA participants on this site is aimed to drive this topic off the more public areas. They have succeeded in their aim. I do request the PPRUNE moderators actually return this thread to a more suitable place for serious (not abusive) debate.
