Take offs from BHD
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Belfast
Take offs from BHD
Could any pilot who regularly flies into BHD please explain something for me?
I regularly fly from Belfast City and live close enough to see aircraft using it at close quarters on a daily basis as they either approach or depart over the east of the city.
However, occasionally one takes off towards the Lough but then makes a wide turn to the left - presumably over the Duncrue industrial area - and then comes back over the city at a higher altitude.
Why is this done and how does it tie in with the regulations which state 1500 and 3000 for turboprops and jets respectively as the heights at which they may make a turn after take-off from BHD?
I believe when taking off towards the Lough they must remain over water and not turn into the North Down coastline until they achieve these altitudes.
On taking off over the city I thought they were not supposed to make any turns until reaching similar heights.
By the way I'm a great supporter of the airport and have no objection to aircraft leaving earlier in the morning and landing later at night.
The occasional airbus, embraer or dash would not annoy Mrs. Frequentflyer and me at all.
I regularly fly from Belfast City and live close enough to see aircraft using it at close quarters on a daily basis as they either approach or depart over the east of the city.
However, occasionally one takes off towards the Lough but then makes a wide turn to the left - presumably over the Duncrue industrial area - and then comes back over the city at a higher altitude.
Why is this done and how does it tie in with the regulations which state 1500 and 3000 for turboprops and jets respectively as the heights at which they may make a turn after take-off from BHD?
I believe when taking off towards the Lough they must remain over water and not turn into the North Down coastline until they achieve these altitudes.
On taking off over the city I thought they were not supposed to make any turns until reaching similar heights.
By the way I'm a great supporter of the airport and have no objection to aircraft leaving earlier in the morning and landing later at night.
The occasional airbus, embraer or dash would not annoy Mrs. Frequentflyer and me at all.
StandupfortheUlstermen
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Peoples' Democratic Republic of Wurzelsetshire
frequentflyer2 - I'm not a pilot but an ex-City ATCO so I'll explain as best I can remember.
BCA agreed with the planning authorities many years ago that they would endeavour to achieve a bias of flights arriving and departing over Belfast Lough to try and minimise the impact on local residents. We always tried to achieve the magic figure of 70% which we did most months with some way above that. To that end, we had an agreement with based airlines that they would accept up to a 10kt tail wind for runway 04 deps and 22 arrivals subject to their operational considerations for each flight. As 99.9% of flights went eastbound to some degree, most crews happily accepted 04 for deps.
However, when you're playing both ends against each other, it can get a bit close and since there is no noise abatement procedure off 04 when turning left (due to the Harbour Estate not having any residents), we were able to utilise the 'left turn through the overhead on track Ringa/Duffy etc' procedure. Not a published procedure, but then again, not against any rules. It expedited deps and didn't hurt anyone. Another dep you might see is left off 04 towards the north Loughshore then parallel the final approach (we used to do this for the Scottish bound ATPs) rather than take them south then north.
Anyway, many of us lived in North Down (Bangor mainly) and couldn't be doing with noisy planey things over our houses, by jiminy no!
BCA agreed with the planning authorities many years ago that they would endeavour to achieve a bias of flights arriving and departing over Belfast Lough to try and minimise the impact on local residents. We always tried to achieve the magic figure of 70% which we did most months with some way above that. To that end, we had an agreement with based airlines that they would accept up to a 10kt tail wind for runway 04 deps and 22 arrivals subject to their operational considerations for each flight. As 99.9% of flights went eastbound to some degree, most crews happily accepted 04 for deps.
However, when you're playing both ends against each other, it can get a bit close and since there is no noise abatement procedure off 04 when turning left (due to the Harbour Estate not having any residents), we were able to utilise the 'left turn through the overhead on track Ringa/Duffy etc' procedure. Not a published procedure, but then again, not against any rules. It expedited deps and didn't hurt anyone. Another dep you might see is left off 04 towards the north Loughshore then parallel the final approach (we used to do this for the Scottish bound ATPs) rather than take them south then north.
Anyway, many of us lived in North Down (Bangor mainly) and couldn't be doing with noisy planey things over our houses, by jiminy no!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 849
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From: UK
Left turns from 04 all the way round over the city, as stated above, are often requested by crews as a more expeditious means of departing to the south than following the standard noise departure. Similarly, if departing 22 for a northerly or easterly routing, a right turn out is quicker than following the published departures involving turns out to the south and then a north-easterly routing.
Mainly though, it's fun!
Mainly though, it's fun!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 671
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From: UAE
Hi,
I`ll just add a little to what Standard has already said.
There is still a bias of traffic over the lough but its more like 55% these days. The traffic now is faster and more frequent and that makes departing 04 against landing 22 quite just not worth the extra effort. The 04 dep may thank you for it but the 22 inbound will hold a grudge about it all day if you give him 5 extra miles or god forbid use speed control. If an Atco tells you he`s gonna get you off Rwy 04 when its Rwy 22 in use there is a high probability that he`s just about to stitch up the radar guy!!
The most common reasons why turns over the City are used are for pilot requests or to expedite departures. When there is slow traffic ahead of fast or the clearances we are getting make it the easiest way to provide separation as quickly as possible. Likewise overhead joins for visual circuits over the City its all about expedition whilst ensuring the separation.
I`ll just add a little to what Standard has already said.
There is still a bias of traffic over the lough but its more like 55% these days. The traffic now is faster and more frequent and that makes departing 04 against landing 22 quite just not worth the extra effort. The 04 dep may thank you for it but the 22 inbound will hold a grudge about it all day if you give him 5 extra miles or god forbid use speed control. If an Atco tells you he`s gonna get you off Rwy 04 when its Rwy 22 in use there is a high probability that he`s just about to stitch up the radar guy!!
The most common reasons why turns over the City are used are for pilot requests or to expedite departures. When there is slow traffic ahead of fast or the clearances we are getting make it the easiest way to provide separation as quickly as possible. Likewise overhead joins for visual circuits over the City its all about expedition whilst ensuring the separation.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 291
Likes: 26
From: Hundred Acre Wood
Jabberwok: was that really a steep turn on short final for 04 or did you just tilt the camera???
Tower ranger: do you have to co-ordinate an early left turn off 04 with Aldergrove or not? I've only done it once but it was great fun.
Tower ranger: do you have to co-ordinate an early left turn off 04 with Aldergrove or not? I've only done it once but it was great fun.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 671
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From: UAE
Hi Doug,
Yes almost everything we do IFR is co-ordinated with AA. If they have anything on left base for 25 or departing 07 its not a great idea.If we only get 3 thousand foot clearances for our morning outbounds its the quickest way to get them going but Eastern is partly correct, we don`t often get it when he`s on!!
Cool pic Jabberwok, it looks like you may have bust the noise a tad though!! Ha Ha !!
Yes almost everything we do IFR is co-ordinated with AA. If they have anything on left base for 25 or departing 07 its not a great idea.If we only get 3 thousand foot clearances for our morning outbounds its the quickest way to get them going but Eastern is partly correct, we don`t often get it when he`s on!!
Cool pic Jabberwok, it looks like you may have bust the noise a tad though!! Ha Ha !!
