Vueling - "sorry door problem at front, have to tape it off, but it's ok honest "
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With the greatest of respect, there is something mildly pathetic about "Professional" Pilots who constantly attempt to boost their fragile egos by making derogatory remarks about passengers (sorry, "Self Loading Freight") and anyone who is NOT a Professional Pilot, for example airport screeners.
There are some real ego saving pearlers in various Pprune threads, my favourite being
Just be aware that if you openly display contempt for the travelling public, and "lesser" airline staff, they will one day return the favor, and then when your employer attempts to cut your wages and calls you "glorified bus drivers" you will have no one to turn to.
To put it another way, grow up.
There are some real ego saving pearlers in various Pprune threads, my favourite being
We all know that many of the so called security staff are failed crew. The closest they can get to our game is to feel you up with some trumped up security ploy.
To put it another way, grow up.
Rotate on this!
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"good, because people like you who dont have a clue shouldnt be in here"
Really? Says who, certainly not you a spotty youth. I fly weekly and have been SLF across 5 decades, (ok I was but a babe when I started), and know for a fact that there are aviation professionals, (and yes I know that excludes you), who appreciate the SLF side of the argument being put forward.
I know my place, I don't post on tech issues or other topics/threads where I have no valid contribution to make and I suggest you do likewise.
Really? Says who, certainly not you a spotty youth. I fly weekly and have been SLF across 5 decades, (ok I was but a babe when I started), and know for a fact that there are aviation professionals, (and yes I know that excludes you), who appreciate the SLF side of the argument being put forward.
I know my place, I don't post on tech issues or other topics/threads where I have no valid contribution to make and I suggest you do likewise.
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Really? Says who, certainly not you a spotty youth. I fly weekly and have been SLF across 5 decades, (ok I was but a babe when I started), and know for a fact that there are aviation professionals, (and yes I know that excludes you), who appreciate the SLF side of the argument being put forward.
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.... mind you there are one or two who drop in looking for a fight, but you soon learn to pop them into your “ignore list” ….
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Quote; "RyanAir has a very simple system... they just drop the tables in front of the seats they don't want people to sit it when the a/c isn't full"
Slightly off topic but....... isn't there a placard that states that tray tables must be stowed for take off / landing. Is it really OK to overide this, and on whose authority, and have tables out and potentially flapping around in these flight phases? Or is it the case that the tables are only out for whilst boarding in progress?
As for the door, as an engineer I have taken the decision on the basis of the MEL in conjuction with flt ops / maintrol to lock doors out and redistribute pax load. Never had to ask the captain though, only made him and the FSM aware of the situation.
Slightly off topic but....... isn't there a placard that states that tray tables must be stowed for take off / landing. Is it really OK to overide this, and on whose authority, and have tables out and potentially flapping around in these flight phases? Or is it the case that the tables are only out for whilst boarding in progress?
As for the door, as an engineer I have taken the decision on the basis of the MEL in conjuction with flt ops / maintrol to lock doors out and redistribute pax load. Never had to ask the captain though, only made him and the FSM aware of the situation.
Last edited by Tom Sawyer; 12th Jun 2007 at 22:30. Reason: Highlight quote.
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Tom Sawyer,
Just two quick answers, since I'm not an expert....
- I doubt leaving the tables down in a row of empty seats constitutes a safety risk.
- I just observed it as a simple and nifty idea; I didn't look if they actually flipped up the tables after boarding, at the last few minutes before take-off. They may have done so.
Just two quick answers, since I'm not an expert....
- I doubt leaving the tables down in a row of empty seats constitutes a safety risk.
- I just observed it as a simple and nifty idea; I didn't look if they actually flipped up the tables after boarding, at the last few minutes before take-off. They may have done so.
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How would these people feel if we went to there work and started telling them what is and isnt allowed even though we dont have a b**dy clue.
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I don't think any one has pointed out that this is a comunication issue.
Lets face it, if there is any sort of tech problem, the Pax want an Indiana Jones up the front to reunite them in one peice with the old terra'cotta. If you have a problem like this, be careful in your use of language (particularly non-first) and do your PA standing in the Cabin in front of your adoring public!
Vuelling - Pay peanuts - get monkeys.
Lets face it, if there is any sort of tech problem, the Pax want an Indiana Jones up the front to reunite them in one peice with the old terra'cotta. If you have a problem like this, be careful in your use of language (particularly non-first) and do your PA standing in the Cabin in front of your adoring public!
Vuelling - Pay peanuts - get monkeys.
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Learn from the wise
There is defineatly a greater group of educated intelligent and wise pilots who love to impart knowledge and im sure that any non pilot could spend hours listening to.Then there are intelligent pilots who are not born to teach and will with irritation lament the "non informed".Its just human nature and its fun to observe as all mankind wants to voice his or her "educated opinion"
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Bedside Manner.
Dogma is right, this is a communication skills issue and if it were a doctor we would criticize his "Bedside Manner". Doctors have to explain the issues and put the patient at ease, I guess for you guys it is the same.
Is "how to talk to passengers" specifically called out as a component of pilot training, and could anyone actually fail to qualify on the basis of being a dissaster at it? Based on this thread I guess the answer to the last part is "No"
Is "how to talk to passengers" specifically called out as a component of pilot training, and could anyone actually fail to qualify on the basis of being a dissaster at it? Based on this thread I guess the answer to the last part is "No"
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I was just having one of my occasional wanderings through this forum and saw this thread. I was on a BA flight many moons ago where the Captain informed us that those sitting on the right would probably notice that there was a piece of wing missing but that it wouldn't affect the aircraft's ability to fly safely. It was a useful bit of information which put minds at rest. Providing proper information DOES help. I have good memories of a certain BA 747 captain who gave an excellent welcome speech with lots of detail - some humorous, about the forthcoming flight, which included the immortal words "We will be flying over xxxxxx so there WILL be some turbulence" Lots of giggles all round and passengers more prepared for it. That must have been the only time I flew back from Oz and had a turbulence-free trip from Singapore to Heathrow. I have a feeling even the weather did as it was told for him.
Probably the same as I used to when faced with Health / Midwifery / Childcare amateurs trying to tell me how to do my job. Most times I would smile sweetly and either ignore them, or, if what they were suggesting was downright dangerous, calmly disabuse them of their daft ideas. 
How would these people feel if we went to there work and started telling them what is and isnt allowed even though we dont have a b**dy clue
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Surely the PA, if quoted accurately, would hardly reassure the pax?
"A safety problem with the door?"
I think a little more detail would have been more appropriate rather than leave pax thinking that the door might open in flight!
"A safety problem with the door?"
I think a little more detail would have been more appropriate rather than leave pax thinking that the door might open in flight!
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Tom sawyer
Well you might have done that, just like the captain would have wanted. Only he still needs to check the MEL that you have done it correctly. I guess the captain was very happy indeed since it saved him from delays.
On the other hand if he did not want you to lock out the doors, you would need to change everything back. No matter what ops/maintenance says. Its his airplane.
As for the door, as an engineer I have taken the decision on the basis of the MEL in conjuction with flt ops / maintrol to lock doors out and redistribute pax load. Never had to ask the captain though, only made him and the FSM aware of the situation.
On the other hand if he did not want you to lock out the doors, you would need to change everything back. No matter what ops/maintenance says. Its his airplane.
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Flash
I have never had a captain inspect my work to see if its done correctly, thats because I am a licenced aircraft engineer who is given the authority via EASA and my maintenance organisation to issue a certificate of release to service.
I do though when required discuss with crew what deffects we have had and what MEL items have been applied. One of the most important parts of my job is comunication. Debriefing an incomming crew to get all the facts of the deffect they have entered and briefing the outbound crew as to what has been worked on the aircraft.
A captain is perfectley entitled to refuse any aircraft but will need good cause if it has been released by a licenced engineer following legaly issued documents.
I work with crews every day of my working life and see their professionalism in action, they see mine. I come across crews who are idiots some times but then I come across engineers, dispatchers etc who are also idiots.
I would say that an atribute of good captain is somone who knows he does not know it all but knows where to look or who to talk to when he needs to.
I have never had a captain inspect my work to see if its done correctly, thats because I am a licenced aircraft engineer who is given the authority via EASA and my maintenance organisation to issue a certificate of release to service.
I do though when required discuss with crew what deffects we have had and what MEL items have been applied. One of the most important parts of my job is comunication. Debriefing an incomming crew to get all the facts of the deffect they have entered and briefing the outbound crew as to what has been worked on the aircraft.
A captain is perfectley entitled to refuse any aircraft but will need good cause if it has been released by a licenced engineer following legaly issued documents.
I work with crews every day of my working life and see their professionalism in action, they see mine. I come across crews who are idiots some times but then I come across engineers, dispatchers etc who are also idiots.
I would say that an atribute of good captain is somone who knows he does not know it all but knows where to look or who to talk to when he needs to.
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Flash, you said "On the other hand if he did not want you to lock out the doors, you would need to change everything back. No matter what ops/maintenance says. Its his airplane."
I don't really think you will find many Captains who would go against what a Licenced Engineer has done. If it's broke and it can't be fixed - that's it mate. No matter what the Captain wants, until the aircraft has it's Certificate of Release to Service signed by an engineer it ain't going anywhere. Hence, this is where the MEL steps in, we have a chat with the pilots and come to some agreement based within the limitations allowed and everyone (well nearly everyone) is happy.
As FIMbar says, if the plane is offered for service in accordance with the MEL, the Captain can still refuse to take it with due consideration to other defects the aircraft may have, destination, weather etc. but it certainly isn't his airplane. It's the banks normally.
I don't really think you will find many Captains who would go against what a Licenced Engineer has done. If it's broke and it can't be fixed - that's it mate. No matter what the Captain wants, until the aircraft has it's Certificate of Release to Service signed by an engineer it ain't going anywhere. Hence, this is where the MEL steps in, we have a chat with the pilots and come to some agreement based within the limitations allowed and everyone (well nearly everyone) is happy.
As FIMbar says, if the plane is offered for service in accordance with the MEL, the Captain can still refuse to take it with due consideration to other defects the aircraft may have, destination, weather etc. but it certainly isn't his airplane. It's the banks normally.
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I was wondering how long it would be before the engineers would have to pitch in, to stop everyone talking b#ll*cks.
Guys, let's leave them to it and we'll carry on quietly with our business. Oh, and when it comes the MEL, let me explain the loop dear ppruners: Captain, Engineer, ...errr, thats it folks, we'll take it from there.
Guys, let's leave them to it and we'll carry on quietly with our business. Oh, and when it comes the MEL, let me explain the loop dear ppruners: Captain, Engineer, ...errr, thats it folks, we'll take it from there.
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Guys I know that no captain in his right mind would go against the advice of a licenced engineer.
But still before accepting the aircraft like that, the captain must satisfy himself that everything has been done according to the regulations. e.g. having a look at the MEL. Just like pilots engineers make mistakes as well.
The captain is still responsible.
I have seen captains check the MEL, even after an engineer said it was OK. "Honest." Just to make sure everything was dealt with. Not because he didn't trust the engineer.
But still before accepting the aircraft like that, the captain must satisfy himself that everything has been done according to the regulations. e.g. having a look at the MEL. Just like pilots engineers make mistakes as well.
The captain is still responsible.
I have seen captains check the MEL, even after an engineer said it was OK. "Honest." Just to make sure everything was dealt with. Not because he didn't trust the engineer.
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Well of course Captains check the MEL.
It's a document to be used by flight crew and engineers.
Each MEL reference has specific maintenance and operational restrictions which are applicable to both of us. For me, it may be a simple thing like placing a sticker somewhere or locking a valve closed, and for the crew a speed restriction, pax limit or just to ignore certain messages.
We work together to minimise mistakes, it's a team thing.
It's a document to be used by flight crew and engineers.
Each MEL reference has specific maintenance and operational restrictions which are applicable to both of us. For me, it may be a simple thing like placing a sticker somewhere or locking a valve closed, and for the crew a speed restriction, pax limit or just to ignore certain messages.
We work together to minimise mistakes, it's a team thing.