Vulcan to the Skies.
Oldlag53, I am becoming increasingly curious as to what your problem actually is.
You argue that Area 51 know more about the CAA position with regard to complex aircraft than the Vulcan to the sky people because Area 51 have experience. Not with Vulcans they don't. The only ones with experience dealing with CAA regarding Vulcans are the same people whose views you dismiss.
You describe as utter rubbish the statement that 'given that all the required criteria are met a permit to fly will be issued when required.' and argue that the REAL situation is that 'There will be strict written criteria set down, which the project will have to pass to the letter, and then, only then, will any approval be forthcoming.' What exactly is the difference?
Incidentally the reason the Lighting and Buccanneer only fly in South Africa does not alter that fact that organisational support (of the type achieved for the Vulcan) would be required for them to fly in the UK.
You argue that Area 51 know more about the CAA position with regard to complex aircraft than the Vulcan to the sky people because Area 51 have experience. Not with Vulcans they don't. The only ones with experience dealing with CAA regarding Vulcans are the same people whose views you dismiss.
You describe as utter rubbish the statement that 'given that all the required criteria are met a permit to fly will be issued when required.' and argue that the REAL situation is that 'There will be strict written criteria set down, which the project will have to pass to the letter, and then, only then, will any approval be forthcoming.' What exactly is the difference?
Incidentally the reason the Lighting and Buccanneer only fly in South Africa does not alter that fact that organisational support (of the type achieved for the Vulcan) would be required for them to fly in the UK.
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Just A Thought......
Just a thought. Given the excellent work VTTS and their allies are doing to bring the Vulcan to flight status and let's assume that they will succeed in getting her a permit to fly and onto the airshow circuit. Why don't they (VTTS) and the other UK ex mil-jet operators get together and form some sort of co-operative venture to get more complex types a permit to fly. They could follow the same proven procedures used by VTTS and, in doing so, could gain the confidence of the CAA and give them the necessary evidence that the proper procedures etc, etc are being followed.
Now I know that oldlag53 and the like will shoot me down in flames saying it is far more complex an issue than my naive response covers - I know that there is far more to this, so please don't jump down my throat. It is the principle that i'm getting at - not the detail of the thing. Indeed, for all I know the operators on the UK circuit may be already co-operating for all I know. As I said, just a thought...
WJMcP
Now I know that oldlag53 and the like will shoot me down in flames saying it is far more complex an issue than my naive response covers - I know that there is far more to this, so please don't jump down my throat. It is the principle that i'm getting at - not the detail of the thing. Indeed, for all I know the operators on the UK circuit may be already co-operating for all I know. As I said, just a thought...
WJMcP
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From my understanding , the only reason that this Vulcan was given the criteria to get it airworthy, is because since it was grounded , it has still been serviced as per its original service schedule BAE/AVRO
All other aircraft that were retired , sat around for a long period of
time and had a lapse in the maint. And on that basis they will not be given a permit to fly , because this Vulcan has always had some sort of approved maint , the CAA cannot automaticly refuse. But of course they will add in alot of extra criteria to cover themselves before they will allow it to get in the air again. From what I have read about it and spoken to people involved , this aircraft should be flying again , as long as they get the money together to get it airworthy
Can anybody find out if this maint on the Vulcan since being grounded, is the reason why CAA will entertain the idea of it flying again?
All other aircraft that were retired , sat around for a long period of
time and had a lapse in the maint. And on that basis they will not be given a permit to fly , because this Vulcan has always had some sort of approved maint , the CAA cannot automaticly refuse. But of course they will add in alot of extra criteria to cover themselves before they will allow it to get in the air again. From what I have read about it and spoken to people involved , this aircraft should be flying again , as long as they get the money together to get it airworthy
Can anybody find out if this maint on the Vulcan since being grounded, is the reason why CAA will entertain the idea of it flying again?
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Lot of comments about the Buccaneer so you will be intrested to know the last airworthy Buccaneer in the UK have been given a permit and is undergoing maintance now for return to flight status and the bit about approved maintence is rubbish as if it was true half the Spitfires flying whould have never been issused permits
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...the CAA cannot automaticly refuse. But of course they will add in alot of extra criteria to cover themselves before they will allow it to get in the air again. . .
. . .Can anybody find out if this maint on the Vulcan since being grounded, is the reason why CAA will entertain the idea of it flying again?
. . .Can anybody find out if this maint on the Vulcan since being grounded, is the reason why CAA will entertain the idea of it flying again?
For those interested in what the UK CAA can and cannot do, visit the UK CAA Airworthiness Regulation Group's web pages and download CAP 632 - which sets out the rules pertaining to operating former military aircraft with a MTWA greater than 2730 Kg or piston engine with more than 800 hp or a turbine or turbo jet engine. Its only 196 kb (50 Pages) so it won't take long and its written in clear language that even pilots can understand.
The CAA can and will withold a Permit to Fly from any aircraft that cannot be demonstrated to meet all of the criteria set out in CAP 632.
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It was our hope that restoration work would have been concluded in time to enable XH558 to participate in the Falklands commemorative events, but we have had a delay in the return of one set of critical-to-flight components from overhaul.
Unfortunately, it is therefore doubtful that XH558 will be flying in time for the Falklands commemoration on 17th June. However all other aspects of the work are proceeding to plan. For example, this week will see the Vulcan's landing gear being reinstalled and the aircraft returned to her wheels.
When we know more about the length and impact of the delay, which will hopefully be short, we will provide a further update.
Dr Robert Pleming
CEO, VTST
Unfortunately, it is therefore doubtful that XH558 will be flying in time for the Falklands commemoration on 17th June. However all other aspects of the work are proceeding to plan. For example, this week will see the Vulcan's landing gear being reinstalled and the aircraft returned to her wheels.
When we know more about the length and impact of the delay, which will hopefully be short, we will provide a further update.
Dr Robert Pleming
CEO, VTST
VTST, stop making naive announcements and start being realistic. Your attitude at the moment is a insult to all the people who have raised funds for the project. And to have the barefaced cheek to blame one poor outside supplier for not making it to the flypast is staggering.
" Oh yes, people, honest, we would have been there only Bloggs and Co were late with the left falangie..." Yea, right, that's all it was.
All the above, of course, is just In My Humble Opinion...
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.......... a delay in the return of one set of critical-to-flight components from overhaul.
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Oldlag,
I think you need to chill a bit old fellow
It was always going to be a push to get the beast ready for the flypast up The Mall. Yes, there is a great deal of emotion associated with the Falklands commemorations and with the Vulcan project as a whole. The a/c will fly - of that I am sure. But if they miss a couple of flypasts and airshows in the process, then so be it. However, the most important thing is to get it right and to do so will take as much time as is needed. It will fly when it's ready to fly - end of story. If that takes a few more weeks or months, then so be it.
VTTS, keep up the good work - nearly there!
WJMcP
I think you need to chill a bit old fellow
It was always going to be a push to get the beast ready for the flypast up The Mall. Yes, there is a great deal of emotion associated with the Falklands commemorations and with the Vulcan project as a whole. The a/c will fly - of that I am sure. But if they miss a couple of flypasts and airshows in the process, then so be it. However, the most important thing is to get it right and to do so will take as much time as is needed. It will fly when it's ready to fly - end of story. If that takes a few more weeks or months, then so be it. VTTS, keep up the good work - nearly there!
WJMcP
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Just a quick update for those interested, 558 was as of last night back on her feet again and undergoing fuel and electrical system checks, the process watched by many supporters on the net and kept informed by the staff as time allows.
Sad to say the doubt about the flypast down the Mall has been confirmed due too an OEM overrun, but on the whole the project is moving ahead very quickly indeed with a lot of late nights being put in by the staff.
The only unhappy complaint from the members currently is the position of the webcams though I am certain at least one here will have a tirade of biblical proportions to interest us with.
Sad to say the doubt about the flypast down the Mall has been confirmed due too an OEM overrun, but on the whole the project is moving ahead very quickly indeed with a lot of late nights being put in by the staff.
The only unhappy complaint from the members currently is the position of the webcams though I am certain at least one here will have a tirade of biblical proportions to interest us with.
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Try the web site
...... and while you are there take a look at Dr Pleming's latest, three days ago
...... and while you are there take a look at Dr Pleming's latest, three days ago
But, because of cost escalation (now hopefully contained) we continue to need cash – still some £200 thousand of it; and we need it now! It would be of immense value to this great heritage project if those of you who have yet to support it were to do so today.
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Vulcan XH558 Update
Vulcan XH558 will be rolled out of her hangar THU 21st for the first time since August.
All fuel tanks have now been refitted and will be filled and checked on the pan - weather permitting of course.
All fuel tanks have now been refitted and will be filled and checked on the pan - weather permitting of course.
She is outside!!!
Just checked the live webcam feed at 2.20pm, and there she is, outside....OK, so probably just being fueled up, but its a start!
Lets hope that the last few flight critical items can be delivered soon, and once more, the skies will rumble as 558 gets some daylight under the wheels again, back where she belongs...
Keep the faith, people, she's nearly there.....
Lets hope that the last few flight critical items can be delivered soon, and once more, the skies will rumble as 558 gets some daylight under the wheels again, back where she belongs...
Keep the faith, people, she's nearly there.....
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any more news on this? the website does not have any updates as to test flights, just wondered if any ppruners were "On the inside" so to speaK?
Having made a small donation I receive occasional snail mail updates from the team. Latest, yesterday, was invitation to participate (subject to further donation) in a raffle for viewing places at the first flight. Made clear that it will not be a "public" event for safety etc reasons, though media will be invited. No public announcement until she's been up and landed.
Raffle to be drawn at Bruntingthorpe on 10 July with winners contacted by 'phone.
So one assumes no flight before late next week, but probably soon thereafter?
Raffle to be drawn at Bruntingthorpe on 10 July with winners contacted by 'phone.
So one assumes no flight before late next week, but probably soon thereafter?
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Made clear that it will not be a "public" event for safety etc reasons, though media will be invited. No public announcement until she's been up and landed.
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She will get airborne.
If people are so interested on how well she is going one must not forget they aave a web site and they do try and keep it as up to date at possible. Link removed IAW Site policy
I do understand how keen but frustrated every one is getting, the hope was to be airborne months ago but one cannot rush a lady like this, she has to be 100 per cent before the big thumbs up and away she will hopefully go to show her off.
Lets hope this is the month there are a few of us that have airshows still to come, and one is ours which she is booked into with ten weeks to our show we could be in with a chance as she is running out of shows she was hopeing to be at.
All the best for the restoration team keep up the good work
I do understand how keen but frustrated every one is getting, the hope was to be airborne months ago but one cannot rush a lady like this, she has to be 100 per cent before the big thumbs up and away she will hopefully go to show her off.
Lets hope this is the month there are a few of us that have airshows still to come, and one is ours which she is booked into with ten weeks to our show we could be in with a chance as she is running out of shows she was hopeing to be at.
All the best for the restoration team keep up the good work
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Spoil Sport!
With a few exceptions granted from on high, links to 'commercial' sites are not allowed on PPRune, and this extends to 'charity' topics too.
AS I said before, the topic is shadowed on AH&N and MIl.
Please restrict this thread to issues which are of interest to 'Spotters' and also we ask folk to 'Google' or whatever their taste is to find a web site.
With a few exceptions granted from on high, links to 'commercial' sites are not allowed on PPRune, and this extends to 'charity' topics too.
AS I said before, the topic is shadowed on AH&N and MIl.
Please restrict this thread to issues which are of interest to 'Spotters' and also we ask folk to 'Google' or whatever their taste is to find a web site.