VFR in commercial jets
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VFR in commercial jets
Hi, excuse me if the question has been answered elsewhere (I did do a search before posting)(and I'm new!)
My question is are airliners such as 737 (any generation) and A320 or bigger allowed/ or able to operate VFR? There would appear to be no reason why not? They have cockpit windows to see out of like a smaller aircraft after all. I know it's not USUAL for these sort of aircraft to fly like this, and it's unlikely to happen at all, but, my question to those who may know, is it possible/ are they allowed/ certified etc ?
Thank you very much in advance to anyone able to answer me
Alister
My question is are airliners such as 737 (any generation) and A320 or bigger allowed/ or able to operate VFR? There would appear to be no reason why not? They have cockpit windows to see out of like a smaller aircraft after all. I know it's not USUAL for these sort of aircraft to fly like this, and it's unlikely to happen at all, but, my question to those who may know, is it possible/ are they allowed/ certified etc ?
Thank you very much in advance to anyone able to answer me
Alister
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A few years ago, not that many, a 747-200F op by a U.S. company got so hacked off waiting for a slot that they filed a VFR plan from EGBB to EBOS.
I have done same route in both directions in a single and the thought of meeting a 74 opposite direction at 2,400 ft under a TMA would certainly have got the adrenalin going
Luckily, a slot came up and they accepted their IFR clearance - phew!
I have done same route in both directions in a single and the thought of meeting a 74 opposite direction at 2,400 ft under a TMA would certainly have got the adrenalin going
Luckily, a slot came up and they accepted their IFR clearance - phew!
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Ajc - technically they are 'allowed' but few operators will encourage it, especially on revenue flights when an IFR plan is available. Sometimes it is a condition of the insurance. 'Able' most certainly.
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I'm not sure how different the rules are in NZ (if at all) but in the UK then yes, any aircraft can operate VFR. Basically the crew have to maintain their own separation from other traffic (depending upon the type of airspace they are flying in, they may or may not be assisted by ATC passing traffic information on other aircraft), and their own separation from terrain. They must also maintain a certain distance from cloud (to assist both the above).
In practice the airlines like to operate cheaply which means flying fast and high; most airways are Class A which means VFR flight is not allowed and everybody is under positive control and separated by ATC.
The only large aircraft that regularly operate under VFR rules (or effectively so) are military types such as Hercules etc, who happily charge around at low levels whilst keeping a very good lookout!
In practice the airlines like to operate cheaply which means flying fast and high; most airways are Class A which means VFR flight is not allowed and everybody is under positive control and separated by ATC.
The only large aircraft that regularly operate under VFR rules (or effectively so) are military types such as Hercules etc, who happily charge around at low levels whilst keeping a very good lookout!
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Thanks very much guys for stopping by to answer a newbie with a question, I appreciate it.
I understand it very unlikely that sort of aircraft would be operated VFR, I was in particular curious if there was a rule stating the aircraft is restricted from operating by such means. And, after your answers, it would appear not as I suspected. I guess I was thinking perhaps the engineering staff of a particular airline might conduct a service on the aircraft, and then complete a few VFR circuits of the airfield to test their work was a particular example that came to mind. Or perhaps an airline showing off their new aircraft with a few low level circuits of their hub city, that sort of example. Obviously with passengers for scheduled flights IFR is ideal and always used, but just curious to see if VFR wasn't banned completely, when special circumstances might require otherwise
Thanks again.
I understand it very unlikely that sort of aircraft would be operated VFR, I was in particular curious if there was a rule stating the aircraft is restricted from operating by such means. And, after your answers, it would appear not as I suspected. I guess I was thinking perhaps the engineering staff of a particular airline might conduct a service on the aircraft, and then complete a few VFR circuits of the airfield to test their work was a particular example that came to mind. Or perhaps an airline showing off their new aircraft with a few low level circuits of their hub city, that sort of example. Obviously with passengers for scheduled flights IFR is ideal and always used, but just curious to see if VFR wasn't banned completely, when special circumstances might require otherwise
Thanks again.
A few years back, I was out in my garden (West Berks, UK) one sunny Summer Sunday afternoon, when I heard the sound of a heavy jet approaching, but low (we see lots of TMA arrs/deps etc around here, but the base of CAS is around FL45-55 depending upon exactly which way you look).
Seconds later a United 767-300 came into view and passed W to E at (I estimate) around 2000'.
Ran for the scanner, and found him talking to Farnborough LARS.
He was routing back to LHR VFR after a flypast at an airshow at Middle Wallop (so non-rev I assume). Had to be given climb E of Reading to get into the pattern!
Seconds later a United 767-300 came into view and passed W to E at (I estimate) around 2000'.
Ran for the scanner, and found him talking to Farnborough LARS.
He was routing back to LHR VFR after a flypast at an airshow at Middle Wallop (so non-rev I assume). Had to be given climb E of Reading to get into the pattern!
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When I woz at school many years ago, about 5 miles NW of Dunsfold, we used to see 707s, Comets and 727s, etc, transiting from Gatwick to Dan-Air's maintenance base at Lasham. I'm pretty sure they were often VFR in good weather and talking to Farnborough Radar. Generally between 1500 to 2500' I'd say... looked and sounded great, particularly if I was in a maths class! Anyone own up to flying (or controlling) these flights?
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[quote=ajc_nz;3063505]Hi, excuse me if the question has been answered elsewhere (I did do a search before posting)(and I'm new!)
My question is are airliners such as 737 (any generation) and A320 or bigger allowed/ or able to operate VFR? There would appear to be no reason why not?
some years back i was co-jo on a cessna citation from XXXX to manchester. the boss was in a hurry to a meeting....and guess what...you know ...you've heard it before...those words its bad to start with...'' november XXXXX...we do'nt appear to have a flight plan for you..'' i just know i'm going to have a bad day.
luckily for me the owner had filed not me.
so to speed things up i asked ground for VFR clearance and that they could give us climb as soon as the clearance came through
. well the young controller just could'nt het his head around the idea that a citation could get VFR clearance at 2000'....
( mind you he would have been within his rights to say it should be filed the usual 1 hour beforehand so i would'nt have been any better anyway...!!! but he did he best and we got away IFR...in 15 minutes..!!
so we never got to test vfr AT 2000'..!!
the dean.
My question is are airliners such as 737 (any generation) and A320 or bigger allowed/ or able to operate VFR? There would appear to be no reason why not?
some years back i was co-jo on a cessna citation from XXXX to manchester. the boss was in a hurry to a meeting....and guess what...you know ...you've heard it before...those words its bad to start with...'' november XXXXX...we do'nt appear to have a flight plan for you..'' i just know i'm going to have a bad day.
luckily for me the owner had filed not me. so to speed things up i asked ground for VFR clearance and that they could give us climb as soon as the clearance came through
. well the young controller just could'nt het his head around the idea that a citation could get VFR clearance at 2000'.... ( mind you he would have been within his rights to say it should be filed the usual 1 hour beforehand so i would'nt have been any better anyway...!!! but he did he best and we got away IFR...in 15 minutes..!! so we never got to test vfr AT 2000'..!! the dean.
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A few years ago took a Go-fly 737 from STN to SEN for a new orange paint job late at night. Had to file a SID out of STN until we cleared the airways then it was VFR to SEN at 2500-3000' - great fun!
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Still do. Available to approved operators with prior arrangement. IFR surveillance radar approach, IFR self position, IFR visual approach or VFR, normally via Farnborough Approach Radar when open. Still occasionally big jet movements QLA-SEN via MiG Alley, OCK 2 point 4.
Also during mid-seventies UK ATC industrial action air transport movements would fly VFR in uncontrolled airspace and join airways with Jersey IFR. Luton flights would fly VFR via WOD at 2 point 4, over the IOW then climb to 190. Monarch and Redcoat Brits, Britannia 73s and the like.
Also during mid-seventies UK ATC industrial action air transport movements would fly VFR in uncontrolled airspace and join airways with Jersey IFR. Luton flights would fly VFR via WOD at 2 point 4, over the IOW then climb to 190. Monarch and Redcoat Brits, Britannia 73s and the like.
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Many many years ago when the French were being even more impossible than normal. A Britannia 737 got stuck at Manchester and was required at East Midlands, couldn't get a slot between all the tightly packed traffic from EDI, GLA, NCL etc so the ferry went special VFR not above 1,500' out of the TMA, bet the crew were still grinning at Castle Don.
Another amusing event was the BofB Memorial flight and Sally B leaving Barton air show southbound down the low level route frightening the bejabbers out of some poor BR train jockey driving heading north
Be lucky
David
Another amusing event was the BofB Memorial flight and Sally B leaving Barton air show southbound down the low level route frightening the bejabbers out of some poor BR train jockey driving heading north
Be lucky
David
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Many many years ago when the French were being even more impossible than normal. A Britannia 737 got stuck at Manchester and was required at East Midlands, couldn't get a slot between all the tightly packed traffic from EDI, GLA, NCL etc so the ferry went special VFR not above 1,500' out of the TMA, bet the crew were still grinning at Castle Don.
Another amusing event was the BofB Memorial flight and Sally B leaving Barton air show southbound down the low level route frightening the bejabbers out of some poor BR train jockey driving heading north
Be lucky
David
Another amusing event was the BofB Memorial flight and Sally B leaving Barton air show southbound down the low level route frightening the bejabbers out of some poor BR train jockey driving heading north
Be lucky
David
of a 737 at 1,500' hahahaha I know it would have been a an awesome site and sound 
to the crew on that one!Http://www.ferrypilotservice.com
