EGLL very short finals in the 80s ?
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BN2 Operation
>I recall watching one of their super squat DC9s (a -10 or -15 I think, someone will know) making an approach to 23 or so I thought. It then turned final somewhere over Cranford with somewhere between 1 and 2d to run; and of course was beautifully painted on to 28R.
>Spectacular.
Jumpseating in the late-eighties, I saw a similar type turn finals at (estimated)less than a mile to 09L. The comment from the captain I was with - "Bonkers - far too many eyes watching down here to do that" or similar.
Maybe both the same aviator, who ought to have gone crop-dusting instead.
r
>Spectacular.
Jumpseating in the late-eighties, I saw a similar type turn finals at (estimated)less than a mile to 09L. The comment from the captain I was with - "Bonkers - far too many eyes watching down here to do that" or similar.
Maybe both the same aviator, who ought to have gone crop-dusting instead.
r
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Living in Heston (just north of the extended centre line 27R) during the 70's & 80's the British Midland Viscount then DC9 visual approaches were a sight to behold. In from the north with a rate one low level turn onto finals 28R (as it was in those days) well inside the OM, probably about 1.5-2d final. (The outer marker was across the road from St. Mary's Church, Osterley).
Best I ever saw was an attempt by a BA L1011 to switch from 28R to 28L at about 2d to the threshold (sort of Master Robert to Hatton Cross). Didn't quite pull it off and had to go round. I saw many switched from one runway to the other at the OM's with some interesting results.
Best I ever saw was an attempt by a BA L1011 to switch from 28R to 28L at about 2d to the threshold (sort of Master Robert to Hatton Cross). Didn't quite pull it off and had to go round. I saw many switched from one runway to the other at the OM's with some interesting results.
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I too grew up in Heston in the 70s and 80s - just north of the 27R localiser; hence this sorry obsession that plagues me to this day...
Also uncanny that we post the same story about the 'sports' approaches flown by the BD DC9 crews during that time. I was once PAX on a BA 737-200 that did something similar and started its turn to final over the TA centre at the top of New Heston Rd - must have been less than 1.5d once established. Very confusing from the inside!
Yes the switches from 28R to 28L (and vice versa) were spectacular and often carried out at less than 2d - Tridents on Shuttle flights being the most common repeat offenders as I remember; presumably to get themselves closer to the appropriate stand at the other end.
Also uncanny that we post the same story about the 'sports' approaches flown by the BD DC9 crews during that time. I was once PAX on a BA 737-200 that did something similar and started its turn to final over the TA centre at the top of New Heston Rd - must have been less than 1.5d once established. Very confusing from the inside!
Yes the switches from 28R to 28L (and vice versa) were spectacular and often carried out at less than 2d - Tridents on Shuttle flights being the most common repeat offenders as I remember; presumably to get themselves closer to the appropriate stand at the other end.
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<<Tridents on Shuttle flights being the most common repeat offenders as I remember; presumably to get themselves closer to the appropriate stand at the other end.>>
I'm amazed that someone with a knowledge of Heathrow ops could write such a thing! No aircraft type can be an "offender" because the only reason a flight switches runways is on the explicit instructions of ATC. Because of the noise abatement rules they have to have a very good reason for doing so.
As I've said before, I worked at Heathrow in the 70s/80s/90s and I do not recall any jet aircraft turning on to final approach so close as some people claim. 1 mile from touchdown on 27R is just about over Berkeley Avenue, Cranford and the aircraft would be at 300ft which is chancing one's arm just a shade in a modern jet!! I'm not saying that it never happened, but I never saw it.
Runway switches were not unusual and I can recall only a handful of go-arounds resulting from a late switch. Switching at 4 miles out - approximately where the OMs used to be - should be no big deal and on easterlies ATC would often switch T5 landers to 10R to save them taxying time if the opportunity arose.
I'm amazed that someone with a knowledge of Heathrow ops could write such a thing! No aircraft type can be an "offender" because the only reason a flight switches runways is on the explicit instructions of ATC. Because of the noise abatement rules they have to have a very good reason for doing so.
As I've said before, I worked at Heathrow in the 70s/80s/90s and I do not recall any jet aircraft turning on to final approach so close as some people claim. 1 mile from touchdown on 27R is just about over Berkeley Avenue, Cranford and the aircraft would be at 300ft which is chancing one's arm just a shade in a modern jet!! I'm not saying that it never happened, but I never saw it.
Runway switches were not unusual and I can recall only a handful of go-arounds resulting from a late switch. Switching at 4 miles out - approximately where the OMs used to be - should be no big deal and on easterlies ATC would often switch T5 landers to 10R to save them taxying time if the opportunity arose.
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I used the word 'offender' tongue in cheek, but there was a definite correlation between the 'SHT' callsigns and switching :-)
Ref the Midland 9s - I really do appreciate it's hard to judge any kind of a/c position accurately without the requisite equipment; but in the absence of home made DFTIs, seeing them west of Heston (i.e overhead Cranford) in the turn would have to do. I remember being convinced they were approaching 23
Having said all that, you are very comfortably more qualified than me to know!
Ref the Midland 9s - I really do appreciate it's hard to judge any kind of a/c position accurately without the requisite equipment; but in the absence of home made DFTIs, seeing them west of Heston (i.e overhead Cranford) in the turn would have to do. I remember being convinced they were approaching 23
Having said all that, you are very comfortably more qualified than me to know!
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EGKK
In the old days I was lined up on the westerly runway, with two pistion twins and a 1-11.
The take off clearance was one twin early left, one early right, and the 1-11 rw heading.
Perfectly normal.
A visual base normally suggested that a turn INSIDE the termianal building was expected.
An early right to the north after take off usually resulted in the tower commenting on our smart hair cuts.
Did a "early right" in a lear 35, with similar comments.
Our reply was along the lines of "is that todays paper on your desk"....
or even....... finish your coffee....
Returning from the night mail runs, over the LON VOR at I think 80, and then request a visual right base at LGW, with a bet as to if we could make it with idle power from the LON.
Almost forgot: Very windy night 23 in use in LHR, all LGW diverting. In PA23, we landed fine. High speed taxi way. Perfectly normal. The big tin can bwho was next in sequence was rather disapointed when
told how we had landed.....
those were the days....
The take off clearance was one twin early left, one early right, and the 1-11 rw heading.
Perfectly normal.
A visual base normally suggested that a turn INSIDE the termianal building was expected.
An early right to the north after take off usually resulted in the tower commenting on our smart hair cuts.
Did a "early right" in a lear 35, with similar comments.
Our reply was along the lines of "is that todays paper on your desk"....
or even....... finish your coffee....
Returning from the night mail runs, over the LON VOR at I think 80, and then request a visual right base at LGW, with a bet as to if we could make it with idle power from the LON.
Almost forgot: Very windy night 23 in use in LHR, all LGW diverting. In PA23, we landed fine. High speed taxi way. Perfectly normal. The big tin can bwho was next in sequence was rather disapointed when
told how we had landed.....
those were the days....
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I seem to remember these approaches into LHR aswell during the 80's and early 90's. They were mainly BA B757's. I lived in Southall, not too far from the gasworks at the time. They looked as if they were over ealing. I also recall a few that appeared to come over my house aswell but were not following the 23 extended line. I think I recall B757's, DC9's, B737's and MD80's flying these approaches. I always assumed they were aircraft being slotted in after a go around. I dont think i've seen the approaches performed for over 14yrs or so.
