Boeing General
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From: Here and there
Boeing to buy Airbus ?
With The current A380 snafu (Delays etc...), The A350 program is in jeopardy thus Airbus could be in severe financial trouble ( I doubt A will make any profits from the A380) the only logical recourse would be a Boeing-Airbus alliance and we will end up with a truly giant (not A380) any Thoughts ?
Last edited by Melax; 6th October 2006 at 15:09.
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From: Choroni, sometimes
With The current A380 snafu (Delays etc...), The A350 program is in jeopardy thus Airbus could be in severe financial trouble ( I doubt A will make any profits from the A380) the only logical rcourse would be a Boeing-Airbus alliance and we will end up with a truly giant (not A380) any Thoughts ?
Yes, and Chirac, Blair and Merkel will become US Governors.
Joined: Jan 2001
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
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From: Clarty Waters, UK
Actually, a more likely outcome would be several european governments re-financing EADS. Or maybe allowing the Russians to invest. C'mon..... the whole point about Airbus is that they are a European champion. Their prime purpose in life is to try and out-do the Americans, not to surrender to them....
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: ¯\(°_o)/¯
lol
lol bush alredy knows where osama is, as stated in a CIA report leaked by an ex CIA agent. no im not joking 
i think airbus will get ver it to be honest, with profit from a380, depending if EK decide to get only 20 a380s and invest in the 747, from what i heard.
but hey, who knows, good luck to airbus anyways.
regards
Hamid
i think airbus will get ver it to be honest, with profit from a380, depending if EK decide to get only 20 a380s and invest in the 747, from what i heard.
but hey, who knows, good luck to airbus anyways.
regards
Hamid
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: france
With The current A380 snafu (Delays etc...), The A350 program is in jeopardy thus Airbus could be in severe financial trouble ( I doubt A will make any profits from the A380) the only logical rcourse would be a Boeing-Airbus alliance and we will end up with a truly giant (not A380) any Thoughts ?
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Chabanais, France
Way, way back when the idea of a very large aircraft, (VLA), was first discussed both Airbus and Boeing set out their stall. Boeing did a market survey of their customers and soon realised that the required market for such an airframe simply wasn't there in commercial numbers. Airbus continued to push for a VLA project so Boeing offered them a consortium to spread the cost/risk. Airbus turned this offer down and said they would go head to head with Boeing on a VLA project.
Boeing, having properly surveyed their market, said "OK" and withdrew from the competition.
Airbus originally need 269 sold airframes to break even on the A380, this was way before delays and discounts to get the order book moving were properly considered. Right now with the extent of delay and the extent of penalty payments due, added to the extra costs of product development over and above budget then the A380 will need to sell between 500 and 600 just to break even.
The market simply isn't there. The airlines will happily accept the A380, in limited numbers, to fill a niche market, but that is all and they will want it properly supported, as per contract.
The A380 was intended as a B747 replacement with similar market share but that replacement is the B777 with all it's variants and those Airbus 340 that can compete. The A380 will never exceed fifty aircraft in any one company, unlike the B747-400 which exceeded 40 to 50 in quite a few companies.
The A380 is a dead duck and may well take Airbus down with it.
(All said before, a year or two ago, on these very same forums, no recent events could have influenced these predictions).
Boeing, having properly surveyed their market, said "OK" and withdrew from the competition.
Airbus originally need 269 sold airframes to break even on the A380, this was way before delays and discounts to get the order book moving were properly considered. Right now with the extent of delay and the extent of penalty payments due, added to the extra costs of product development over and above budget then the A380 will need to sell between 500 and 600 just to break even.
The market simply isn't there. The airlines will happily accept the A380, in limited numbers, to fill a niche market, but that is all and they will want it properly supported, as per contract.
The A380 was intended as a B747 replacement with similar market share but that replacement is the B777 with all it's variants and those Airbus 340 that can compete. The A380 will never exceed fifty aircraft in any one company, unlike the B747-400 which exceeded 40 to 50 in quite a few companies.
The A380 is a dead duck and may well take Airbus down with it.
(All said before, a year or two ago, on these very same forums, no recent events could have influenced these predictions).
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Colorado
It would be a shame if Airbus collapses or is severly downsized because of this. Head to head competition always leads to better products.
I have always thought the A380 was a marketing adventure more than anything because EVERYBODY knows (well almost) the "747". Airbus currently doesn't have an Aircraft the everyone worldwide recognizes.
Hence the A380 to make Airbus a household name. My thoughts anyway.
I have always thought the A380 was a marketing adventure more than anything because EVERYBODY knows (well almost) the "747". Airbus currently doesn't have an Aircraft the everyone worldwide recognizes.
Hence the A380 to make Airbus a household name. My thoughts anyway.
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Switzerland, Singapore
A lot of half-truth in these postings.
Boeing had no interest in building a 747-competitor because it had already one. Boeing was able to subsidise its smaller models with the profit of the monopoly-747. It's not the market that is missing, its the missing opportunity for Boeing. So even if Airbus never makes profit with the A380, it still makes more money by selling more of the other models.
Having said this I do agree that the flaws in Airbus' organization and production is embarassing and unprofitable. But not the end of Airbus. People with a longer memory of just a few years know that nearly every new aircraft concept had delays (if I'm correct every single aircraft except the 777).
Dani
Boeing had no interest in building a 747-competitor because it had already one. Boeing was able to subsidise its smaller models with the profit of the monopoly-747. It's not the market that is missing, its the missing opportunity for Boeing. So even if Airbus never makes profit with the A380, it still makes more money by selling more of the other models.
Having said this I do agree that the flaws in Airbus' organization and production is embarassing and unprofitable. But not the end of Airbus. People with a longer memory of just a few years know that nearly every new aircraft concept had delays (if I'm correct every single aircraft except the 777).
Dani
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Ireland
Actually you are all wrong.. The fact is that Ryanair are planning on buying boeing and based on the fact that they have recently bought aer lingus they will use their shell company in Ballydehob, West Cork to slowly aquire airbus in order to get better control over future aer lingus orders.
Simple as that really.
Simple as that really.
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From: North of London
Why would Boeing, just on the verge of an amazing comeback, even consider buying Airbus, which as Parabellum says above, is a dead duck? The A350 has been delayed until oil runs out, the A340-600 is not selling compared to the Boeing777 and doesn't come close to specs. You might as well find a hole in the ground and pour the money right in!!! The A380 may well be the airplane that drags Airbus down, such was the desire to build an airplane to outsize the 747 but was there really the case to build it, just because they could?
It would appear Boeing, with it's hot selling 787, massive backlog of 737's and about to be hot-selling 747-8, is doing just fine by itself!!
It would appear Boeing, with it's hot selling 787, massive backlog of 737's and about to be hot-selling 747-8, is doing just fine by itself!!
Thread Starter
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From: Here and there
Why would Boeing, just on the verge of an amazing comeback, even consider buying Airbus, which as Parabellum says above, is a dead duck? The A350 has been delayed until oil runs out, the A340-600 is not selling compared to the Boeing777 and doesn't come close to specs. You might as well find a hole in the ground and pour the money right in!!! The A380 may well be the airplane that drags Airbus down, such was the desire to build an airplane to outsize the 747 but was there really the case to build it, just because they could?
It would appear Boeing, with it's hot selling 787, massive backlog of 737's and about to be hot-selling 747-8, is doing just fine by itself!!
It would appear Boeing, with it's hot selling 787, massive backlog of 737's and about to be hot-selling 747-8, is doing just fine by itself!!
Airbus has some good products .
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Europe-the sunshine side
Studi,you forget one thing ,the 380 is not for every airport.As far as IU know,but I may be wrong,there are only around 15 airports that'll receive the 380.So,a bit far untill they'll replace the 747.
As I've heard,when B buys A they'll do something with the sticks..put some forcefeedback on them or even install a real life yoke...
and also ,put some cables in it,just to make it FBC ,as it should've been....
Just kidding...
As I've heard,when B buys A they'll do something with the sticks..put some forcefeedback on them or even install a real life yoke...
and also ,put some cables in it,just to make it FBC ,as it should've been....
Just kidding...