Safety Demo
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: A land down under
Safety Demo
Wee question - just flew as a passenger on a EGLL/EGPF flight.
Was sitting in row 1 - and heard the senior cc explain to the others that they didn’t need to demo the life jackets on an internal flight as they didn’t go over water and wouldn’t be ditching - so they didn’t!
Ok - fair does, not really going to have been much use on this flight anyway - but I was under the impression that the order said something along the lines of the PIC is to make sure that all pax are briefed on the use of all safety equipment carried on board.
When I think about this though, that taken literally would mean pax should be briefed on first aid kits and fire extinguishers - so think my understanding must be wrong!
Anyway - I fly this route 2 or 3 times a week and always get shown the full thing - question is, was this correct or not?!
Was sitting in row 1 - and heard the senior cc explain to the others that they didn’t need to demo the life jackets on an internal flight as they didn’t go over water and wouldn’t be ditching - so they didn’t!
Ok - fair does, not really going to have been much use on this flight anyway - but I was under the impression that the order said something along the lines of the PIC is to make sure that all pax are briefed on the use of all safety equipment carried on board.
When I think about this though, that taken literally would mean pax should be briefed on first aid kits and fire extinguishers - so think my understanding must be wrong!
Anyway - I fly this route 2 or 3 times a week and always get shown the full thing - question is, was this correct or not?!
Joined: May 2000
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From: Scotland
London to Scotland usually crosses the Lake District where most of the flat open spaces are a bit wet.....! Given the (small) chance of a ditching in a lake, river or whatever, I thought that they always did the lifejacket bit too. Possibly your route that day took you east of the Lakes (but that would put you a bit close to the North Sea....). Just guessing though so you'll have to wait for a CC Pruner to tell us!
Joined: Nov 1999
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From: London, England
Glasgow Flyer,
Don't know who you flew with but my understanding, as an in-charge for the world's favourite, is that you have to carry out the whole demo before each take off. I think this is a CAA requirement.
Hopefully not, but sounds like the crew being lazy.
YD
Don't know who you flew with but my understanding, as an in-charge for the world's favourite, is that you have to carry out the whole demo before each take off. I think this is a CAA requirement.
Hopefully not, but sounds like the crew being lazy.
YD
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: A land down under
Yea - I was quite sure it was always supposed to be demo'ed - and who is to say you won't get an ATC routing out over the Irish sea.
I suspect that, rather than being Lazy, the senior c/c was trying to be a bit kinda over enthusiastic by going to the effort of actually stopping the tape etc.
It wasn't on the worlds favourite airline - and its my understanding that there is only one other airline doing the LL/PF route - so i'll leave that one for you to work out!!
If it was illegal (which I suspect it was) - it may be worth trying to tip him off incase he happens to have a CAA bloke on his next flight!
I suspect that, rather than being Lazy, the senior c/c was trying to be a bit kinda over enthusiastic by going to the effort of actually stopping the tape etc.
It wasn't on the worlds favourite airline - and its my understanding that there is only one other airline doing the LL/PF route - so i'll leave that one for you to work out!!
If it was illegal (which I suspect it was) - it may be worth trying to tip him off incase he happens to have a CAA bloke on his next flight!
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Suffolk
Rules may have changed since I last flew as crew but when I was at Cityflyer Express (a BA Franchise) we had to carry out the full demo on any flights over water. On the LGW-NCL route on the ATR we did not have to include lifejackets in the safety demo but on the RJ100 we had to include the lifejacket on all flights.
My memory is not 100% brilliant, perhaps someone who is ex Cityflyer could confirm this for me!
Rick
My memory is not 100% brilliant, perhaps someone who is ex Cityflyer could confirm this for me!
Rick
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Wor Yerm
Technically you don't have have to give the whole briefing unless your Ops Manual says that you do, only the relevant bits. But you do have to have brief the SLF on seatbelts, emergency exits and if flying above 25,000', supplemental oxygen every time.
Joined: Nov 1999
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From: London, England
They carry lifejackets because it is a legal requirement to do so if they are operating to an airport within 50 nm of the coast and/or they are making approaches over water which may predispose it to a ditching situation.
That's the way I understand it but as I say am ready to be corrected. After all evryday is a school day.
YD
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: A land down under
Curiosity got the better of me - had a look at CAP 393 and, by my reading of it, think they were probably ok to skip this. Para 53(3) reads...
"In the case of an aircraft which is not a seaplane but is required by article 25(13) to carry cabin crew, the commander shall, subject to paragraph (9), take all reasonable steps to ensure that, before the aircraft takes off on a flight to which this article applies on which:
(a) it is intended to proceed beyond gliding distance from land; or
(b) in the event of any emergency occurring during the take-off or during the landing at the intended destination or any likely alternate destination it is reasonably possible that the aircraft would be forced to land onto water;
all passengers are given a demonstration of the method of use of the lifejackets required by or under this Order for the use of passengers."
So, on a flight to Glasgow I assume you wouldn't normally intend flying outwith gliding distance from land and - I wouldn't fancy ditching in the River Clyde on a 23 approach - would be near on impossible to do in any case!
Cheers for the thoughts folks...
(a) it is intended to proceed beyond gliding distance from land; or
(b) in the event of any emergency occurring during the take-off or during the landing at the intended destination or any likely alternate destination it is reasonably possible that the aircraft would be forced to land onto water;
all passengers are given a demonstration of the method of use of the lifejackets required by or under this Order for the use of passengers."
So, on a flight to Glasgow I assume you wouldn't normally intend flying outwith gliding distance from land and - I wouldn't fancy ditching in the River Clyde on a 23 approach - would be near on impossible to do in any case!
Cheers for the thoughts folks...
