A 380 (Merged)
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The B52 bomber had body gear steering long before the B747, not sure about the B47 though. It was used to ensure gear aligned with the runway centreline in cross wind landings - top secret at the time too.
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Originally Posted by parabellum
...... despite airlines like BA and SIA ordering the B777 in large numbers and reducing their B747-400 fleet by equally large numbers.
BA have not reduced their B747-400 fleet numbers at all, I can't speak for SIA.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Sorry Top Bunk you are quite right, I got a basic fact wrong, BA still operating somewhere in the region of 57 aircraft?
Nevertheless, many B747-400 operators have reduced their fleet size in favour of the big twins.
Nothing 'parental' about my post at all, just reiterating points made here on PPRuNe many times before and well over a year ago.
Now, remind me, how many A380 have BA got on order?
Nevertheless, many B747-400 operators have reduced their fleet size in favour of the big twins.
Nothing 'parental' about my post at all, just reiterating points made here on PPRuNe many times before and well over a year ago.
Now, remind me, how many A380 have BA got on order?
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I´m definetely NOT an Airbus "supporter", but if my memory serves correct, the 747 had a lot of teething problems as well. Anyone remembers the phrase 747-Glider ?
And the 47 was discribed as the biggest business gamble ever (well, before the 380). At least is was it for for Boeing and PanAm. Boeing won, PanAm didn´t.
Which would explain why a lot of airlines are reluctant to buy now.
But maybe I go it all wrong...
And the 47 was discribed as the biggest business gamble ever (well, before the 380). At least is was it for for Boeing and PanAm. Boeing won, PanAm didn´t.
Which would explain why a lot of airlines are reluctant to buy now.
But maybe I go it all wrong...
Originally Posted by KATLPAX
AND now fuselage problems....(from Yahoo news)
The European aircraft manufacturer decided in early March to reinforce section 19, the aft cone of the fuselage, Der Spiegel reported.
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As pointed out, don't belive everything you read in the papers...again from Yahoo today...ok to believe this?
PARIS (AFP) - Airbus said that a fault discovered in the fuselage of its A380 super jumbo in the spring has been long since resolved, saying it was "astonished" at how the issue was "blown up" in a German magazine article.
The fault is an "old issue which has been fixed", with the company carrying out "reinforcements on the structure, and there is absolutely nothing abnormal about that," a spokeswoman for the European aerospace group said.
In a pre-release of an article to be published on Monday, German weekly Der Spiegel cited internal company documents outlining problems with "section 19" of the fuselage that were detected during trial flights in March in Toulouse, southern France.
During the development of an aircraft, "there are test flights, data checks, during which things are discovered. That's what the tests are for," the Airbus spokeswoman said.
Investors and Airbus customers are highly sensitive about faults with the flagship project after June's shock announcement of wiring problems and resulting major delays in the delivery of the plane to airlines.
The news prompted a slump in the share price of parent company European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) and the resignation of the head of Airbus and the co-chief executive of EADS.
The double-decker will be the world's biggest ever commercial airliner with space for between 555 to 840 passengers, about 35 percent more than Boeing's 747 jumbo.
The project received a much-needed vote of confidence earlier this week with Singapore Airlines ordering nine more aircraft after Airbus unveiled revamped design plans at the Farnborough International Airshow in southern England.
PARIS (AFP) - Airbus said that a fault discovered in the fuselage of its A380 super jumbo in the spring has been long since resolved, saying it was "astonished" at how the issue was "blown up" in a German magazine article.
The fault is an "old issue which has been fixed", with the company carrying out "reinforcements on the structure, and there is absolutely nothing abnormal about that," a spokeswoman for the European aerospace group said.
In a pre-release of an article to be published on Monday, German weekly Der Spiegel cited internal company documents outlining problems with "section 19" of the fuselage that were detected during trial flights in March in Toulouse, southern France.
During the development of an aircraft, "there are test flights, data checks, during which things are discovered. That's what the tests are for," the Airbus spokeswoman said.
Investors and Airbus customers are highly sensitive about faults with the flagship project after June's shock announcement of wiring problems and resulting major delays in the delivery of the plane to airlines.
The news prompted a slump in the share price of parent company European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) and the resignation of the head of Airbus and the co-chief executive of EADS.
The double-decker will be the world's biggest ever commercial airliner with space for between 555 to 840 passengers, about 35 percent more than Boeing's 747 jumbo.
The project received a much-needed vote of confidence earlier this week with Singapore Airlines ordering nine more aircraft after Airbus unveiled revamped design plans at the Farnborough International Airshow in southern England.
Originally Posted by KATLPAX
As pointed out, don't belive everything you read in the papers...again from Yahoo today...ok to believe this?
Hope I didn't come across as shooting the messenger (i.e. you), because I really wasn't. Well, not intentionally, anyway. It's just that Der Spiegel is not what I would call a reliable source when it comes to aviation. Their aviation editor seems to have some kind of beef with anything that even remotely smells 'French', or even 'European'. Now, while I can quite understand that sentiment, I still find it annyoing to see this getting in the way of the facts. Presenting findings from March this year as "new troubles for the A380" is not what consider objective, unbiased reporting.
A personal opinion,
Indeed it does fly, I'm sure its optimal flight economics also stack up, I'm just not sure the requisite volume of sales will be achieved.
The logistics chain is a politically dictated risk managment nightmare, stories from the techies at the coalface are not encouraging re the manufacturing design aspects - probably standard stuff with a new build?
I wouldn't put money on it right now.
Indeed it does fly, I'm sure its optimal flight economics also stack up, I'm just not sure the requisite volume of sales will be achieved.
The logistics chain is a politically dictated risk managment nightmare, stories from the techies at the coalface are not encouraging re the manufacturing design aspects - probably standard stuff with a new build?
I wouldn't put money on it right now.
On page 3, a debate began about the 747's certification.
One thing is understood much better by structural engineers: long-term stresses inside a metal vertical stabilizer and rudder, compared to plastic etc (Airbus, Boeing Dreamliner).
Strange anomlies (here) with the A-300's rudder movements. And yes, there were tragedies with two B-737s. And the Silk Air B-737 tragedy might not have been an accident.
When large pieces break away, the investigation committees do not always have a pilot whom they can blame.
For example, we read nothing in our press about the former East German investigation about the Interflug A-300 or 310, or was this after the Wall came down?
We also read little or nothing about the French aviation incident/accident investigations or conclusions regarding anomalies with the Air France A-300.
One thing is understood much better by structural engineers: long-term stresses inside a metal vertical stabilizer and rudder, compared to plastic etc (Airbus, Boeing Dreamliner).
Strange anomlies (here) with the A-300's rudder movements. And yes, there were tragedies with two B-737s. And the Silk Air B-737 tragedy might not have been an accident.
When large pieces break away, the investigation committees do not always have a pilot whom they can blame.
For example, we read nothing in our press about the former East German investigation about the Interflug A-300 or 310, or was this after the Wall came down?
We also read little or nothing about the French aviation incident/accident investigations or conclusions regarding anomalies with the Air France A-300.
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Brabazon - those were the days! When whole villages had to be demolished to make room for wide enough runways!
So how many Brabazons were ordered around the globe then?!
The A380 will come of age - give it at least 10 years - I mean the 747 wasn't an instant 1000 order success!
Patience is a virtue......
..... but she won't always wait!
So how many Brabazons were ordered around the globe then?!
The A380 will come of age - give it at least 10 years - I mean the 747 wasn't an instant 1000 order success!
Patience is a virtue......
..... but she won't always wait!
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An awesome a/c. One we should all take pride in. After seeing her yesterday I have no doubt that she will be a long-term success story. The 600 is pretty tasty too ! Well done Airbus.
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It will work... in time... just like the 747 did years ago.
Many, many airlines will be waiting until the first deliveries, to decide when/how many to order. BA included I'll bet.
No major airline will want to be out of this race long, once they enter service.
Many, many airlines will be waiting until the first deliveries, to decide when/how many to order. BA included I'll bet.
No major airline will want to be out of this race long, once they enter service.
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Forgive me for technical ignorance, but how can the wiring on 380 be worse off than the pathetic CAPTON “insulation” on the still-flying X-versions of 747? Also - by the time that the 747 was on, the general public were not as inpatient as today.
After all, the 747 flew maaany years before the Capton failure was disclosed by unfortunate multiple-factor accidents. The 380 may fly even longer before something icky turns up. Then why the demand that anything produced nowadays should be infallible?
If Airbus wouldn’t go for it, then Boeing would be free to give us whatever they wanted. It’s called “competition” or “free enterprise”, or whatever you choose.
Can’t recall that the 747 (which was way ahead it’s time) encountered such a barrage. When somebody goes where no man has ventured before, pls give them some leeway!
When the 747 came about, there was an issue about i.e. airport gates. In “no time”, airports adapted to the public demand for bigger aircraft, and the rest is history.
After all, Airbus was the first to implement computer-controlled a/c. Their first tries were not to brag about, but so has been a fact all during the evolution of flight.
Like anything we buy these days, things are not expected to last very long (low-cost = low quality). Throw-away-items goes, whether it relates to things or service.
I dig Boeing, but still marvel re the cooperation that the Airbus venture have managed in an previously divided Europe (hey, only 90 yrs ago those small countries actually were at war!)
Wouldn’t mind if somebody here would sum up the core of these discussions…
After all, the 747 flew maaany years before the Capton failure was disclosed by unfortunate multiple-factor accidents. The 380 may fly even longer before something icky turns up. Then why the demand that anything produced nowadays should be infallible?
If Airbus wouldn’t go for it, then Boeing would be free to give us whatever they wanted. It’s called “competition” or “free enterprise”, or whatever you choose.
Can’t recall that the 747 (which was way ahead it’s time) encountered such a barrage. When somebody goes where no man has ventured before, pls give them some leeway!
When the 747 came about, there was an issue about i.e. airport gates. In “no time”, airports adapted to the public demand for bigger aircraft, and the rest is history.
After all, Airbus was the first to implement computer-controlled a/c. Their first tries were not to brag about, but so has been a fact all during the evolution of flight.
Like anything we buy these days, things are not expected to last very long (low-cost = low quality). Throw-away-items goes, whether it relates to things or service.
I dig Boeing, but still marvel re the cooperation that the Airbus venture have managed in an previously divided Europe (hey, only 90 yrs ago those small countries actually were at war!)
Wouldn’t mind if somebody here would sum up the core of these discussions…
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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I'll leave the summing up to someone else but for me the bottom line is this:
There is no doubt that when it's problems are sorted the A380 will be technically way ahead until the others catch up. The problem is that the A380 was intended as a B747 replacement with a similar size of market and that is not going to happen. The future of the A380 lies with the airlines and they only require this aircraft for a niche market that is not big enough to generate sufficient orders to enable the project to break even.
Technically excellent, (even though it looks wrong!), commercially a dinosaur.
My 2cents worth.
There is no doubt that when it's problems are sorted the A380 will be technically way ahead until the others catch up. The problem is that the A380 was intended as a B747 replacement with a similar size of market and that is not going to happen. The future of the A380 lies with the airlines and they only require this aircraft for a niche market that is not big enough to generate sufficient orders to enable the project to break even.
Technically excellent, (even though it looks wrong!), commercially a dinosaur.
My 2cents worth.
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Especially, since Boeing can just keep lengthening The Queen's upper and lower decks, the're very good at that
Nothing will match the Grace, Beauty and Flying qualities of the 747 series of jets in the "Jumbo/Super-Jumbo" arena
And they'll keep [even If they decide on a side stick] ARTIFICIAL FEEL 
edired to add the author of this post maybe a bit biased on this issue
Nothing will match the Grace, Beauty and Flying qualities of the 747 series of jets in the "Jumbo/Super-Jumbo" arena
And they'll keep [even If they decide on a side stick] ARTIFICIAL FEEL edired to add the author of this post maybe a bit biased on this issue
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Originally Posted by forget
After days of serious heat, nothing appeared to have been scraped or dug up, or have I missed some gossip? Once SIA start pulling in the self loaders, the rest will follow on IMHO. Had the A380 been a Boeing product, BA would have been up at the head of the queue.
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Lets not forget how long the 747 has been flying in all it's variants. You can expect the A380 to be operational for at least as long and production in place the whole, or most of, the time.
Just because it hasn't enough orders to break even currently doesn't mean that the elusive break-even line will not be crossed
Also, the sheer scale of production and the aircraft itself have left the public in awe - is this not what helped fuel initial 747 sales - the public wanting to fly on something that 'shouldn't fly'.
I'd bet money on Airbus being able to meet the break-even line, given time. It's been a huge project and been vastly expensive, so one cannot possibly expect it to have broken even before it's first commercial flight, but it'll get there.
That being said, it is a beast of an a/c! The 747 is much prettier, but I think for aesthetics the 346 is at the top - in commercial aviation at least.
Just because it hasn't enough orders to break even currently doesn't mean that the elusive break-even line will not be crossed
Also, the sheer scale of production and the aircraft itself have left the public in awe - is this not what helped fuel initial 747 sales - the public wanting to fly on something that 'shouldn't fly'.
I'd bet money on Airbus being able to meet the break-even line, given time. It's been a huge project and been vastly expensive, so one cannot possibly expect it to have broken even before it's first commercial flight, but it'll get there.
That being said, it is a beast of an a/c! The 747 is much prettier, but I think for aesthetics the 346 is at the top - in commercial aviation at least.