Security...what a joke!
Security is never perfect. However, a would-be criminal no longer has the guarantee that they'll be able to successfully slip a "reliable" weapon through.
What I mean by reliable is that it intimidates and when necessary can be used multiple times. Who would you rush first, a man with a glass, or a man with a knife?
However, I do agree that used properly one on one a glass would be nasty.
What I mean by reliable is that it intimidates and when necessary can be used multiple times. Who would you rush first, a man with a glass, or a man with a knife?
However, I do agree that used properly one on one a glass would be nasty.
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Cabin attendants and pilots go through screening. Then, once on board, they are trusted to do a security search (at least with some airlines).
There is something here that does not add up.
There is something here that does not add up.
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You can have perfect airport security (no weapons or potential weapons allowed) but it has nothing whatsoever to do with airplane security.
For example an attempted hijack was thwarted by the cabin crew when three unarmed men broke into the flight deck of a 737 and started to bash the pilots. If those guys had closed and locked the door behind them they would have succeeded. So how could airport security have stopped this attempt? Answer; they could not.
An attempt was made to set alight an airplane using a bottle of petrol (a bottle of aclohol would have worked as well). The perp poured the petrol over the seats and theatened to set it alight. The cabin crew again to the rescue. And what value airport security? None. Once you are airborne those cretins are totally useless.
A successful hijacking was done using a tv remote control ("I have a bomb etc"), and others have been attempted using chopsticks, asthma inhalers, etc. Knives, laptop computers, shoes (and that one was a farce: there is no proof that the shoes would have exploded. Most likely, even if they had been set alight, they would have just smoked. The FBI destroyed them pretty quick, maybe to prevent us from seeing how they were not a real threat), metal belt buckles, cellphones and so on are rarely used and hardly ever (never?) successfully used.
All a hijacker needs is the right attitude and he (usually always a he) has a chance. Taking away the means to fight from the cabin crew and passengers is insane. Creating a mind-set that the authorities, if we give up all our freedoms and rights, will protect us, is the plan and it does not work (well, creating the mind-set is easy, but protecting us in the air by making us criminals at the ariport will never work). The airplane would be completely safe if every passenger had a gun or big knife. No hijacker would be game to stand up. If only one armed person had been on board those airplanes on 9/11 (and I don't mean the idiots who are paid to be air marshalls) it would have been a squib.
The only real result from 9/11 is that it has turned us into cowards.
For example an attempted hijack was thwarted by the cabin crew when three unarmed men broke into the flight deck of a 737 and started to bash the pilots. If those guys had closed and locked the door behind them they would have succeeded. So how could airport security have stopped this attempt? Answer; they could not.
An attempt was made to set alight an airplane using a bottle of petrol (a bottle of aclohol would have worked as well). The perp poured the petrol over the seats and theatened to set it alight. The cabin crew again to the rescue. And what value airport security? None. Once you are airborne those cretins are totally useless.
A successful hijacking was done using a tv remote control ("I have a bomb etc"), and others have been attempted using chopsticks, asthma inhalers, etc. Knives, laptop computers, shoes (and that one was a farce: there is no proof that the shoes would have exploded. Most likely, even if they had been set alight, they would have just smoked. The FBI destroyed them pretty quick, maybe to prevent us from seeing how they were not a real threat), metal belt buckles, cellphones and so on are rarely used and hardly ever (never?) successfully used.
All a hijacker needs is the right attitude and he (usually always a he) has a chance. Taking away the means to fight from the cabin crew and passengers is insane. Creating a mind-set that the authorities, if we give up all our freedoms and rights, will protect us, is the plan and it does not work (well, creating the mind-set is easy, but protecting us in the air by making us criminals at the ariport will never work). The airplane would be completely safe if every passenger had a gun or big knife. No hijacker would be game to stand up. If only one armed person had been on board those airplanes on 9/11 (and I don't mean the idiots who are paid to be air marshalls) it would have been a squib.
The only real result from 9/11 is that it has turned us into cowards.
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Absolutely right, boofhead. We have turned into a society of frightened, humbled, downtrodden cowards. And I include fellow tech-crew in that. Can you believe I've seen CAPTAINS peer through the peek-hole and delay going to the toilet because a SIX-YEAR-OLD CHILD was outside the door?? I've seen Captains refuse to go speak with passengers, even to say "hello", because it might be "a security risk". My God....! Here in Aus, security nazis are now confiscating pilots' Maglite torches.... You know, the things you need to do walk-arounds with.... And rather than stand up to these people we meekly hand them over. And instead of our company getting on our side and dealing with issues like this they threaten us with DISMISSAL if you refuse to comply with security!
Historians of the future will look back at this era in astonishment. Astonishment at what a pathetic society we turned into.
I'm embarrassed to be a part of it.
Historians of the future will look back at this era in astonishment. Astonishment at what a pathetic society we turned into.
I'm embarrassed to be a part of it.
Last edited by Ron & Edna Johns; 12th Jun 2006 at 04:39.
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Ron & Edna Johns: How true. Sad but true. 
Just few weeks ago I was yelled at by an Air Canada first officer, because at the same time I was opening the toilet door he emerged from the cockpit. He screamed and looked like he was going to pull a karate stunt on me, then slammed the cockpit door, very terrified. So was I. All I said to him was "good morning".
Just few weeks ago I was yelled at by an Air Canada first officer, because at the same time I was opening the toilet door he emerged from the cockpit. He screamed and looked like he was going to pull a karate stunt on me, then slammed the cockpit door, very terrified. So was I. All I said to him was "good morning".
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I can't get over the fact that JOCKFLYER even started this post. What's his issue? Since when have pint glasses been a security risk? Yes,ofcourse it could potentially be used as a weapon - but so could a duty free bottle, a china plate, a belt, a hair grip etc etc - pleeeease!
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hasta lueGO
thank you very much,you are abosulutly correct,why JockFlyer started this post I'l never no..so many other things on an aeroplane can be used as a weapon,this type of scaremongering doesnt do any of us any good..Jockflyer you say uve worked as a barman? mmm maybe you should learn to leave what happens at work at work instead of declaring how much you thought your life was in danger on an open forum.:
thank you very much,you are abosulutly correct,why JockFlyer started this post I'l never no..so many other things on an aeroplane can be used as a weapon,this type of scaremongering doesnt do any of us any good..Jockflyer you say uve worked as a barman? mmm maybe you should learn to leave what happens at work at work instead of declaring how much you thought your life was in danger on an open forum.:
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Charles Dee says:
" He screamed and looked like he was going to pull a karate stunt on me, then slammed the cockpit door, very terrified. So was I. All I said to him was "good morning". "
Could it be that he didn't understand what Sabaah al-khayr means?
" He screamed and looked like he was going to pull a karate stunt on me, then slammed the cockpit door, very terrified. So was I. All I said to him was "good morning". "
Could it be that he didn't understand what Sabaah al-khayr means?
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BanterManter and Hasta LueGO,
If you think the thread is pointless, why bother to read it, and then feel the need to post complaining about it.
All I did was post a concern about what I belieive was pointless and inconsistant security. Some agree some don't, no big deal, but why you getting into such a fuss about me wanting to discuss it?
The whole purpose of this forum is to allow people to talk about things which affect them in their job. So,if we all leave our issues at work behind, then their would be no need for the forum.
If you don't like a topic, don't read it, OR go post something of your own which interests you. If this topic bothers you soooo much, then perhaps you need to chill a bit.
Cheers
JF
If you think the thread is pointless, why bother to read it, and then feel the need to post complaining about it.
All I did was post a concern about what I belieive was pointless and inconsistant security. Some agree some don't, no big deal, but why you getting into such a fuss about me wanting to discuss it?
The whole purpose of this forum is to allow people to talk about things which affect them in their job. So,if we all leave our issues at work behind, then their would be no need for the forum.
If you don't like a topic, don't read it, OR go post something of your own which interests you. If this topic bothers you soooo much, then perhaps you need to chill a bit.
Cheers
JF
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It is hard to believe anyone gives this insanity any credence at all, much less tries to defend it. Airport security is just the tip of the iceberg. We let them get away with this, we give up so much.
The bigger picture is Homeland Security (and whatever it is called in other countries) modelled after the same system used in Nazi Germany. It is the biggest government department in the US and has control of so much, including immigration, law enforcement, and even, through the "War" on drugs, the military. They have the power to lock people up without charging them, take away people's jobs (pilots, especially) and so much more. The ultimate of course is the several invasions of small countries like Iraq and the subsequent deaths of hundreds of thousands, many innocent women and children. Illegal wire-tapping is one way they maintain control, but for the most part they do what the nazis did. Goebels was asked how they (the nazis) managed to control the German people so successfully, allowing them to slaughter millions of innocents and start a major war (remind you of anything?) and the reply was that all it took was to tell the population they were under threat and to attack some foreign nation.
Parallels, anyone?
The bigger picture is Homeland Security (and whatever it is called in other countries) modelled after the same system used in Nazi Germany. It is the biggest government department in the US and has control of so much, including immigration, law enforcement, and even, through the "War" on drugs, the military. They have the power to lock people up without charging them, take away people's jobs (pilots, especially) and so much more. The ultimate of course is the several invasions of small countries like Iraq and the subsequent deaths of hundreds of thousands, many innocent women and children. Illegal wire-tapping is one way they maintain control, but for the most part they do what the nazis did. Goebels was asked how they (the nazis) managed to control the German people so successfully, allowing them to slaughter millions of innocents and start a major war (remind you of anything?) and the reply was that all it took was to tell the population they were under threat and to attack some foreign nation.
Parallels, anyone?
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Airport security is irrational (nearly) everywhere
How about this for "security":
In India, as a normal pax, you cannot even take nail clippers (!) on a plane. However, as a Sikh, you may take on your Kirpan (ceremonial dagger) plus as many long hairpins (for securing your turban) as you like.
Of course, we know that Sikhs would never hijack or even blow up a plane but that's another issue
In India, as a normal pax, you cannot even take nail clippers (!) on a plane. However, as a Sikh, you may take on your Kirpan (ceremonial dagger) plus as many long hairpins (for securing your turban) as you like.
Of course, we know that Sikhs would never hijack or even blow up a plane
but that's another issue
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Much of what is being said by some refer to the USA, where security has always been very poor and to some extent still is. In the UK sure there are many times when one can question the procedures or actions that take place. however, in the main within the UK the various agencies employed in aviation security have perfomed well, long may they do so. Futhermore some of the remarks on this thread do the aviation community a great disservice with the ramblings of some of the contributers. There is nothing new on this subject?
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At Bristol we do not allow covered drinks into the RZ. I.E. Cups of take away tea and coffee with lids on, open cans of coke etc etc.
Airport security will never be fool proof, at the end of the day we are only a deterrant, but it is significantly harder for a terrorist to succeed with their plans than it used to be!
As for petrol, how did that get on board? Thats dirty cargo, it cannot travel AT ALL.
As for quickly getting through security by not wearing certain shoes or belts that may activate the AMD, you can forget it! Thanks to Smiths detection, there are now AMD's that activate at random! They are a pain in the backside. Not to worry!
Airport security will never be fool proof, at the end of the day we are only a deterrant, but it is significantly harder for a terrorist to succeed with their plans than it used to be!
As for petrol, how did that get on board? Thats dirty cargo, it cannot travel AT ALL.
As for quickly getting through security by not wearing certain shoes or belts that may activate the AMD, you can forget it! Thanks to Smiths detection, there are now AMD's that activate at random! They are a pain in the backside. Not to worry!
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All uk airports will not allow coffee, tea ,open cans etc into the RZ as they cannot go through the xray system. Its nothing to do with them being used as 'weapons'.
The new AMD's will be fun....anyone callibrated one yet. You look a right plonker.
The new AMD's will be fun....anyone callibrated one yet. You look a right plonker.
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I know they cant be used as weapons, but can be used to conceal them.
I haven't tested an AMD because Im not an SDM, but Ive seen the SDM do it on a night shift and yes, quite plonkerish...
Weve had the new AMDs at Bristol for a while, are they going to be DfT standard in all airports then? Saw them at Manchester when I visited.
I haven't tested an AMD because Im not an SDM, but Ive seen the SDM do it on a night shift and yes, quite plonkerish...
Weve had the new AMDs at Bristol for a while, are they going to be DfT standard in all airports then? Saw them at Manchester when I visited.
