Biggin Hill (EGKB)
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
From: Tea green International
Biggin Hill (EGKB)
What are the limitations for Scheduled traffic to use Biggin as its destination.????
I have seen diversions from Gatwick, and even City, in the past.
Maintainance base for City Airport, and a night stop base in the past.
The terminal is rather sweet, but fully functional.
Bumz
I have seen diversions from Gatwick, and even City, in the past.
Maintainance base for City Airport, and a night stop base in the past.
The terminal is rather sweet, but fully functional.
Bumz
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
From: Bishkek (nr Luton)
Scheduled flights
I remember that Biggin Hill was banned at one stage from having scheduled services. I've looked at the airport website and the latest info under "history" is:
QUOTE
2000 Some six years after the Airport sale to BHAL, Bromley Council sought to ban individual fare paying passengers from using the Airport, saying that it had not been their intention to permit the operation of aircraft carrying individual fare paying passengers in 1994, but that they would consider applications on a ‘case by case’ basis.
2002 The matter is still not finally resolved and flights on which individuals can buy a ticket have not yet been approved by the Council.
UNQUOTE
Has this been resolved??
QUOTE
2000 Some six years after the Airport sale to BHAL, Bromley Council sought to ban individual fare paying passengers from using the Airport, saying that it had not been their intention to permit the operation of aircraft carrying individual fare paying passengers in 1994, but that they would consider applications on a ‘case by case’ basis.
2002 The matter is still not finally resolved and flights on which individuals can buy a ticket have not yet been approved by the Council.
UNQUOTE
Has this been resolved??
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
From: UK
Has this been resolved??
Bromley council say they welcome the growth of the airport but only whilst continuing to protect the local environment which is why they frequently take an opposing standpoint in any development plan. Despite airport advice to the contrary their planning committee continue to approve the building of new residential properties under the runway approaches, and when given a choice of two sites to build a major hospital they chose the one 2.5 mile final for the main runway!
Within the last few days they have turned down an airport planning application for a hotel on the airport despite their own chief planner recommending the project.
Biggin Hill continues to attract all types of aircraft operation allowed within the terms of their lease. Business traffic continues to grow and the arrival of Jet Aviation a few years ago gave a boost to this side of the operation.
For information the limitations placed in the airport lease do not mention aircraft size, only noise(basically Chapter 3 aircraft only) so we can accept BBJ's A319CJ and all compliant Gulfstream, Bombardier, Embraer etc types in any numbers providing we do not exceed the maximum movement figure of 125,000 per annum. It appears that if the people inside those aircraft have bought their tickets they cannot land at Biggin Hill, if however it is a whole aircraft charter by a company then there is no restriction.
Not being able to accept scheduled flights is an unwanted restriction to business at a time when government policy is to increase runway capacity in southeast England. It is not preventing us from running a successful business and we welcome new customers and existing friends alike.
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
From: UK
Charters and executive operations are one thing, but scheduled services are a completely different kettle of fish for any airport.
Given local competition from Gatwick and City, I wonder if there is a local demand suffcient to support any schedule services out of Biggin Hill, if so, where would they go?
Unlike charters, any operator of scheduled flights would demand significant concessions from the owners of Biggin to start up there, i.e. reduced or even no landing and parking fees, very low or no passenger taxes, free check in desks and very low rental offices for staff.
Additionally there are increased DOT Security requirements for staffing and equipment (which Biggin will have to pay for).
Don't forget that schedules must operate the service they have been licensed to do, so it doesnt matter if there are 50 or just 1 passenger - the flight is obliged to operate regardless of projected costs or revenue.
As much as I'd like to see Biggin get into the scheduled services market (at least SATCO B might get a bigger budget
) if was going to happen, potential operators would have forced their way in by now.
Given local competition from Gatwick and City, I wonder if there is a local demand suffcient to support any schedule services out of Biggin Hill, if so, where would they go?
Unlike charters, any operator of scheduled flights would demand significant concessions from the owners of Biggin to start up there, i.e. reduced or even no landing and parking fees, very low or no passenger taxes, free check in desks and very low rental offices for staff.
Additionally there are increased DOT Security requirements for staffing and equipment (which Biggin will have to pay for).
Don't forget that schedules must operate the service they have been licensed to do, so it doesnt matter if there are 50 or just 1 passenger - the flight is obliged to operate regardless of projected costs or revenue.
As much as I'd like to see Biggin get into the scheduled services market (at least SATCO B might get a bigger budget
) if was going to happen, potential operators would have forced their way in by now.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
From: UK
NikNak
There has been considerable interest to start up schedules from Biggin over the last few years. As Yak97 says these should be considered by the council on a case by case basis. They were submitted to the council and rejected, case by case. We even tweaked down aircraft sizes to the point I personally doubt they could have survived financially to see if that would assist in getting things started. It didn't !!
As far as Security is concerned we have had the necessary equipment and trained staff for several years albeit on just two check in desks and one secure departure gate. More than enough to get things started and we have no worries about increasing this if traffic loads require.
The council remain steadfast in their negative attitude and no operator has been able to 'force' their way in.
There has been considerable interest to start up schedules from Biggin over the last few years. As Yak97 says these should be considered by the council on a case by case basis. They were submitted to the council and rejected, case by case. We even tweaked down aircraft sizes to the point I personally doubt they could have survived financially to see if that would assist in getting things started. It didn't !!
As far as Security is concerned we have had the necessary equipment and trained staff for several years albeit on just two check in desks and one secure departure gate. More than enough to get things started and we have no worries about increasing this if traffic loads require.
The council remain steadfast in their negative attitude and no operator has been able to 'force' their way in.
Joined: Nov 2005
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 12,458
Likes: 368
From: Wildest Surrey
The lid of 125,000 pa presumably is total airfield movements ie including all VFR private/recreational/club movements; is there a hidden quota of (say) bizjets included in that figure?
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: London
Bromley Council are probably the most difficult council to deal with in the country - I speak from experience. They will never allow Biggin to go commercial/schedule, that has been tried many times over many many years and I can go back to 1980! There were others before that too.
The locals in the Valley were continually vociferous with their anti-Biggin-itis. Many, and I mean many, moved there knowing full well what to expect and then simply joined the ban brigade. Support by the council has never been in favour of any kind of growth on the airfield, although some has taken place for smaller businesses. Now it has grown even larger by development so there are too many locals in a larger area who would not vote for any councillor who supported the airfield - they would lose their seats.
Biggin has NO future. It goes on as it is or it dies. Ultimately I think it will be the latter. Chasing rainbows at Biggin is a lost cause.
Many firms have thrown money at Biggin in the hope they could win the hearts and minds of the locals but it was just a waste. The idea that the Council would judge a proposed service from Biggin on a case by case basis has, to my knowledge, been a loser. An arrangement such as that has no hope of getting past the council. Bromley Council had to buy the airfield but I, and many others, have always said that they would contrive one day to turn it into a housing development. It is probably because of the lousy transport system between Biggin and Bromley South that they have not been able to do it sooner. Who knows? One day they might extend the tram system from Addington to Biggin if they do close it down. People would demand a better system too.
Biggin has ALWAYS had it advantages but no one, not one, has been able to exploit them because of the intransigence of the council towards any kind of air traffic growth. As we speak there are limitations on that. It is only a question of time before the hammer falls.
The locals in the Valley were continually vociferous with their anti-Biggin-itis. Many, and I mean many, moved there knowing full well what to expect and then simply joined the ban brigade. Support by the council has never been in favour of any kind of growth on the airfield, although some has taken place for smaller businesses. Now it has grown even larger by development so there are too many locals in a larger area who would not vote for any councillor who supported the airfield - they would lose their seats.
Biggin has NO future. It goes on as it is or it dies. Ultimately I think it will be the latter. Chasing rainbows at Biggin is a lost cause.
Many firms have thrown money at Biggin in the hope they could win the hearts and minds of the locals but it was just a waste. The idea that the Council would judge a proposed service from Biggin on a case by case basis has, to my knowledge, been a loser. An arrangement such as that has no hope of getting past the council. Bromley Council had to buy the airfield but I, and many others, have always said that they would contrive one day to turn it into a housing development. It is probably because of the lousy transport system between Biggin and Bromley South that they have not been able to do it sooner. Who knows? One day they might extend the tram system from Addington to Biggin if they do close it down. People would demand a better system too.
Biggin has ALWAYS had it advantages but no one, not one, has been able to exploit them because of the intransigence of the council towards any kind of air traffic growth. As we speak there are limitations on that. It is only a question of time before the hammer falls.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
From: A galaxy far far away
A smidgen negative there surrey.
Biggins doing pretty well on the bizjet front, doesnt seem to need to pursue the scheduled flight option (how well is that working for london oxford?)
I certainly dont think Biggin is going to die.
Personally it does get on my wick when people move next to an airport and then proceed to complain about said airport, but I've found the majority of biggin residents to be fairly supportive of the airport.
I'd post more regularly but people may take offence.
I think its running at a little over half its 125000 cap, but thats based on a sketchy memory of a conversation i really wasnt paying attention to...
Biggins doing pretty well on the bizjet front, doesnt seem to need to pursue the scheduled flight option (how well is that working for london oxford?)
I certainly dont think Biggin is going to die.
Personally it does get on my wick when people move next to an airport and then proceed to complain about said airport, but I've found the majority of biggin residents to be fairly supportive of the airport.
Bringing this back to the top, surprised there aren't any Biggin Hill people around on here these days.
Hope things are going ok down there.
Good luck to all of them.
Hope things are going ok down there.
Good luck to all of them.
What annual numbers is Biggin running at?
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 153
Likes: 2
From: South Coast and Suffolk
New Manager for Biggin
Dubai Provides New Airport Manager for London Biggin Hill: AINonline
So they've got rid of the old Boss, I wonder if the new one will re-instate the Air Fair?
So they've got rid of the old Boss, I wonder if the new one will re-instate the Air Fair?
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Froikheim
I did a conversion course there many years ago – very welcoming and warm. A bit sterile today, but they are second to none for air shows (you used to be able to fly into these).
The airport has a current issue with large models operating within their ATZ – they say:
“What is certain is that the airports customers are growing more concerned about the apparent hazard.”
No wonder – models and full size??
The airport has a current issue with large models operating within their ATZ – they say:
“What is certain is that the airports customers are growing more concerned about the apparent hazard.”
No wonder – models and full size??
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: East Sussex
What land is actually included within the airfield lease? In many cases it is not the aircraft movements, parking fees or fuel sales trhat make an airfield profitable. They make their money from rental income from the buildings on the site which are let out. There are a huge numer of commercial buildings on the edge of Biggin Hill but I dont know which are on land which is contained within the airfield lease.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Froikheim
Biggin hill - near misses with large models
Sightings of model aircraft in the circuit and one confirmed air prox report at Wiki - see: Biggin Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
Does there have to be an accident first???
Does there have to be an accident first???Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: London
MD is to retire
Heard a rumour that the present MD at Biggin is retiring, what surprised me was who the MD is being replaced with, to the extent that I assumed it was an inaccurate rumour!
Anyone know anymore or is it all still hush hush?
Anyone know anymore or is it all still hush hush?
Last edited by Great Charmer; 23rd July 2013 at 13:36. Reason: Spelling
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 552
Likes: 7
From: UK
My guess is...
It is a rumour network so you are allowed to repeat unreliable and preposterous hearsay....
My guess is that the recently ousted Alistair Welch has grovelled to his previous employers and would relish getting back to the relative obscurity of a flying club and general aviation airport....
Discuss.
My guess is that the recently ousted Alistair Welch has grovelled to his previous employers and would relish getting back to the relative obscurity of a flying club and general aviation airport....
Discuss.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Essex
Possibly, but Alistair Welch performed a near miracle at Southend so I expect he'll go to some other airport with potential............... Manston, Cambridge, Lydd, Kidlington, Durham Tees Valley, Compton Abbas..........?