Debris flies off Discovery just after takeoff
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Debris flies off Discovery just after takeoff
Video showed what appeared to be a large piece of debris flying off the external fuel tank two minutes into the flight. The object did not seem to hit the orbiter. Footage also showed what might have been at least two light-colored objects flying off Discovery as the shuttle cleared the launch pad.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050726/...ace_shuttle_44
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050726/...ace_shuttle_44
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Without wanting to go down the road too much on what may or may not have been .... if you watch Matt Frei's report for the BBC (available on their BBC News player), he comments the same - except this time the debris is shown to fall off when the solid rocket boosters split away from the craft.
Here's hoping they have a safe return.
Jordan
Here's hoping they have a safe return.
Jordan
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Mission Control is reporting that there were two ascent debris events (identified by radar and visual cameras) which will be considered and reported on by the imagery team in time for the Discovery crew wake-up tomorrow. At present tomorrows timeline is not affected.
source: NASA TV
source: NASA TV
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and he gave assurances the multitude of images will be examined frame by frame in the coming hours and days.
The Cooler King
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"If the sensors had acted up before liftoff, the space agency had been prepared to bend its safety rules to get the shuttle flying.
"
Above quote from Yahoo....
After all that has happened in the past.....is that really what NASA stated???
"
Above quote from Yahoo....
After all that has happened in the past.....is that really what NASA stated???
Did anyone see the tv coverage of the launch, was quite spectacular. In particular the footage from the camera mounted on the external tank was incredible, super clear viauals of the underside of the shuttle right up to its separation from the Orbiter.
A couple of questions. Does anyone know;
The max IAS that the shuttle achieves during the launch and at what height
Where does the debris of the main tank fall, and is there any part of it thats not burned up and lands in the ocean, if so how much.
Just curious from watching the forward bracket that holds the nose of the Orbiter to the external tank. It must be some seriously engineered metalwork to survive several thousand Knots IAS at right angles to the relative airflow. Surely the struts must survive the re-entry of the tank and end up in the ocean. Can they accurately predict the impact point so that no ships, planes are in the flight puth of such debris.
Interestingly I was looking to see some shock waves comming off the struts during the launch but couldnt see any.
Great to see the shutlte back in operation. Hope the crew comes back safely.
A couple of questions. Does anyone know;
The max IAS that the shuttle achieves during the launch and at what height
Where does the debris of the main tank fall, and is there any part of it thats not burned up and lands in the ocean, if so how much.
Just curious from watching the forward bracket that holds the nose of the Orbiter to the external tank. It must be some seriously engineered metalwork to survive several thousand Knots IAS at right angles to the relative airflow. Surely the struts must survive the re-entry of the tank and end up in the ocean. Can they accurately predict the impact point so that no ships, planes are in the flight puth of such debris.
Interestingly I was looking to see some shock waves comming off the struts during the launch but couldnt see any.
Great to see the shutlte back in operation. Hope the crew comes back safely.
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The debris shooting off at the launch pad was strange to say the least. It was moving at speed in an upwards direction.
It was probably a UFO and they are showing the other footage of real debris to mask it. I recall many years ago media commentators saying it was not unusual to loose a tile or 2.
It was probably a UFO and they are showing the other footage of real debris to mask it. I recall many years ago media commentators saying it was not unusual to loose a tile or 2.
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I don't want to downplay the effects of debris coming of the shuttle during a liftoff. But it almost always happens. So it isnt something unusual though of course since the last flight the PhD's on the ground are a bit more cued on the issue. I'm sure all is fine and the mission will be a success.
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The other interesting thing which Matt Frei mentioned was that statistically if civil aviation had the same degree of safety "enjoyed" by the shuttle, there would be 560 civil airliner crashes each DAY!!
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When more than 97% of orbital speed is attained, the External Tank is detached from the Shuttle Orbiter and directed to cross Earth's atmosphere to burn up (Skylab-like) with remnants falling into a remote section of the Indian Ocean.
The boosters are recovered by 2 ships that position themselves in the Atlantic and the Shuttle only launches after they declare the drop zone free of traffic. I guess the small pieces of the external tank that fall into the Indian Ocean are so widely scattered that it's impossible to give an absolute assurance that the area will be free of vessels; on the other hand the chances of anyone being struck are less than 1x 10-12, even less than winning the lottery!
I believe that when the Shuttle was first introduced, the odds of an accident were given at 1-100, which I think is more or less what has happened. The cost of significantly reducing this risk would rise exponentially and you've got to ask if the money might be better spent on developing alternative methods of getting into orbit. Sending sections of construction materials to low orbit in a man-rated vehicle is in my view a waste of resources. Soyuz remains an effective and far cheaper way of getting people to and from orbit and seems with the maturity of that programme to be getting safer.
We mustn't forget that this is American's tax money being spent; we're just interested bystanders, so thanks to them for continuing to fund this benefit to all mankind.
I'd be interested in the answer to the 'max IAS' question; it's probably not that high. One of the reasons the Shuttle goes for the complication of liquid fuelled engines is so that they can be throttled; as they pass through the area of max dynamic pressure, the engines are throttled back until that region is passed through. I noticed a characteristic shock wave coming off the Orbiter as it went through the sound barrier; this is about the same time as throttle back. The Solid Rocket Boosters are of course still giving it max as they can't be shut down until they've exhausted their fuel.
Cheers,
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The two items that were seen coming off the Orbiter on launch were called "Tyvek Covers" and came off as planned. Image of the covers separating here. I can't remember exactly what they were covering, some sort of vent I think, but that is what was seen.
There was a birdstrike on the External Tank on take-off too, from the briefing the bird hit the nosecone and then went down the side of the ET away from the Orbiter. Picture here. The stack had not fully cleared the launch pad so the speed was relatively low.
A small piece of tile may have separated just behind the nosegear doors. Picture here.
Finally, when the Solid Rocket Boosters separated a piece of debris was seen to float away and miss the Orbiter. Picture here.
At the press conference broadcast yesterday afternoon the NASA guys were saying that this is all new stuff, they have never before had such detailed pictures of the launch and they will be sifting through it all methodically. Numerous press questions about repair, rescue missions, were all rebuffed and responded to with a "we'll be looking at this for 6 days, no point in panicking yet" attitude, it all came across well.
These debris events (and more I'm sure) have probably been occuring for all Shuttle missions, its just now they have technology in place to identify and hopefully reduce the amount of debris further still.
Good luck to all at NASA and the Crew, here's to a safe return
There was a birdstrike on the External Tank on take-off too, from the briefing the bird hit the nosecone and then went down the side of the ET away from the Orbiter. Picture here. The stack had not fully cleared the launch pad so the speed was relatively low.
A small piece of tile may have separated just behind the nosegear doors. Picture here.
Finally, when the Solid Rocket Boosters separated a piece of debris was seen to float away and miss the Orbiter. Picture here.
At the press conference broadcast yesterday afternoon the NASA guys were saying that this is all new stuff, they have never before had such detailed pictures of the launch and they will be sifting through it all methodically. Numerous press questions about repair, rescue missions, were all rebuffed and responded to with a "we'll be looking at this for 6 days, no point in panicking yet" attitude, it all came across well.
These debris events (and more I'm sure) have probably been occuring for all Shuttle missions, its just now they have technology in place to identify and hopefully reduce the amount of debris further still.
Good luck to all at NASA and the Crew, here's to a safe return
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Tyvek is a breathable material made by DuPont and is used for a wide variety of protective jobs.
In the case of the Shuttle, 2 covers are used to prevent rain water getting into a couple of attitude thruster exhausts that are vulnerable while the Orbiter is on the pad. They are fitted with small parachutes to enable them to detatch as the vehicle accelerates.
The Odd One
In the case of the Shuttle, 2 covers are used to prevent rain water getting into a couple of attitude thruster exhausts that are vulnerable while the Orbiter is on the pad. They are fitted with small parachutes to enable them to detatch as the vehicle accelerates.
The Odd One
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The question,
On launch, speed indications are INS driven.
Max q is reached at 1 minute after launch at about 35,000 ft.(typically Mach 1.5)
After this point, air density rapidly decreases, the shuttle throttles up and dynamic pressure reduces to zero after about 2 minutes. (3,000 mph / 28 miles high)
The shuttle then continues to accelerate to 17,500mph which is orbital speed.
Don't forget that on launch the shuttle is a rocket so airspeed isn't considered, except that obviously max q is accounted for!
On landing however, as the shuttles speed drops to less than Mach 3, two air data probes are deployed from either side of the nose of the spacecraft. These probes provide supplemental information on the airspeed and altitude gained from the outside barometric pressure and wind speed.
Clear as mud.
SS
(what is) The max IAS that the shuttle achieves during the launch and at what height
Max q is reached at 1 minute after launch at about 35,000 ft.(typically Mach 1.5)
After this point, air density rapidly decreases, the shuttle throttles up and dynamic pressure reduces to zero after about 2 minutes. (3,000 mph / 28 miles high)
The shuttle then continues to accelerate to 17,500mph which is orbital speed.
Don't forget that on launch the shuttle is a rocket so airspeed isn't considered, except that obviously max q is accounted for!
On landing however, as the shuttles speed drops to less than Mach 3, two air data probes are deployed from either side of the nose of the spacecraft. These probes provide supplemental information on the airspeed and altitude gained from the outside barometric pressure and wind speed.
Clear as mud.
SS
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HD,
Matt Frei's quote about airline safety (560 crashes a day) was unqualified and meaningless.
Was this figure world-wide, UK only or US only?
The Space Shuttle isn't a form of public transport - so why compare it to airline safety? Why not compare the Shuttle's safety record to that of road transport - he could then be even more dramatic by saying there'd be 2million car crashes in the UK every day?
What a pointless statistic!
Matt Frei's quote about airline safety (560 crashes a day) was unqualified and meaningless.
Was this figure world-wide, UK only or US only?
The Space Shuttle isn't a form of public transport - so why compare it to airline safety? Why not compare the Shuttle's safety record to that of road transport - he could then be even more dramatic by saying there'd be 2million car crashes in the UK every day?
What a pointless statistic!
The Solid Rocket Boosters are of course still giving it max as they can't be shut down until they've exhausted their fuel.
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The Shuttle fleet is to be grounded until the reasons for these foam pieces falling off the tank are ascertained.
Maybe they should revert to painting the tank, like they used to.
Maybe they should revert to painting the tank, like they used to.
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"The US space agency Nasa has said it is grounding the space shuttle fleet while engineers investigate debris which fell from Discovery during its launch...
Shuttle programme manager Bill Parsons said the debris did not hit the orbiter and posed no threat to the crew...
But he said shuttles would not be able to fly again until the hazard was dealt with."
Um... you are grounding the shuttle fleet but the Discovery is OK?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4723109.stm
Shuttle programme manager Bill Parsons said the debris did not hit the orbiter and posed no threat to the crew...
But he said shuttles would not be able to fly again until the hazard was dealt with."
Um... you are grounding the shuttle fleet but the Discovery is OK?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4723109.stm