why are we despised?
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,011
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From: Hampshire, UK
So there we have it- I think Longbow is looking at the situation rather too negatively or sensitively! Perhaps mild criticism is being taken too hard- remember stamp collectors, butterfly collectors, beer mat collectors, football card collectors....they all come in for a bit of ribbing too!
I have one idea to postulate for comment. This is quite interesting. I watched a documentary recently about autism which suggested ALL males were, by what we define as autistic, autistic to a mild degree. We are familiar, thanks to Rainman, with the qualities of autism, and I'm inclined to agree it is something all us fellahs may actually suffer from. Look at the above hobbies.....virtually all male passtimes completely, and the mere fact of logging reggies/train numbers/Norbert Dentressangles/Eddie Stobart lorry names for no other reason than to keep a list probably shows a mild form of what we are talking about!
So am I spouting rubbish?
PS Women don't get away Scot-free. They've got hormones instead! Which is worse?
I have one idea to postulate for comment. This is quite interesting. I watched a documentary recently about autism which suggested ALL males were, by what we define as autistic, autistic to a mild degree. We are familiar, thanks to Rainman, with the qualities of autism, and I'm inclined to agree it is something all us fellahs may actually suffer from. Look at the above hobbies.....virtually all male passtimes completely, and the mere fact of logging reggies/train numbers/Norbert Dentressangles/Eddie Stobart lorry names for no other reason than to keep a list probably shows a mild form of what we are talking about!
So am I spouting rubbish?
PS Women don't get away Scot-free. They've got hormones instead! Which is worse?
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 170
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From: Newcastle
Hi G-LOST!
Remember me - your ex-PPL student from LBA?
I take it you're a captain nowadays! Well done! Is it still on the E135/45? Have you even set foot inside a C152 since moving to the 'big stuff?'
Is SH a captain yet?
Regards
Flock1
PS. To the starter of this thread, sorry about sending this off on a tangent. I'm sure it'll return back on track soon enough.
Remember me - your ex-PPL student from LBA?
I take it you're a captain nowadays! Well done! Is it still on the E135/45? Have you even set foot inside a C152 since moving to the 'big stuff?'
Is SH a captain yet?
Regards
Flock1
PS. To the starter of this thread, sorry about sending this off on a tangent. I'm sure it'll return back on track soon enough.
Joined: May 2004
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 965
Likes: 46
From: Ташкент
As a young Kid I spent many a happy weekend at the top of the multi storey car park at Gatwick with my airband radio (still remember the model... SHARP FX213AU 
).. people often came up to me to ask what was the next plane coming down the ILS was (I assume they were waiting for family/friends!)
I never felt I were sad... however I have to admit I didn't really pursue the hobby much after Eighteen (University got in the way).
I fly now professionally, however those were great days, and a "spotting" holiday wouldn't be amiss if I had the time!
I for one, like many people I work with were or are spotters. Actually spotters brings kind of negative connotations - I prefer enthusiast.
I mean people watch F1... are they sad?
).. people often came up to me to ask what was the next plane coming down the ILS was (I assume they were waiting for family/friends!)I never felt I were sad... however I have to admit I didn't really pursue the hobby much after Eighteen (University got in the way).
I fly now professionally, however those were great days, and a "spotting" holiday wouldn't be amiss if I had the time!
I for one, like many people I work with were or are spotters. Actually spotters brings kind of negative connotations - I prefer enthusiast.
I mean people watch F1... are they sad?
I'matightbastard
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,747
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From: Texas
So we're really talking about two things here
(1) Writing down and collecting registration numbers, which I have to admit is a little ...ahem... esoteric
(2) Watching aeroplanes, small and large, learning and collecting information about different types, usage, deployment, development, interesting technical details etc etc.
I worked in the industry for a while and I saw mostly people who didn't really give a crap about aircraft (I was in IT) there were a few that were very engaged in the subject and a broad mifddle ground of people who knew alot, but because it was their job. THey would know all the spark plug types if they worked in an auto parts store.
Having said that, I think the world would be, at the very least a more logical place if industries everywhere were filled with enthusiasts. Then again I really have little love for computers.
I do like the autism + lists vs hormones comment though
(1) Writing down and collecting registration numbers, which I have to admit is a little ...ahem... esoteric
(2) Watching aeroplanes, small and large, learning and collecting information about different types, usage, deployment, development, interesting technical details etc etc.
I worked in the industry for a while and I saw mostly people who didn't really give a crap about aircraft (I was in IT) there were a few that were very engaged in the subject and a broad mifddle ground of people who knew alot, but because it was their job. THey would know all the spark plug types if they worked in an auto parts store.
Having said that, I think the world would be, at the very least a more logical place if industries everywhere were filled with enthusiasts. Then again I really have little love for computers.
I do like the autism + lists vs hormones comment though
Thought police antagonist
Joined: Jul 2003
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 1,574
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From: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Some interesting views here. Depends how you define a "spotter" I suppose. The predilection for collecting s/no or regs is one that I find hard to understand in mature adults---in my younger days, yep, as it was fostering my interest in aviation. I suppose I had better add here that I still invariably glance up at an aircraft when I see one however--- have done for years and will continue to do so I am pleased to say.
The term "aviation enthusiast" is much more valid however given that a significant number of these people have a detailed knowledge about many sectors of aviation and are usually an invaluable source--and not just in a historical context.
Interesting point from G-LOST as well re his F/O---I don't think he's as unique as you might think. I often encounter (ed) many pilots and engineers for whom aviation was simply "a job"--and that was it. Now as I have always been interested in anything aviation related and not just the airlines, I found this a little difficult to understand at times--given that it's not the sort of industry that you simply just drop into by chance as it were--although possibly to-day that's probably no longer true.
Not to mention the fact that serious enthusiasts are also pretty good as a "volunteer security" around airports / fields given they would be the first to notice something out of the ordinary would they not.
The only criticism I would level against some of them is when they grab their "20 secs of fame" whenever an incident occurs and some equally vacuous journo wants a sound bite from an eye-witness. Unlike the more measured response to serious questions from those involved in the industry posed by serious journos that is.
The term "aviation enthusiast" is much more valid however given that a significant number of these people have a detailed knowledge about many sectors of aviation and are usually an invaluable source--and not just in a historical context.
Interesting point from G-LOST as well re his F/O---I don't think he's as unique as you might think. I often encounter (ed) many pilots and engineers for whom aviation was simply "a job"--and that was it. Now as I have always been interested in anything aviation related and not just the airlines, I found this a little difficult to understand at times--given that it's not the sort of industry that you simply just drop into by chance as it were--although possibly to-day that's probably no longer true.
Not to mention the fact that serious enthusiasts are also pretty good as a "volunteer security" around airports / fields given they would be the first to notice something out of the ordinary would they not.
The only criticism I would level against some of them is when they grab their "20 secs of fame" whenever an incident occurs and some equally vacuous journo wants a sound bite from an eye-witness. Unlike the more measured response to serious questions from those involved in the industry posed by serious journos that is.
Last edited by Krystal n chips; 8th July 2005 at 18:15.
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Dont let them get you down, I have 2 children and on a regular bais would tell them we are going to london to Heathrow to watch the planes when they were younger it was ok, but later they got wise mum was a plane spotter and thought I was mad, anyway the way to cure this was to become cabin crew at 39 and that did it for and now im doing my ppl with lots of encouragement from out Flight Deck and the company, and I spend as much time in the cockpit as poss, and love it it has not cured me just made me believe in myself that I can do it, and yes on the way to work still plane spot and can tell you all the registrations etc etc. I LOVE PLANE SPOTTING. So enjoy and take no notice of the narrow minded people who fly the skys, and believe me security only wished they could.
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,880
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From: Dublin, Ireland
I think the one point I would raise is that people who "despise" spotters may have nothing to be passionately interested in, themselves. That's the sad part; if people criticise you for being an anorak, airplane geek etc, ponder (or even ask) what they are passionate about. Life is too long a journey to go through it without being passionate about something.
The Chinese curse, "may you live in interesting times" is one thing, but a much worse curse would be to go through life without having any real joy, anything to make your heart beat a little faster, to throw yourself into. That's what aviation is to me; it's more than just photography; it's an incredibly wide area that can actually take in many other areas.
So, when I'm standing in a field beneath the 09L approach tomorrow, people may see a geek, but it'll be someone who is just exercising one particular part of his hobby. And someone who'd be an awful lot happier if the 27s were in use. Well, you can't have everything!
The Chinese curse, "may you live in interesting times" is one thing, but a much worse curse would be to go through life without having any real joy, anything to make your heart beat a little faster, to throw yourself into. That's what aviation is to me; it's more than just photography; it's an incredibly wide area that can actually take in many other areas.
So, when I'm standing in a field beneath the 09L approach tomorrow, people may see a geek, but it'll be someone who is just exercising one particular part of his hobby. And someone who'd be an awful lot happier if the 27s were in use. Well, you can't have everything!
Not Manchester
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 506
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From: Salford
Anyone who wishes to call 6ft and 20 stone of Caslance a geek is quite welcome to try.
But you'd better have an encyclopeadic knowledge of British aircraft of the 1950s............................
But you'd better have an encyclopeadic knowledge of British aircraft of the 1950s............................
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 38
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From: Ireland
What happened to the kids who loved to watch aircraft, became addicted to the smell of kero, scrimped and saved their way into a cockpit and finally landed a flying job.
sadly though, I do know one or two guys who want to fly heavies purely for money.
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: 39N 77W
Once in ever so seldom I go to a picnic spot off the end of the runway at K---. What impresses me is the number of 20-something females who show up with their small children to watch the planes.
They probably aren't just waiting for the phone call to pick up daddy at the airport since the access road is one-way away from the airport. It would take negotiating a a maze of raods to get back.
Spotters, nerds, geeks, anoraks? Not really, but they must have some aviation interest.
They probably aren't just waiting for the phone call to pick up daddy at the airport since the access road is one-way away from the airport. It would take negotiating a a maze of raods to get back.
Spotters, nerds, geeks, anoraks? Not really, but they must have some aviation interest.
Ohcirrej
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: This is the internet FFS.........
I would be lying through my teeth to say I haven't stood next to "one of the despised" ( ) on top of the Queens Building at Heathrow listening to their scanner. And the knowledge base/aircraft recognition of some of the guys and gals I have spoken to is amazing as is the level of enthusiasm shown. I have certainly learnt a thing or two from them, or had an aircraft call in that is a little out of the ordinary and thought "Hey, I remember old mate telling me something about that!"
You guys and gals keep doing what you do, and ignore anyone who wants to tell you otherwise.
Chances are if I'm around, I'll be looking up as well.
) on top of the Queens Building at Heathrow listening to their scanner. And the knowledge base/aircraft recognition of some of the guys and gals I have spoken to is amazing as is the level of enthusiasm shown. I have certainly learnt a thing or two from them, or had an aircraft call in that is a little out of the ordinary and thought "Hey, I remember old mate telling me something about that!"You guys and gals keep doing what you do, and ignore anyone who wants to tell you otherwise.
Chances are if I'm around, I'll be looking up as well.
Joined: Jun 2000
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I still have my Ian Allans's 1961 edition of "Civil Aircraft Markings" with all the "copped" registrations underlined.
It did me no harm and eventually led to 35 years flying the things out of Heathrow. Anyone interested in a few old log books? Tridents, 757's. 767's and 777's.
It did me no harm and eventually led to 35 years flying the things out of Heathrow. Anyone interested in a few old log books? Tridents, 757's. 767's and 777's.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4
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From: Chesterfield, UK
Interesting thread - I don't think I've ever been "despised" for being a spotter. I've been the source of amusement many times, the object of interest frequently, and questioned by the police once (EWR, watching the CO E145s while waiting for a flight to BHX).
I've been all over the world - Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels, Hong Kong, Singapore, Melbourne, Toronto, Vancouver and more US cities than I care to remember and I've always done the tourist things as well as chasing the numbers. I know my list of overseas visits pales into insignificance compared to some, but I enjoy myself and I've been to many more places than some of my non-spotting friends.
But it's not just the numbers - I'm just as happy sitting at the end of a runway photographing the inbounds, even if I only "make" one or two all day. Likewise, watching sheer brute force make something weighing tons effectively weightless is still something I marvel at. Just how do C-5s fly? It never looks like they're trying hard enough.
Off to Fairford this weekend for a good deafening - hope to see many of you there!
Regards
Jim
I've been all over the world - Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels, Hong Kong, Singapore, Melbourne, Toronto, Vancouver and more US cities than I care to remember and I've always done the tourist things as well as chasing the numbers. I know my list of overseas visits pales into insignificance compared to some, but I enjoy myself and I've been to many more places than some of my non-spotting friends.
But it's not just the numbers - I'm just as happy sitting at the end of a runway photographing the inbounds, even if I only "make" one or two all day. Likewise, watching sheer brute force make something weighing tons effectively weightless is still something I marvel at. Just how do C-5s fly? It never looks like they're trying hard enough.
Off to Fairford this weekend for a good deafening - hope to see many of you there!
Regards
Jim
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 25
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From: Lancashire, England
Interesting thread going on here.
I started spotting at Blackpool when around 8yr old. Continued until I discovered the female form, where my efforts took a different direction!
Returned to the hobby as a photographer and have travelled widely as a result.
I always enjoy visiting the US as, wherever I go, I notice people watching my actions but always wary of approaching. As soon as I make conversation with them I discover they're fascinated by the hobby. I believe the term 'Tail number collector' is used in the States.
I reckon the only other nation to follow spotting, to the levels in the UK, are the cloggies!
Anyway I get paid to shoot my favourite subjects;
1) fast jets at air shows.
2) flying boats and float planes.
3) motorsport events.
4) model portfolio's.
Yes the latter is my particular favourite but what do you expect?
Fast jets, slow props, fast bikes and faster women!
Regards
Reggie (AKA The Cameraman)
I started spotting at Blackpool when around 8yr old. Continued until I discovered the female form, where my efforts took a different direction!
Returned to the hobby as a photographer and have travelled widely as a result.
I always enjoy visiting the US as, wherever I go, I notice people watching my actions but always wary of approaching. As soon as I make conversation with them I discover they're fascinated by the hobby. I believe the term 'Tail number collector' is used in the States.
I reckon the only other nation to follow spotting, to the levels in the UK, are the cloggies!
Anyway I get paid to shoot my favourite subjects;
1) fast jets at air shows.
2) flying boats and float planes.
3) motorsport events.
4) model portfolio's.
Yes the latter is my particular favourite but what do you expect?
Fast jets, slow props, fast bikes and faster women!
Regards
Reggie (AKA The Cameraman)
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Posts: n/a
working at an airport, and flying 172's, atm i'm getting plenty of casual spotting in, but the most memorable was sitting on the car aprk roof top at kai tuk, watching the big jets, i even got a classic sky shot of a KLM 742 crossing the road at about 400ft above the mcd's
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 40
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From: UK
Most professional pilots do have a genuine interest in aviation at the start, otherwise they wouldn`t go through all the crap needed to gain their ATPL !
I will say however that the interest CAN wear off when you`re working in that environment everyday, so much as to say it gets fairly tedious at times. I think this is probably a major reason why "spotters" get that reaction from ppl working within the aviation industry especially. We simply just forget what we were like at the start and don`t understand how ppl can get so enthusiastic about it !
I will say however that the interest CAN wear off when you`re working in that environment everyday, so much as to say it gets fairly tedious at times. I think this is probably a major reason why "spotters" get that reaction from ppl working within the aviation industry especially. We simply just forget what we were like at the start and don`t understand how ppl can get so enthusiastic about it !
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Between EGGP and EGCC
I fully agree that this thread is interesting, I have lots of time for aircraft spotters, and can't really understand the "ribbing" they get from professionals in the industy. I live close to manchester airport and have done for pretty much the whole of my life. My interest in aviation almost definately started as a result from the tender age of six or seven.
I have endured many times sitting around in the freezing cold, writing down numbers with my pals. It hasn't done me any long term harm! In fact a career change at 30, with ATPL and now flying the B.737 I can really think back, reflecting on how lucky I was to be bitten by the bug.
Keep it up you lot, it is nice to have keen enthusiasts looking on as I taxi past.
I have endured many times sitting around in the freezing cold, writing down numbers with my pals. It hasn't done me any long term harm! In fact a career change at 30, with ATPL and now flying the B.737 I can really think back, reflecting on how lucky I was to be bitten by the bug.
Keep it up you lot, it is nice to have keen enthusiasts looking on as I taxi past.