Flight Deck Access
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Joined: Jan 2005
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From: somewhere over the rainbow...
Flight Deck Access
Hey people
Ive had a look on the internet and I keep finding contradictory reports. What is the current ruling on visits to the cockpit? I ask because Im going on holidays soon and was hoping to have a chat with the crew about career prospects and lifestyle etc. Are there different rules if you just want to have a look on the ground?
Do you have to go through any official channels for clearance?
Cheers big ears
ETC
Ive had a look on the internet and I keep finding contradictory reports. What is the current ruling on visits to the cockpit? I ask because Im going on holidays soon and was hoping to have a chat with the crew about career prospects and lifestyle etc. Are there different rules if you just want to have a look on the ground?
Do you have to go through any official channels for clearance?
Cheers big ears
ETC
Joined: May 2005
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From: Concorde House, Gatwick.
Visits to the flight deck.
Sadly, for the 99.999% of individuals who pose absolutely no danger to the safety of an airliner, visits to the flight deck are a thing of the past. Any notion that the flight deck crew would be happy to sit and chat to a spotter after shut-down is the stuff of cloud-cuckoo land. After probably their 4th or sixth sector of the day, they'll just want to get home like you.
In 1980 (as an airliner mad 13-y-o), I wrote to the Chief Captain of Dan-Air asking if I could travel in the jump seat on one of their flights. It was all arranged in a 'Jim'll Fix It' style, and later I travelled on a 727 to Stuttgart and back.
Such a treat would be ABSOLUTELY inconceivable today due to all the rules, regulations, restrictions, and liabilties which now govern not just aviation but every area of our lives.
If you really want to be in the cockpit during a flight, your best chance is to go to your local aerodrome and pay for a trial lesson in a Cessna.
Please don't shoot the messenger!
In 1980 (as an airliner mad 13-y-o), I wrote to the Chief Captain of Dan-Air asking if I could travel in the jump seat on one of their flights. It was all arranged in a 'Jim'll Fix It' style, and later I travelled on a 727 to Stuttgart and back.
Such a treat would be ABSOLUTELY inconceivable today due to all the rules, regulations, restrictions, and liabilties which now govern not just aviation but every area of our lives.
If you really want to be in the cockpit during a flight, your best chance is to go to your local aerodrome and pay for a trial lesson in a Cessna.
Please don't shoot the messenger!
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: London & Edinburgh
captainbritboy - obviously you didn't read my above post: I've been on a number of short haul & long haul flights recently (post Spet 11) and with the exception of the lo-cos (for obvious turnaround reasons), I have had a success rate, the better side of 50% of crews generous enough to offer me a chance to come up front. And they love to see people with an interest in aviation - spotters or (in my case) air cadets or many others. So it didn't really matter whether it was after a 13hr fliht or 2hrs, they were equally pleasant.
Maybe you had a bad experience, where they said no?
Jordan
Maybe you had a bad experience, where they said no?
Jordan
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 264
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From: Hampshire, UK
The general attitude I have experienced is that Flight Deck crew are 99.99% of the time enthralled to invite you in after the flight. The ones I have spoken to love it, because it gives them the rare opportuntity to show people around.
The only problems I have are with tight turnarounds: unless the crew are really nice, they just cannot fit you in on a 20 minute turnaround.
The second problem is cabin crew who share the same attitude as captainbritboy, and think that post 9/11 any visit to the flight deck is against every rule in the book. If that happens try and persuade them to ask the flight deck crew, who will most likely prove them wrong!
The only problems I have are with tight turnarounds: unless the crew are really nice, they just cannot fit you in on a 20 minute turnaround.
The second problem is cabin crew who share the same attitude as captainbritboy, and think that post 9/11 any visit to the flight deck is against every rule in the book. If that happens try and persuade them to ask the flight deck crew, who will most likely prove them wrong!
Joined: Nov 1999
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An amusing concept that we are "enthralled" ( captivated and charmed ) by visitors on the ground ! You think ?
In reality a quick visit is sometimes possible. There are a number of realities to be aware of however. In some countries the start of the aircraft turnaround procedures cannot commence until all of the passengers are off the aircraft. This includes the all important security checks. Cleaners may not be able to board. The next crew may even be prevented from boarding until all passengers are off the aircraft. These folk who are also very constrained by tight turnarounds or the need to complete their tasks within a defined time period may be very un-enthralled at being kept waiting.
If a request can be accommodated it probably will, but the realities may differ from your perception of them, so don't be surprised if such accommodations are not forthcoming. In the days when in-flight visits were possible and time was less of a constraint, the times when those visitors "enthralled" us was few and far between. It is now much more difficult and our ability to be "enthralled" less likely.
In reality a quick visit is sometimes possible. There are a number of realities to be aware of however. In some countries the start of the aircraft turnaround procedures cannot commence until all of the passengers are off the aircraft. This includes the all important security checks. Cleaners may not be able to board. The next crew may even be prevented from boarding until all passengers are off the aircraft. These folk who are also very constrained by tight turnarounds or the need to complete their tasks within a defined time period may be very un-enthralled at being kept waiting.
If a request can be accommodated it probably will, but the realities may differ from your perception of them, so don't be surprised if such accommodations are not forthcoming. In the days when in-flight visits were possible and time was less of a constraint, the times when those visitors "enthralled" us was few and far between. It is now much more difficult and our ability to be "enthralled" less likely.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 24
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From: Concorde House, Gatwick.
Visits to the pit.
I still maintain that the vast majority of flight-deck crew would rather get off home to watch Eastenders and put their feet up like normal people rather than sit around talking shop to a loser who has as much chance of piloting an airliner as he has of running the branch of Tescos where he works.
Anyone, in the 21st century who has actually found a captain, who has time to answer moronic questions like 'what would happen if I selected gear up while the aircraft is on the ground', has found the tosspot that nobody else talks to. (I think I know him... he's a first officer with Air Atlanta)
After 24 years in this business, I have become very cynical but will never forget that, I too, was once a spotty spotter. It's just that I was a spotty spotter in a different era of commercial aviation.
Sorry everyone... I just had a bad day.
Best of luck!!!
Anyone, in the 21st century who has actually found a captain, who has time to answer moronic questions like 'what would happen if I selected gear up while the aircraft is on the ground', has found the tosspot that nobody else talks to. (I think I know him... he's a first officer with Air Atlanta)
After 24 years in this business, I have become very cynical but will never forget that, I too, was once a spotty spotter. It's just that I was a spotty spotter in a different era of commercial aviation.
Sorry everyone... I just had a bad day.
Best of luck!!!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 24
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From: Concorde House, Gatwick.
Re: Visits to flight deck by passengers.
Most flight deck crew would have little problem with any passenger who simply wanted to 'poke their nose' into the cockpit and have a quick look around. Crew can still perform shutdown or pre-flight checks with someone looking over their shoulder, no problem.
It's just annoying when spotters start asking daft questions like 'do planes have a reverse gear...?', etc., etc.
CAA rules forbid admittance to the flight deck by non-crew members during actual flight, however, there is no ruling that they cannot be admitted when the aircraft is on stand. It is at the discretion of the Captain, so this is a subjective issue.
FAA rules prohibit non-crew members on transatlantic flights (ie; spouses, friends, family etc.) from travelling in the jump seat. This has proved a great disappointment to the many individuals on staff travel who have not got on when the aircraft has gone full.
It's just annoying when spotters start asking daft questions like 'do planes have a reverse gear...?', etc., etc.
CAA rules forbid admittance to the flight deck by non-crew members during actual flight, however, there is no ruling that they cannot be admitted when the aircraft is on stand. It is at the discretion of the Captain, so this is a subjective issue.
FAA rules prohibit non-crew members on transatlantic flights (ie; spouses, friends, family etc.) from travelling in the jump seat. This has proved a great disappointment to the many individuals on staff travel who have not got on when the aircraft has gone full.
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: UK
I still maintain that the vast majority of flight-deck crew would rather get off home to watch Eastenders and put their feet up like normal people rather than sit around talking shop to a loser who has as much chance of piloting an airliner as he has of running the branch of Tescos where he works.
Got to love your god complex though, your post makes you sound like a complete idiot!!.
Last edited by 3202b; 30th December 2005 at 12:56.
Joined: May 2005
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From: Concorde House, Gatwick.
Visits to flight deck, con't...
Ok, fair enough... perhaps it is unfair to make a sweeping generalisation, so apologies for anyone who has been offended by my comments. Nothing like a bit of controversy for a dull Saturday afternoon!
I accept that for members of the public, it is harder now than ever before to get a real close up view of the flight deck of a commercial airliner, and I am sure that, aware of this, there are many pilots who are all too willing to accomodate those who express an interest.
I am lucky enough to have a job which enables me 100% access to airliners of assorted shapes and sizes at any time, so for me, it's just 'another day at the office'.
I accept that for members of the public, it is harder now than ever before to get a real close up view of the flight deck of a commercial airliner, and I am sure that, aware of this, there are many pilots who are all too willing to accomodate those who express an interest.
I am lucky enough to have a job which enables me 100% access to airliners of assorted shapes and sizes at any time, so for me, it's just 'another day at the office'.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 30
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From: California
You can visit the flight deck and chat with the crew as long as you are at the gate and the engines are off. I have been asking for years, and I have only been rejected around 2-3 times. All of the pilots these day's are really friendly and if one isn't, the other one certainly will be. Last time I flew, the FO was very friendly and did most of the talking while the Captain just jumped in a few times and prepared the cockpit the rest of the time. As soon as you board, ask the flight attendent at the door if it would be possible for you to visit the cockpit, and almost all of the time they will say ok. After the flight, you can ask the pilots who always say "Bye" at the cockpit door.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 17
Likes: 1
From: Perth, Western Australia
Howdy all,
Apart from flights with the company I work for, I have gained access to the flight deck after the flight only. I haven't asked to visit the flight deck during flight, but I showed the cabin crew ASIC card (Airport Security ID) and asked them if, after all the pax had disembarked, I could get some photos of the flight deck on the Virgin Blue PER-SYD flight. Turns out the Captain was an ex-NJS pilot (Where I work) and he was more than happy to let me in.
Airline workers prolly have a better chance than most I reckon if they show their Airport ID.
Cheers,
Apart from flights with the company I work for, I have gained access to the flight deck after the flight only. I haven't asked to visit the flight deck during flight, but I showed the cabin crew ASIC card (Airport Security ID) and asked them if, after all the pax had disembarked, I could get some photos of the flight deck on the Virgin Blue PER-SYD flight. Turns out the Captain was an ex-NJS pilot (Where I work) and he was more than happy to let me in.
Airline workers prolly have a better chance than most I reckon if they show their Airport ID.
Cheers,
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 928
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From: ex-DXB
It certainly is odd. A quick look at !!!!!!!!!!!!!! will reveal pages and pages of pictures from in-flight action. The dates on these pictures are from the post 9/11 era too.
Is it the crew? Some of them are showing very short finals. Surely not the time to be taking pictures?
Errr?
Is it the crew? Some of them are showing very short finals. Surely not the time to be taking pictures?
Errr?
Last edited by Craggenmore; 14th June 2005 at 22:11.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 428
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From: Middle East
I've found very very few crews who aren't more than happy to talk shop with an interested spotter. I owe the B-Med crew one a few years back who, after I sent a note and a photocopy of my license up to the skipper, got me up for a jump seat take-off from LHR, answered all my rubbish questions and then got me back for a night landing at Beirut. Fab!
Sadly not possible these days, or ever again in all likelihood.
Sadly not possible these days, or ever again in all likelihood.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 279
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From: king-size bed, goose feather duvet, deepest Sussex
You shouldn't sneer at people asking questions like 'Do planes have a reverse gear?' and 'What will happen if you select gear up when you're on the ground?'.
These are two perfectly reasonable questions for someone who knows nothing about flying to ask and, in my experience, most airline pilots are happy to answer them.
I bet you asked those questions once upon a time. Stop being so superior.
These are two perfectly reasonable questions for someone who knows nothing about flying to ask and, in my experience, most airline pilots are happy to answer them.
I bet you asked those questions once upon a time. Stop being so superior.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 24
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From: Concorde House, Gatwick.
Re: Visits to flight deck.
My Dear Tart 1...
Alcohol consumed at 35,000 feet has an exaggerated effect on the human brain due to the change in barometric pressure. I'll never know how I got the thing back on the ground...
On June 11th, I posted an open apology for my comments about visits to the flightdeck, so there.
In response to your suggestion that I once asked questions as daft as 'What would happen if I selected 'gear-up' while the aircraft was on the ground...', and; 'do airliners have a reverse gear...?' Of course the answer is YES!
The daftest questions I can ever remember asking on a visit to the cockpit during 1970's holiday flights were:
1) Do pilots have to wear special shoes?
2) Does the co-pilot have to finish his meal before the Captain
can start his, in case the food is poisoned?
Yours truly,
The Cap'n.
Alcohol consumed at 35,000 feet has an exaggerated effect on the human brain due to the change in barometric pressure. I'll never know how I got the thing back on the ground...
On June 11th, I posted an open apology for my comments about visits to the flightdeck, so there.
In response to your suggestion that I once asked questions as daft as 'What would happen if I selected 'gear-up' while the aircraft was on the ground...', and; 'do airliners have a reverse gear...?' Of course the answer is YES!
The daftest questions I can ever remember asking on a visit to the cockpit during 1970's holiday flights were:
1) Do pilots have to wear special shoes?
2) Does the co-pilot have to finish his meal before the Captain
can start his, in case the food is poisoned?
Yours truly,
The Cap'n.