KLM flight turns back to AMS because of "abnormal vibrations" witnessed by PAX
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KLM flight turns back to AMS because of "abnormal vibrations" witnessed by PAX
Apparently yesterday or last night a KLM flight that was due to cross the Atlantic bound for JFK turned back because passengers witnessed "abnormal vibrations" in one of the wings. Cabin crew was alerted, who in turn reported it to the flightdeck. After deliberating with KLM OCC the captain elected to turn back to Schiphol for a precautionary landing.
Granted, passenger observations are never to be neglected (smoke, fire), but how the hell would a PAX be able to tell the difference between normal and abnormal vibrations in the wings? Most people I know are ready to freak out when they see any rate of wing vibration at all.
Granted, passenger observations are never to be neglected (smoke, fire), but how the hell would a PAX be able to tell the difference between normal and abnormal vibrations in the wings? Most people I know are ready to freak out when they see any rate of wing vibration at all.
Last edited by A-FLOOR; 21st Apr 2005 at 07:56.
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but how the hell would a PAX be able to tell the difference between normal and abnormal vibrations in the wings?
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So what is your point??
If my point, some passengers do know enough to spot a problem and not be hysterical about it.
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I am a FQTV and in 2003, I saw a seal detach and depart the inboard flap of an A320 during takeoff. I told the steward who told the FD and the FO came, asked me what I saw and then said no prob, thanks for telling us, we'll report it to maintenance. No hysterics, just good airmanship.
25 years ago, i saw oil running out of the inboard Dart on a Viscount. Same thing.
Two incidents, no hysterics, but safety is no accident and we are all responsible in our own way, expert or non.
I am a FQTV and in 2003, I saw a seal detach and depart the inboard flap of an A320 during takeoff. I told the steward who told the FD and the FO came, asked me what I saw and then said no prob, thanks for telling us, we'll report it to maintenance. No hysterics, just good airmanship.
25 years ago, i saw oil running out of the inboard Dart on a Viscount. Same thing.
Two incidents, no hysterics, but safety is no accident and we are all responsible in our own way, expert or non.
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stream of oil from ryanair 737 200
some time ago i was sat window seat just behind the wing on an old 737-200.
noticed quite a lot of oil coming from the engine cowling, thought nothing of it. after about 15 minutes, oil still coming out at the same rate, i thought i should mention it to the cabin crew.
i did it in such a way as to not alarm anyone more matter of fact. in my experience there seemed to be a bit more coming out than there should be. (yes i know a little oil goes a long way)
cabin crew, "thanks a lot i will tell the flightdeck"
returned short time later, FO looks out of window, goes hmmm a few times and then pronounced - nothing to worry about.
erm, thats about it really. i did wonder how much ryanair must spend on engine oil and maintenance in general.
regards
TFC
noticed quite a lot of oil coming from the engine cowling, thought nothing of it. after about 15 minutes, oil still coming out at the same rate, i thought i should mention it to the cabin crew.
i did it in such a way as to not alarm anyone more matter of fact. in my experience there seemed to be a bit more coming out than there should be. (yes i know a little oil goes a long way)
cabin crew, "thanks a lot i will tell the flightdeck"
returned short time later, FO looks out of window, goes hmmm a few times and then pronounced - nothing to worry about.
erm, thats about it really. i did wonder how much ryanair must spend on engine oil and maintenance in general.
regards
TFC
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Sorry for the long wait, I got this info from a website known to be associated with the Dutch tabloid newspaper De Telegraaf.
Struck me as odd as well not seeing this gem anywhere else... I suppose that answers all of your questions
Struck me as odd as well not seeing this gem anywhere else... I suppose that answers all of your questions
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The news is also published by trouw (novum). Although it is slightly different:
+-babel fish:
last week the plane to mexico has been send back... does anyone believe in conspiracy theories?
Vliegtuig keert terug na knikkende vleugel
(Novum) - De KLM heeft woensdag een vliegtuig terug laten keren naar Schiphol. Passagiers merkten op dat een van de vleugels van het toestel een 'knikkende' beweging maakte. KLM-woordvoerder Hugo Baas zegt donderdag dat de gezagvoerder na inspectie van de co-piloot besloot terug te vliegen naar de luchthaven, hoewel er geen alarmmelding op de apparatuur was te zien.
Het toestel was twintig minuten onderweg en vloog boven de Atlantische Oceaan toen het vermeende euvel werd opgemerkt. De passagiers zijn later alsnog met andere vluchten naar New York vervoerd. Eenmaal aan de grond heeft KLM een onderzoek ingesteld, maar niets vreemds kunnen constateren. Baas houdt de mogelijkheid open dat een condensstreep op de vleugel een reflectie veroorzaakte, waardoor het leek dat de vleugel knikte.
(Novum) - De KLM heeft woensdag een vliegtuig terug laten keren naar Schiphol. Passagiers merkten op dat een van de vleugels van het toestel een 'knikkende' beweging maakte. KLM-woordvoerder Hugo Baas zegt donderdag dat de gezagvoerder na inspectie van de co-piloot besloot terug te vliegen naar de luchthaven, hoewel er geen alarmmelding op de apparatuur was te zien.
Het toestel was twintig minuten onderweg en vloog boven de Atlantische Oceaan toen het vermeende euvel werd opgemerkt. De passagiers zijn later alsnog met andere vluchten naar New York vervoerd. Eenmaal aan de grond heeft KLM een onderzoek ingesteld, maar niets vreemds kunnen constateren. Baas houdt de mogelijkheid open dat een condensstreep op de vleugel een reflectie veroorzaakte, waardoor het leek dat de vleugel knikte.
Plane returns after nodding wing
(Novum) - Wednesday the KLM has returned a plane to Schiphol. Passengers noticed that one of the wings of the plane made a ' nodding ' movement. Klm-spokesman Hugo boss say Thursday that of the after inspection of the copilot decided to the airport, fly back although there was see no reporting of emergency on equipment.
The plane was twenty minutes underway and flew above the Atlantic ocean then the alleged problem was noticed. The passengers have been later still transported with other flights to New York. Once to the ground KLM has established a research, but can observe nothing strange. Boss keeps open the possibility that a line of condensation on the wing caused a reflection, as a result of which seemed that the wing nodded.
(Novum) - Wednesday the KLM has returned a plane to Schiphol. Passengers noticed that one of the wings of the plane made a ' nodding ' movement. Klm-spokesman Hugo boss
say Thursday that of the after inspection of the copilot decided to the airport, fly back although there was see no reporting of emergency on equipment. The plane was twenty minutes underway and flew above the Atlantic ocean then the alleged problem was noticed. The passengers have been later still transported with other flights to New York. Once to the ground KLM has established a research, but can observe nothing strange. Boss keeps open the possibility that a line of condensation on the wing caused a reflection, as a result of which seemed that the wing nodded.
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last week the plane to mexico has been send back... does anyone believe in conspiracy theories?
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it was....
....Flight KL641 Departure Amsterdam - Schiphol Wed 20 Apr 2005 at 14:15 Arrival New York NY - John F. Kennedy Intl
Wed 20 Apr 2005 at 16:10 (bit later though) Aircraft type Boeing 777, crew was swapped, dunno about a/c
Wed 20 Apr 2005 at 16:10 (bit later though) Aircraft type Boeing 777, crew was swapped, dunno about a/c
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Ok this is the official story,
The plane involved was a t7, when the t7 was at the top of climb, a passenger saw "skin-movement" on tof of the wing, above the engine pylon. It was like the upperwing panel was "wobbling" about 2 inches up and down.
This passenger warned the f/a and then the gossip spreaded out thru the cabin.
The co-piloot and captain saw the same and then decided to return to ams.
Next day, the t7 was inspected and it went out for a testflight.
During this flight the t7 was put into a variarity of flight conditions like, heavy banking, fuel dumping, near stalling and put a significant g-force on the plane. There where some moments that there was a boundery layer seperation on the wings what looked the same as the passenger discribed, like you see water flowing on the beach.
So after that you can say that passengers where not aware of a normal airfoil behaviour on a wing.
Don't blame them it is just a aerodynamic speciality to know what it is.
It was a good job of the crew to return to ams for safety reasons.
But there are lessons learned now about this event.
Cheers
The plane involved was a t7, when the t7 was at the top of climb, a passenger saw "skin-movement" on tof of the wing, above the engine pylon. It was like the upperwing panel was "wobbling" about 2 inches up and down.
This passenger warned the f/a and then the gossip spreaded out thru the cabin.
The co-piloot and captain saw the same and then decided to return to ams.
Next day, the t7 was inspected and it went out for a testflight.
During this flight the t7 was put into a variarity of flight conditions like, heavy banking, fuel dumping, near stalling and put a significant g-force on the plane. There where some moments that there was a boundery layer seperation on the wings what looked the same as the passenger discribed, like you see water flowing on the beach.
So after that you can say that passengers where not aware of a normal airfoil behaviour on a wing.
Don't blame them it is just a aerodynamic speciality to know what it is.
It was a good job of the crew to return to ams for safety reasons.
But there are lessons learned now about this event.
Cheers
