Boeings are rubbish
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Boeing aircraft have never really been that good, in my book.
Look at the 737, it almost got cancelled because the -200 was so slow, without the de-ice for taxi-ing it would probably stop.
And as for the 747? It doesn't really suprise me something like this has happened. The early series has a cargo door which isn't fail-safe, and has on two occasions to my knowledge, just given way - whilst at cruising altitude.
Then there was TWA Flight 800. OK, not really a problem anybody could have anticipated, but it did happen on the 747, and it hasn't occured anywhere else. WHY?
Now we're being told about fuems entering the cabin on 757's.
I know that a single company will produce a series which will be a "Black sheep fleet" which will go wrong, but ALL their a/c that a single company have produced?
This is why I no longer fly Boeing Aircraft. Sure that means my airbus won't turn as easily, or my L1011 leaks, but at least they won't be made so badly that major problems like this will occur.
Look at the 737, it almost got cancelled because the -200 was so slow, without the de-ice for taxi-ing it would probably stop.
And as for the 747? It doesn't really suprise me something like this has happened. The early series has a cargo door which isn't fail-safe, and has on two occasions to my knowledge, just given way - whilst at cruising altitude.
Then there was TWA Flight 800. OK, not really a problem anybody could have anticipated, but it did happen on the 747, and it hasn't occured anywhere else. WHY?
Now we're being told about fuems entering the cabin on 757's.
I know that a single company will produce a series which will be a "Black sheep fleet" which will go wrong, but ALL their a/c that a single company have produced?
This is why I no longer fly Boeing Aircraft. Sure that means my airbus won't turn as easily, or my L1011 leaks, but at least they won't be made so badly that major problems like this will occur.
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Boeing
No Casper, Skylark_air is very serious.
I have no clue what you are rambling about. As with every design there are problems and with aging aircraft some unexpected show up. Still Boeing has built a great number of aircraft with relatively little problems. However we are still to see how AB products fair after 30 or 40 years of flying. Only time will tell.
Boeings that I have flown have been generally well designed and well built aircraft, there's a reason that there are B707's still flying around.
Would you care to explain what are "DHD5,6,7" or what is a "BAE 147", all that you claim to fly?? Flight sim pilot would be my guess
JJ
I have no clue what you are rambling about. As with every design there are problems and with aging aircraft some unexpected show up. Still Boeing has built a great number of aircraft with relatively little problems. However we are still to see how AB products fair after 30 or 40 years of flying. Only time will tell.
Sure that means my airbus won't turn as easily, or my L1011 leaks, but at least they won't be made so badly that major problems like this will occur.
Would you care to explain what are "DHD5,6,7" or what is a "BAE 147", all that you claim to fly?? Flight sim pilot would be my guess
JJ
Last edited by JJflyer; 28th Feb 2005 at 04:24.
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Heaven help us! Now we have flightsim imaginary pilots entering into a discussion with inanities. I'm really thinking Pprune should try and keep such twerps out of serious discussion!
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No, I am not going to reply to Skylarks posting. I am not going to do it. I will just take a deep breath and shake my head in disbelieve. 
Very calm, very relaxed. Deep breaths... One... Two.... In... Out... 
Very calm, very relaxed. Deep breaths... One... Two.... In... Out...
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Skylark, do yourself a favor and dont talk crap in an open forum, Boeing make Excellent Aircraft, its some customers who dont maintain them properly and dont compy to service bulletins, dont blame the manufacturer. I Suppose you think Concord was a rubbish product because there was a piece of metal on the runway in Paris. by the way an Airbus will also fall out the sky if its not properly maintained, or have Airbus found ways to stop you falling to your death if the aircraft breaks up in flight?
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>>Boeing aircraft have never really been that good, in my book.
Yep, they will never amount to anything compared to all the great British airliners like the Comet, the Trident and the BAC-111...
Dynasty has gone almost three years without a crash, that is a good thing!
Yep, they will never amount to anything compared to all the great British airliners like the Comet, the Trident and the BAC-111...
Dynasty has gone almost three years without a crash, that is a good thing!
Last edited by Airbubba; 28th Feb 2005 at 09:17.
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In my 32 years as a humble commercial pilot I was lucky enough to fly several types made by Boeing, McDonnel Douglas, Airbus and Fokker.
The only types that had operational limitations imposed on them for structural reasons or that were withdrawn from service for major modifications in that time that I can recall were those built by Boeing:
707
- Use of speedbrake not allowed because of buffeting of the stabiliser. One eventually failed (Dan Air Nairobi) causing a serious rethink of Boeings supposedly fail safe construction.
- Keel beam corrosion.
747
- Flap panels separating.
- Engine limitations because of ovalising of casing.
- Cracks in forward fuselage skin.
- Cracks and premature failure of engine pylons (EL Al Amsterdam)
- Limitations on fuel distribution following TWA centre tank incident.
My impression was that MD's were strong, Airbuses were pure quality built to last, the Fokker was OK but Boeings were flimsy and ready to fall apart.
The only types that had operational limitations imposed on them for structural reasons or that were withdrawn from service for major modifications in that time that I can recall were those built by Boeing:
707
- Use of speedbrake not allowed because of buffeting of the stabiliser. One eventually failed (Dan Air Nairobi) causing a serious rethink of Boeings supposedly fail safe construction.
- Keel beam corrosion.
747
- Flap panels separating.
- Engine limitations because of ovalising of casing.
- Cracks in forward fuselage skin.
- Cracks and premature failure of engine pylons (EL Al Amsterdam)
- Limitations on fuel distribution following TWA centre tank incident.
My impression was that MD's were strong, Airbuses were pure quality built to last, the Fokker was OK but Boeings were flimsy and ready to fall apart.
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ramrise- have we another flightsim pilot pretending to be a professional flyer here? Someone with long experience in the industry should be aware that:
*The Dan Air 707 was the original 707 used extensively by Boeing for flight testing stalls, and this was thought to be the reason for the tailplane fatigue.
*flap panels fall off other aeroplanes- the VC10 experienced several such incidents too-the DC10 even had collapsing leading edge slats if the drive cable broke.
*the ovalising engines was a Pratt & Whitney issue, not Boeing. You are talking back to the days of the original wide fan engines- no wonder new problems arose
*cracks in fuselage skin? Most aeroplanes eventually show up various such problems- 2 DC10s had freight door problems if you remember.
*engine pylon problems- have you forgotten that DC10s were grounded all over the world (1979?) following the AA accident.
DC10s have been criticised for alleged 'weak' points- one of which is supposed to be the fuselage ahead of the tail. You are spouting a load of nonsense. Keel beams on most old aeroplanes need close examination.
Are you sure you are not a fraud like this Skylark_air character? His latest gem is as follows:
<<I remember on a certain British Oldie Aircraft the cabin sometimes traveled at a velocity faster than that of the entire aircraft, so two KIAS Readings were required.>> Take a look at his profile and examine his postings- if this is a professional pilot, I am a kangaroo.
We have reached the situation with imposters where it is like a Surgeons' Professional Forum where people are intervening and interjecting in discussions about patient care and operation procedure pretending to be Surgeons when their only experience of medicine is in playing that Operation Game where you have to remove 'a tap on the knee' without ringing a bell! Would flightsimmers please not intervene with their extensive experience of different Microsoft PC types please!
*The Dan Air 707 was the original 707 used extensively by Boeing for flight testing stalls, and this was thought to be the reason for the tailplane fatigue.
*flap panels fall off other aeroplanes- the VC10 experienced several such incidents too-the DC10 even had collapsing leading edge slats if the drive cable broke.
*the ovalising engines was a Pratt & Whitney issue, not Boeing. You are talking back to the days of the original wide fan engines- no wonder new problems arose
*cracks in fuselage skin? Most aeroplanes eventually show up various such problems- 2 DC10s had freight door problems if you remember.
*engine pylon problems- have you forgotten that DC10s were grounded all over the world (1979?) following the AA accident.
DC10s have been criticised for alleged 'weak' points- one of which is supposed to be the fuselage ahead of the tail. You are spouting a load of nonsense. Keel beams on most old aeroplanes need close examination.
Are you sure you are not a fraud like this Skylark_air character? His latest gem is as follows:
<<I remember on a certain British Oldie Aircraft the cabin sometimes traveled at a velocity faster than that of the entire aircraft, so two KIAS Readings were required.>> Take a look at his profile and examine his postings- if this is a professional pilot, I am a kangaroo.
We have reached the situation with imposters where it is like a Surgeons' Professional Forum where people are intervening and interjecting in discussions about patient care and operation procedure pretending to be Surgeons when their only experience of medicine is in playing that Operation Game where you have to remove 'a tap on the knee' without ringing a bell! Would flightsimmers please not intervene with their extensive experience of different Microsoft PC types please!
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Greetings.
I've been lurking around this forum for almost two years now but had kept a low profile since there is little I can submit from my humble but avid flight simulator background. Until today, I was here to learn.
I felt the need to register because I have two comments I would like to bring forward. First of all I am concerned with the explicit agressiveness that has come up towards us flight simmers on this thread. I understand the reaction to Skylarks' comments as they seem indeed unfounded and conflict oriented. However, the fact that this fellow is lost in his own uninformed rethoric doesn't mean he has to come from a flightsim background. I consider myself pretty well informed after almost ten years of dedication not only to flight simulators but also to all the literature I can find regarding flight, real or simulated. Many RW pilots who have so kindly shared their jumpseats with me also seem to think so.
My opinion is that we can all engage in productive conversation no matter from which perspective we approach our common interest. Let's not get carried away by the paradigm of the "wannabe" flight simmers. Many of us did not have the silver, the health or the guts to pursue a career en real aviation. Please don't discriminate us because of that. Oh, I almost forgot, we are in Pprunes Wannabe forum (Balcony?) so we should feel a bit more at ease here, dont you think?
The second comment is unrelated. It has to do with a very long and well recieved thread that if I'm not wrong, was in the jetblast forum, about a military pilot who was writting his memories in a very pleasant way while he fought a battle with cancer (Chill on my spine?). It suddenly disappeared. Any news?
Thanks and sorry for the rant.
Maurice.
I've been lurking around this forum for almost two years now but had kept a low profile since there is little I can submit from my humble but avid flight simulator background. Until today, I was here to learn.
I felt the need to register because I have two comments I would like to bring forward. First of all I am concerned with the explicit agressiveness that has come up towards us flight simmers on this thread. I understand the reaction to Skylarks' comments as they seem indeed unfounded and conflict oriented. However, the fact that this fellow is lost in his own uninformed rethoric doesn't mean he has to come from a flightsim background. I consider myself pretty well informed after almost ten years of dedication not only to flight simulators but also to all the literature I can find regarding flight, real or simulated. Many RW pilots who have so kindly shared their jumpseats with me also seem to think so.
My opinion is that we can all engage in productive conversation no matter from which perspective we approach our common interest. Let's not get carried away by the paradigm of the "wannabe" flight simmers. Many of us did not have the silver, the health or the guts to pursue a career en real aviation. Please don't discriminate us because of that. Oh, I almost forgot, we are in Pprunes Wannabe forum (Balcony?) so we should feel a bit more at ease here, dont you think?
The second comment is unrelated. It has to do with a very long and well recieved thread that if I'm not wrong, was in the jetblast forum, about a military pilot who was writting his memories in a very pleasant way while he fought a battle with cancer (Chill on my spine?). It suddenly disappeared. Any news?
Thanks and sorry for the rant.
Maurice.
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fs_freak!
- welcome, and I hope you stay!
If I may turn your post around?
Firstly let me reassure you (and all) that the thread on the life of 'Duke Elegant' lives on here
Secondly, let me also reassure you (and all) that while I, and, I'm sure', Ppprune Pop, still draw breath and exercise stewardship of this forum, that FS Simmers and all 'enthusiasts' are welcome here. Posts which seem to be 'silly' WILL attract flak, but it should be remembered that those 'amateur' flyers who venture in here do get huge benefit from the 'professional' flyers who do the same and answer their enquiries. It is not, perhaps, surprising, that the 'professionals' sometimes forget where they are and let loose when something drives them up the wall, and I have to ask the 'amateurs' to be big boys and girls and not to run away hurt.
Pop and I will always seek to see fair play
Until today, I was here to learn
If I may turn your post around?
Firstly let me reassure you (and all) that the thread on the life of 'Duke Elegant' lives on here
Secondly, let me also reassure you (and all) that while I, and, I'm sure', Ppprune Pop, still draw breath and exercise stewardship of this forum, that FS Simmers and all 'enthusiasts' are welcome here. Posts which seem to be 'silly' WILL attract flak, but it should be remembered that those 'amateur' flyers who venture in here do get huge benefit from the 'professional' flyers who do the same and answer their enquiries. It is not, perhaps, surprising, that the 'professionals' sometimes forget where they are and let loose when something drives them up the wall, and I have to ask the 'amateurs' to be big boys and girls and not to run away hurt.
Pop and I will always seek to see fair play
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fs_freak, I am in no way trying to intimidate any flightsim afficionado. But I do take violently against a fraud trying to pretend he is a professional pilot spouting advice, when almost everything that comes from that source is total nonsense. Take a look at Skylarks profile, look at the postings. This is a person who knows nothing more about aeroplanes than what comes from MS flightsimulator. Here is another one about sparking wheels:
<< As a Dash-8 pilot by profession, and I've heard of this happening on a few occasions. It is common for this to happen, but nothing to worry about, because the aircraft travels too slowly, and the landing is far too bumpy for it to effect the aircraft.
It's probably been caused by wear-and-tear. The worst damage sparks could do to the D8 from the N-Gear would probably be wearing the tyres, and making them a bit on the hot side. It isn't anything to worry about unless somebody has left a lot of fuel on the runway, causing an explosion...which is very unlikely, unless Jeremy Clarkson Drives that Porsche he got for £1500, on the runway, more often than constantly.
Only report this incident if there was more than one spark
Hope this puts your mind to rest...>>
I am a 34 year BA jet pilot. I can spot hot air a mile away. But seeing advice coming from this person, it is time to draw the line. I am a flight sim fan myself- I am a frequent user of a US flightsim forum- my own favourite is IL2 Forgotten Battles, and in that forum, I meekly ask advice and am only too willing to accept advice from people who know more than me. I also frequently comment with people on how 'real' their simulation experience is. But I don't go there pretending I am a flightsim expert- neither should a schoolboy come here pretending to be an experienced pilot and handing out advice!
<< As a Dash-8 pilot by profession, and I've heard of this happening on a few occasions. It is common for this to happen, but nothing to worry about, because the aircraft travels too slowly, and the landing is far too bumpy for it to effect the aircraft.
It's probably been caused by wear-and-tear. The worst damage sparks could do to the D8 from the N-Gear would probably be wearing the tyres, and making them a bit on the hot side. It isn't anything to worry about unless somebody has left a lot of fuel on the runway, causing an explosion...which is very unlikely, unless Jeremy Clarkson Drives that Porsche he got for £1500, on the runway, more often than constantly.
Only report this incident if there was more than one spark
Hope this puts your mind to rest...>>
I am a 34 year BA jet pilot. I can spot hot air a mile away. But seeing advice coming from this person, it is time to draw the line. I am a flight sim fan myself- I am a frequent user of a US flightsim forum- my own favourite is IL2 Forgotten Battles, and in that forum, I meekly ask advice and am only too willing to accept advice from people who know more than me. I also frequently comment with people on how 'real' their simulation experience is. But I don't go there pretending I am a flightsim expert- neither should a schoolboy come here pretending to be an experienced pilot and handing out advice!
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Reading through skylark-air's posts after a search, the pattern is clear. He makes a reply to a topic (claiming to be a pilot) for a few posts others pick holes in what he says, he very rarely replies again to a particular topic (to try and defend the indefensible?)
I think that what has happened is that we've reached a critical number of posts from skylark, enough people have seen his posts on other threads to be wary for next time. Next time has come.
So will skylark-air make an apperance again on this topic? perhaps to apologise or even to prove that he is an ATPL?
You never know he could have been an ATPL all along with a twisted sense of humour.
I think that what has happened is that we've reached a critical number of posts from skylark, enough people have seen his posts on other threads to be wary for next time. Next time has come.
So will skylark-air make an apperance again on this topic? perhaps to apologise or even to prove that he is an ATPL?
You never know he could have been an ATPL all along with a twisted sense of humour.
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For 'Rainboe' and 'PW' - I have not had the time or the inclination to trawl through the posts to which you refer. If they were posted here, 'that's life' as they say, and you can always put 'Skylark' on your 'ignore' list as many people have done with other posters on many forums. (Click on 'profile' and select on the bottom bar).
He/she may, as you say, be an ATPL with 35 years line flying, and having a laugh, or a complete 'wannabee', but does it really matter? The 'no crossing' lines are a little bit wider spaced on this forum than R&N.
He/she may, as you say, be an ATPL with 35 years line flying, and having a laugh, or a complete 'wannabee', but does it really matter? The 'no crossing' lines are a little bit wider spaced on this forum than R&N.
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<This is a person who knows nothing more about aeroplanes than what comes from MS flightsimulator>
That's exactly my point Rainboe. If you allow me, I would say this is a person who knows MUCH LESS about aeroplanes than what comes from the basic version of MS flightsimulator. As a flightsimmer yourself you should be impressed by the ammount of general and technical aviation concepts that are being discussed in depth in our forums, many times with the aid of RW pilots. Even newbies in FS have done enough reading to surpass Skylark's widest dreams.
Don't get me wrong. I am not offended by your post and fully understand your frustration. I'd like to thank you and all the others who answered my post. Oh! and please excuse my "spanglish".
Cheers.
Maurice.
That's exactly my point Rainboe. If you allow me, I would say this is a person who knows MUCH LESS about aeroplanes than what comes from the basic version of MS flightsimulator. As a flightsimmer yourself you should be impressed by the ammount of general and technical aviation concepts that are being discussed in depth in our forums, many times with the aid of RW pilots. Even newbies in FS have done enough reading to surpass Skylark's widest dreams.
Don't get me wrong. I am not offended by your post and fully understand your frustration. I'd like to thank you and all the others who answered my post. Oh! and please excuse my "spanglish".
Cheers.
Maurice.
