A380 Passenger EVAC announcement
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well I would assume that all survivors got off, else they must still be in their seats.
Rebel PPRuNer
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JAFO33
very interesting post. Worth considering whether seats would be better placed facing in the direction of the nearest exit.
F = facing forwards, R = facing rear
Exit Exit
FFF FFF
FFF FFF
FFF FFF
RRR RRR
RRR RRR
RRR RRR
Exit Exit
FFF FFF
FFF FFF
FFF FFF etc.
This would also have the effect of creating more exit row seats
Has anyone done trials of something like this?
very interesting post. Worth considering whether seats would be better placed facing in the direction of the nearest exit.
F = facing forwards, R = facing rear
Exit Exit
FFF FFF
FFF FFF
FFF FFF
RRR RRR
RRR RRR
RRR RRR
Exit Exit
FFF FFF
FFF FFF
FFF FFF etc.
This would also have the effect of creating more exit row seats
Has anyone done trials of something like this?
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Although the A380 is an extreme case, the evac tests of all aircraft fall short of a true test of the chaos of a real crash and risk injuring the testers.
When the DeHavilland was certifying the Dash 8, the pilot escaped through the roof-hatch on a rope. During the test, he snagged his b@lls on the pitot tube!! Not a happy man, and his wife wasn't pleased either.
If you are concerned about dodgy certification tests, what about the idea of ditching a large jet! Fortunately it is done by simulation, but the idea that the airrcaft could actually ditch intact is ridiculous.
When the DeHavilland was certifying the Dash 8, the pilot escaped through the roof-hatch on a rope. During the test, he snagged his b@lls on the pitot tube!! Not a happy man, and his wife wasn't pleased either.
If you are concerned about dodgy certification tests, what about the idea of ditching a large jet! Fortunately it is done by simulation, but the idea that the airrcaft could actually ditch intact is ridiculous.
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The truth is that 90 seconds is generous. Everyone in aviation that truly knows the reality understands that 20 seconds is generous in an uncontrolled landing with survivors trying to get out of a gradually building fire within the cabin.
Your first post stated that this test will result in the deaths of some of the participants. Later posts, by others, stated that the test is not realistic enough.
What I tried to say is that this test is not supposed to be realistic but rather to provide data that will confirm what would happen in a realistic situation under risks we can accept.
I also ventured to say, and I think we agree, that for situations where you don’t have 90+ seconds to evacuate everyone any lower number will actually only make a difference of a few persons, important to them but not to the statistics…. Possibly the time it takes to get the first person out will be too long.
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...If only we could get rid of 50% of 747 focal's tedious anti-airbus posts every 90 seconds. Change the record. you don't seem to do anything but trawl for any item to do with the 380 and try to put a negative slant on it. Why not stop wasting everyone's time.
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Onan - Shame on you!
MarkD - for years most engineers have known that rearward-facing seats are safer. It works on trains. But as many other posters said, most people don't want to face backwards. Me, I'm quite happy to, but I don't think you could sell it to the vast majority.
And as for ditching, well surely opening the doors all depends on how well the fuselage stands up to the impact. I wonder how much impact would distort the fuselage and prevent doors being opened?
MarkD - for years most engineers have known that rearward-facing seats are safer. It works on trains. But as many other posters said, most people don't want to face backwards. Me, I'm quite happy to, but I don't think you could sell it to the vast majority.
And as for ditching, well surely opening the doors all depends on how well the fuselage stands up to the impact. I wonder how much impact would distort the fuselage and prevent doors being opened?
I'matightbastard
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Facing backwards really only a problem on climb out and has the added advantage of affording you the opportunity to look up someone's skirt 
Why don't they just put the seat on gimbals?
As for "how well would the a/c stand up to a ditching?"
look here: http://zeeb.at/oops/oops9.jpg
Why don't they just put the seat on gimbals?
As for "how well would the a/c stand up to a ditching?"
look here: http://zeeb.at/oops/oops9.jpg
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What jaffo33 said is quite true. Pax boarding through one door happens regularly. The pax who boarded the British Midland Kegworth flight all boarded on a jet bridge from the front. And when it came to evacuating the a/c most tried to leave through the door they came in (ie the front) as that is what they were familar with. Even though there was a great big hole at at the back of the cabin.
Doing the demo day in day out, very few actually look at the other exit doors, only the door they boarded through and familarise themselves with that door regardless of which exit is nearer. And that makes me wonder if human nature inhibits people to use exits that they have not boarded through, or taken the time to visualise, because they are not familar with that exit route?
So perhaps Mark D susgestion of facing the seats so they point to their nearest exit would help?
Human nature is funny at the best of times so understress and confussion we opt for the eaisest solution to our problems, using the door they came in through would spring to mind first for planning their evacuation in an emergency. Would any phsycologist (is that even spelt right?) agree?
EB
Doing the demo day in day out, very few actually look at the other exit doors, only the door they boarded through and familarise themselves with that door regardless of which exit is nearer. And that makes me wonder if human nature inhibits people to use exits that they have not boarded through, or taken the time to visualise, because they are not familar with that exit route?
So perhaps Mark D susgestion of facing the seats so they point to their nearest exit would help?
Human nature is funny at the best of times so understress and confussion we opt for the eaisest solution to our problems, using the door they came in through would spring to mind first for planning their evacuation in an emergency. Would any phsycologist (is that even spelt right?) agree?
EB
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This is a interesting thread forgetting the ever present Boeing vs, Airbus positions. What is new to all of us, is that this A-380 megajumbo airliner is an aircraft made mostly of materials that have very particular flashpoints and incendiary properties. Don't assume that your aircraft hull will stand after an emergency landing as some other jumbos do. It would be interesting to hear the opinion of the Australian Aviation Authority who I know, have done extensive research into dealing with fires of aircraft with composites and carbon fibers. Maybe this exercise in the evacuation in 90 seconds will only be an academic one and the realworld scenario will have to deal with a plastic fireball like the one you see when a Corvette hits a tree at 90 mph.
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FLYING BLIND FLYING SAFE by MARY SCHIAVO
LETS NOT KID OURSELVES...MONEY PREVAILS OVER SAFETY, CALL IT WHAT YOU WILL, COMPANIES PURCHASING THE 380 OR 787 THINK ECONOMICAL RETURN AND RESULTS FIRST AND DEATH STATISTICS SECONDARY (AT BEST)...LET THE INSURANCE COMPANIES SORT OUT THE MESS LATER...HEY, HAS EVERYONE FORGOTTEN THE BOOK " FLYING BLIND, FLYING SAFE "NO LONGER AVAILABLE ONLY A MONTH AFTER ITS PUBLICATION BACK IN 1997?
QUOTE: "THE BIBLE MAY TEACH THAT HUMAN LIFE IS PRICELESS, BUT WE ALL KNOW THE VALUE OF THE BODY´S MINERALS IS ABOUT EIGHT DOLLARS." TO SUM IT UP, " WE REGULATE BY COUNTING TOMBSTONES, AN FAA OFFICAL TOLD A JOURNALIST A FEW YEARS AGO."
QUOTE: "THE BIBLE MAY TEACH THAT HUMAN LIFE IS PRICELESS, BUT WE ALL KNOW THE VALUE OF THE BODY´S MINERALS IS ABOUT EIGHT DOLLARS." TO SUM IT UP, " WE REGULATE BY COUNTING TOMBSTONES, AN FAA OFFICAL TOLD A JOURNALIST A FEW YEARS AGO."
The interesting thing behind this article is that there are scientific studies on crowd behavior and exits.
What I haven't seen is any effort by aviation authorities or the a/c designers to take advantage of this knowledge or direct research to improving evacuations -- I will be most pleased to be proved wrong.
Guardian article on IKEA Crush
What I haven't seen is any effort by aviation authorities or the a/c designers to take advantage of this knowledge or direct research to improving evacuations -- I will be most pleased to be proved wrong.
Guardian article on IKEA Crush
Thread Starter
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ShotOne,
If you looked around I say far more around here on other topics than the A380 or any other airbus product. When I see something interesting to me from an aviation standpoint I post it. By the amount of responses I would say that a lot of other people find them interesting as well.
Where are all your exciting posts?
If you looked around I say far more around here on other topics than the A380 or any other airbus product. When I see something interesting to me from an aviation standpoint I post it. By the amount of responses I would say that a lot of other people find them interesting as well.
Where are all your exciting posts?
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Anyone have an e-mail address for the folks at Airbus so we can send them a copy of this and other anti-'bus threads.
Who knows, after the 'bus management takes takes look at the wisdom posted by the "experts" in this forum the 380 program just might be scrapped.
WRL
Who knows, after the 'bus management takes takes look at the wisdom posted by the "experts" in this forum the 380 program just might be scrapped.
WRL
RatherBeFlying - there is some interesting scientific research on evacuation dynamics. Take a look at this thread...
Smaller seat pitch leads to faster evacuation?
Smaller seat pitch leads to faster evacuation?
Missed that one stagger
Good information -- Thanks
Good information -- Thanks