F15 Eagle gets lost on the way to Biggin?
Thread Starter
F15 Eagle gets lost on the way to Biggin?
I was at the Biggin Hill show yesterday (Sunday) and heard a rather perplexing announcement from the commentary box, it might just have been a bit of commentator humour but maybe someone could clarify......
Toward the end of the day, 3 F15 Eagles from Lakenheath performed a spirited display, however the commentator mentioned that there should have been 4 but one had got lost on the way from Lakenheath!
...is this true? In light of the B52/unplanned display at Blackbushe, it seems a little odd, surely even the sort of basic GPS you'd plant on your car dashboard would prevent this from happening and ATC in the south east of England must be able to get a multi squillion dollar uber-fighter from one end of East Anglia to another? Maybe it just went tech and returned to base...anyone?
PS Before anyone takes a swipe I'm not having a go at our US friends because I know we're not exactly perfect either!
Toward the end of the day, 3 F15 Eagles from Lakenheath performed a spirited display, however the commentator mentioned that there should have been 4 but one had got lost on the way from Lakenheath!
...is this true? In light of the B52/unplanned display at Blackbushe, it seems a little odd, surely even the sort of basic GPS you'd plant on your car dashboard would prevent this from happening and ATC in the south east of England must be able to get a multi squillion dollar uber-fighter from one end of East Anglia to another? Maybe it just went tech and returned to base...anyone?
PS Before anyone takes a swipe I'm not having a go at our US friends because I know we're not exactly perfect either!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<<I was at the Biggin Hill show yesterday (Sunday) and heard a rather perplexing announcement from the commentary box, it might just have been a bit of commentator humour but maybe someone could clarify......>>
I wonder if that was the same bloke who was "commentating" at Farnborough this year? Sounds like it.
I don't suppose too many people know the real story about the B-52 at Farnborough.. but plenty of speculation!
I wonder if that was the same bloke who was "commentating" at Farnborough this year? Sounds like it.
I don't suppose too many people know the real story about the B-52 at Farnborough.. but plenty of speculation!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Quote :- "I don't suppose too many people know the real story about the B-52 at Farnborough.. but plenty of speculation!"
Pray enlighten us Mr Director."
'Fraid not El Grifo..
Pray enlighten us Mr Director."
'Fraid not El Grifo..
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Wet Coast
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm the pilot who flew the B-52 over Farnborough and "missed" the airfield. We just got back from England yesterday. I had no idea anyone would be that interested in it. Anyway, this is what really happened. Prior to flying, we were briefed that we would be able to navigate on our own to the airfield and were given a time to be there...no big deal. Our Navigator had a great plan that would have had us directly over the field within 5 seconds of our briefed time (naturally). However, once we started talking to the Farnborough radar controller, he began to vector us around his airspace in order to sequence us in for our pass, something that was NEVER briefed to us. Once the controller was ready, he informed us that he was bringing us in for our pass and we pushed up the airspeed to our briefed "high-speed" flyby speed of 350 KIAS. At that airspeed the B-52 has a normal standard turn radius of about 3.5 - 4 miles. Having heard the controller's side of the story, he didn't anticipate this large turn radius. Consequently, when he attempted to line us up on the runway (or turn us on to final) it was too late and our large turn radius rolled us out well away from the field (it just happened to be near that other airfield...which we saw and turned to avoid). I don't blame the controller, he just didn't expect us to make such a wide turn. Anyway, that's what happened.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Behind the P2
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was at Farnborough on the Thursday and the B52 certainly did not miss the airfield. Could see him loitering at a distance awaiting his slot and the pass was almost directly over the main runway. Most impressive. What may have happened after his pass at 350kts...???
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<<Hmmm....doesn't fit the profile I saw!
Strong whiff of bu****it.>>
So, Mr IDC, what did you see? The description from the B-52 guy is precisely what happened!!!!!!
Strong whiff of bu****it.>>
So, Mr IDC, what did you see? The description from the B-52 guy is precisely what happened!!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That certainly fits the bill with what I saw and heard on the radio. However what was interesting, and what many people didn't pick up on was that the incident happened twice. On the Monday the B52 didn't get as far as Blackebushe, and was able to correct and display over the last half of Farnborough's runway. This was thankfully interpreted as part of the display by the vast majority of people without access to a scanner!
On the Tuesday the most publicised of the two incidents happened whereby the B52 "displayed" over Blackebushe, without any chance to rectify the mistake.
By the Wednesday the message had obviously filtered through, and the correct speed was maintained in the turn.
On the Tuesday the most publicised of the two incidents happened whereby the B52 "displayed" over Blackebushe, without any chance to rectify the mistake.
By the Wednesday the message had obviously filtered through, and the correct speed was maintained in the turn.
Thread Starter
I hadn't intended to re-light the debate about the B52, that said - some interesting replies which I hadn't read elsewhere.
I assume because no more comment has come forward about the original (F15) post, it was perhaps a case of a bit of 'insider humour' for those who frequent the airshow circuit, of which I'm generally not one - so sorry I didn't get it, what a gullible t%ss%r I am!!
I assume because no more comment has come forward about the original (F15) post, it was perhaps a case of a bit of 'insider humour' for those who frequent the airshow circuit, of which I'm generally not one - so sorry I didn't get it, what a gullible t%ss%r I am!!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As the guy who was working the F15's at Biggin I can categorically say that NO one did not get lost.
Why only three turned up I do not know but would assume a last minute technical problem would be the likely cause.
I would not call 2 fly-bys a particularly spirited display though.
Regards
SATCO Biggin
Why only three turned up I do not know but would assume a last minute technical problem would be the likely cause.
I would not call 2 fly-bys a particularly spirited display though.
Regards
SATCO Biggin
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ATCO Two...
Amazing what we can do without you seeing!!!
On Saturday they were 'rained off' but did get as close as the Thames Estuary working TC Mil on UHF. The plan being to drop them out of CAS at that point and transfer them to Biggin UHF (299.8 allocated at the last minute).
On Sunday they ran VFR through the FIR all the way. Our limited range portable UHF managed to make contact as they passed the DET area. A bit of stooging around north Kent was required to make their display slot but they eventually positioned through the ALKIN area to run in along Rwy 21.
Suprised you didn't notice a 7000 squawk doing 450 knots wandering around below your RVA.
Amazing what we can do without you seeing!!!
On Saturday they were 'rained off' but did get as close as the Thames Estuary working TC Mil on UHF. The plan being to drop them out of CAS at that point and transfer them to Biggin UHF (299.8 allocated at the last minute).
On Sunday they ran VFR through the FIR all the way. Our limited range portable UHF managed to make contact as they passed the DET area. A bit of stooging around north Kent was required to make their display slot but they eventually positioned through the ALKIN area to run in along Rwy 21.
Suprised you didn't notice a 7000 squawk doing 450 knots wandering around below your RVA.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hampshire UK
Age: 70
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi PM,
I spoke with the Military Controller on the Saturday, but as we have no UHF and he was unable to control below 5000ft, there was a bit of a problem! On the Sunday I must have blinked and missed them!
I spoke with the Military Controller on the Saturday, but as we have no UHF and he was unable to control below 5000ft, there was a bit of a problem! On the Sunday I must have blinked and missed them!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I spoke with the Military Controller on the Saturday, but as we have no UHF and he was unable to control below 5000ft,
I did get a bit twitched about the likelyhood of 'friendly fire' without radar cover though
I had visions of their entire show being held at Kenley gliding site.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: No longer a hot and sandy place....but back to the UK for an indefinite period
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember a few years ago, a Belgian F16 mistook Kenley airfield for Biggin Hill and gave the Air Cadets gliding school a few scary moments!
BFB
BFB
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: R4808E
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
F-15s getting lost?
Did I read on another thread that the RAF Tornado F3 started it's display off Walton on the Naze instead of Clacton on Sea?
When I flew in from AMS to LTN a couple of weeks ago it looked an easy mistake to make, they both have a pier don't they?
Did I read on another thread that the RAF Tornado F3 started it's display off Walton on the Naze instead of Clacton on Sea?
When I flew in from AMS to LTN a couple of weeks ago it looked an easy mistake to make, they both have a pier don't they?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would not call 2 fly-bys a particularly spirited display though.
Bit of an anti-climax IMHO.Rest of the show was vintage though - consistency was such that it wouldn't be fair to single one participant out, jolly good display all round I thought
The Fresh Start Club
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Talking of F-16's (Belgian ones at that).........
Hovering at 2000 ft (close to the M20 in Kent) and with a cry of "Traffic.....Traffic....." I saw a Belgian F-16 on route to Biggin. It crossed the TCAS at a rate of knots and went through the TRA even faster. Had he/she known, I'm sure nothing more than a simple european shrug of the shoulders would have ensued, and maybe a nice box of belgian chocolates!
Coming back along the M25 south abeam Biggin, and scrubbing along under the cloud, we could only just see over the ridge and Biggin was invisible. I hope the Tornado that was mid display at the time had better weather over the airfield, or was he utillising the TFR?
Shame to have missed the show, although better weather would have been good.
WP
Hovering at 2000 ft (close to the M20 in Kent) and with a cry of "Traffic.....Traffic....." I saw a Belgian F-16 on route to Biggin. It crossed the TCAS at a rate of knots and went through the TRA even faster. Had he/she known, I'm sure nothing more than a simple european shrug of the shoulders would have ensued, and maybe a nice box of belgian chocolates!
Coming back along the M25 south abeam Biggin, and scrubbing along under the cloud, we could only just see over the ridge and Biggin was invisible. I hope the Tornado that was mid display at the time had better weather over the airfield, or was he utillising the TFR?
Shame to have missed the show, although better weather would have been good.
WP