Desert flying
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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Desert flying
I am writing a novel and I have a couple of questions about flying in semi arid areas.
1. If you were operating a Beech 1900 or EMB bandit type aircraft, say in Savannah type regions can you get them down on grass/dirt type strips or are they restricted to concrete type surfaces.
2. Is there any ATC coverage in these type of remote areas?, I am thinking primarily of Africa. Would any comms be available, especially if you got into trouble?
Cheers for any help.
1. If you were operating a Beech 1900 or EMB bandit type aircraft, say in Savannah type regions can you get them down on grass/dirt type strips or are they restricted to concrete type surfaces.
2. Is there any ATC coverage in these type of remote areas?, I am thinking primarily of Africa. Would any comms be available, especially if you got into trouble?
Cheers for any help.
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I worked in Africa, albeit 35 years ago, dealing with aircraft flying into desert oil camps. Once they were about 20 miles out they changed to HF communication and maintained that whilst in the desert. There was no ATC, as such, because it was in uncontrolled airspace. We provided an FIS and alerting service and they would transmit "ops normal" every 30 mins and advise when landing and departing.
Things are probably differentnowadays although the above may be close to the truth in some areas still.
Things are probably differentnowadays although the above may be close to the truth in some areas still.
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Join Date: Nov 1999
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You can get a 1900 or Bandit into dirt strips, depends on the length. You can get all sorts into dirt strips, we've operated jet airliners off dirt stripsin the past. Check length & load, as mentioned before.
ATC over the Libyan desert once you've left Tripoli approach 120.9 for Tripoli Control or Cairo Control HF 11300Mhz the comms are difficult but not impossible. Hate to try and get a Mayday in though. In the desert the traffic is the VFR stuff for the oil fields, a couple of Porters and a couple of Twotters. They are mostly early birds and get done by the afternoon by which time it gets a bit bumpy at low level. Theres a couple of Dash-8s doing the rounds during the day and an F28 too. Theres IFR traffic North South at higher levels which you could possibly raise on 126.9, the IATA frequency, aircraft are obliged to give position reports at every waypoint. In central africa you have the onerous Brazzaville control on HF... Your chances in Africa of raising help outside of terminal zones via radio are difficult on HF but not impossible, but you would probably be able to raise another aircraft on 126.9 VHF, there are a surprising number floating around, high and low-level.
Theres a lot of terminal areas around too, they operate on VHF- best to get a Jepp Hi-Lo chart and you'll see who you will be able to talk to along your route. Remember VHF range in nm is 1.25 times the square root of your height in feet. After this distance from your terminal, you're on HF. And when your'e on the ground, your height in feet is about six
the biggest danger in some places is actally having them find you
ATC over the Libyan desert once you've left Tripoli approach 120.9 for Tripoli Control or Cairo Control HF 11300Mhz the comms are difficult but not impossible. Hate to try and get a Mayday in though. In the desert the traffic is the VFR stuff for the oil fields, a couple of Porters and a couple of Twotters. They are mostly early birds and get done by the afternoon by which time it gets a bit bumpy at low level. Theres a couple of Dash-8s doing the rounds during the day and an F28 too. Theres IFR traffic North South at higher levels which you could possibly raise on 126.9, the IATA frequency, aircraft are obliged to give position reports at every waypoint. In central africa you have the onerous Brazzaville control on HF... Your chances in Africa of raising help outside of terminal zones via radio are difficult on HF but not impossible, but you would probably be able to raise another aircraft on 126.9 VHF, there are a surprising number floating around, high and low-level.
Theres a lot of terminal areas around too, they operate on VHF- best to get a Jepp Hi-Lo chart and you'll see who you will be able to talk to along your route. Remember VHF range in nm is 1.25 times the square root of your height in feet. After this distance from your terminal, you're on HF. And when your'e on the ground, your height in feet is about six
the biggest danger in some places is actally having them find you
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Yep used to operate a Bandeirante onto a dirt/gravel strip in Karumba, QLD Australia.
It got entertaining during the Wet season when the main strip would be waterlogged and we had to use the grass covered strip. Slowing down was fun too. Missing the wallabies was part of the game.
HF radio was required to cancel/activate SAR watch.
It got entertaining during the Wet season when the main strip would be waterlogged and we had to use the grass covered strip. Slowing down was fun too. Missing the wallabies was part of the game.
HF radio was required to cancel/activate SAR watch.
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just out of interest. Would you get another aircraft (if it was in range and tuned in, which as i understand most do when they have two sets) on 121.5 VHF? or is that a european thing?
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If you have enough VHF sets. Usually you only have 2 so one's on 126.9 and the other on the last/current/next VHF station you're on. For long sectors, when on HF, one VHF can be on 126.9 the other on 121.5.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
When I was operating out in the bush (Australia) (ie remote areas) we used to keep COM 2 on 121.5 if we weren't using it for something else. More often than not COM 2 was monitoring the MBZ/CTAF prior to arrival when I was flying pacier stuff.
Props are for boats!
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Isnt 126.9 a sort of Unicom for Africa OCTA Outside Controlled Airspace.
Have been to few places that have bad coverage even HF. I was Based in Hall Creek W.A. once, flying a C310R. Flew down to Yagga yagga, landed tried to Cancel my SAR with Perth Flight Service on HF, couldnt raise them on anything, so I tried Adelaide Flight Service got them easy they used to have a HF broadcast Station at Tennant Creek. Funny enough they didnt know where I was when I said "Cancel SAR Yagga yagga" so had to reply " spelling Yankee alpha Golf Golf Alpha" they knew then
HF is a funny animal.
Havent used HF ,where I am at the moment allthough sometimes I wish I had it. Trying to talk to Kingston Centre at or below F220 can be a struggle on VHF. Unfortunately HF is rarety on US G.A. machines
Sheep
Have been to few places that have bad coverage even HF. I was Based in Hall Creek W.A. once, flying a C310R. Flew down to Yagga yagga, landed tried to Cancel my SAR with Perth Flight Service on HF, couldnt raise them on anything, so I tried Adelaide Flight Service got them easy they used to have a HF broadcast Station at Tennant Creek. Funny enough they didnt know where I was when I said "Cancel SAR Yagga yagga" so had to reply " spelling Yankee alpha Golf Golf Alpha" they knew then
HF is a funny animal.
Havent used HF ,where I am at the moment allthough sometimes I wish I had it. Trying to talk to Kingston Centre at or below F220 can be a struggle on VHF. Unfortunately HF is rarety on US G.A. machines
Sheep
