helicopters buzzing around heathrow approaches
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helicopters buzzing around heathrow approaches
who 'polices' helicopters around the approaches to Heathrow? I regularly see them flying across / between / alongside aircraft coming into Heathrow, closer than I would think is safe. Who looks after this / what are the rules??
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Sheenboy.
The helicopters will be under the control of Heathrow Special VFR. When they need to cross the runways at Heathrow they will talk to the Tower. The rules about height and routings are very strict and safe. You need to speak to the Heathrow Director who is the expert on these maters.
I will PM him.
Clint.
The helicopters will be under the control of Heathrow Special VFR. When they need to cross the runways at Heathrow they will talk to the Tower. The rules about height and routings are very strict and safe. You need to speak to the Heathrow Director who is the expert on these maters.
I will PM him.
Clint.
Last edited by Mr_Grubby; 19th Jun 2004 at 12:15.
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Hi Sheenboy. Mr ex-colleague Mr Grubby suggested i take a look at your post.
Helicopter operations within the London area are strictly controlled and, with one or two exceptions, take place on accurately defined routes. Those you see under the approaches to Heathrow will be vertically separated from the commercial jets above with never less than 1,000 feet between them. Over central London the Heathrow inbounds will be around 3,000 ft and the helicopters down around 1,000 ft so there is plenty of room between them.
The rules for helicopter operations within the London Control Zone are laid down the in the AIP.
Hope this helps but email me direct at [email protected] if I can answer any more queries.
Helicopter operations within the London area are strictly controlled and, with one or two exceptions, take place on accurately defined routes. Those you see under the approaches to Heathrow will be vertically separated from the commercial jets above with never less than 1,000 feet between them. Over central London the Heathrow inbounds will be around 3,000 ft and the helicopters down around 1,000 ft so there is plenty of room between them.
The rules for helicopter operations within the London Control Zone are laid down the in the AIP.
Hope this helps but email me direct at [email protected] if I can answer any more queries.
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Hi Heathrow Director and all
I understand from what sheenboy has said to be the crossing of the airport by helicopters at the thresholds ( am I correct sheenboy) , I was at the visitors centre last weekend and watches a precession of helicopters during the day
which I found facinating
From that a couple of questions
1 can any helicopter pilot with a PPL use this route? as it seems to me that a very high standard of airmanship is required
2 what is the prefered crossing procedure
as I presume a TCAS warning will be caused on each crossing
Golf -India Bravo
I understand from what sheenboy has said to be the crossing of the airport by helicopters at the thresholds ( am I correct sheenboy) , I was at the visitors centre last weekend and watches a precession of helicopters during the day
which I found facinating
From that a couple of questions
1 can any helicopter pilot with a PPL use this route? as it seems to me that a very high standard of airmanship is required
2 what is the prefered crossing procedure
as I presume a TCAS warning will be caused on each crossing
Golf -India Bravo
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can any helicopter pilot with a PPL use this route? as it seems to me that a very high standard of airmanship is required
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I misunderstood; thought he meant a bit further out! Helicopter crossings are under the control of Heathrow Tower and are usually carried out in good visibility to enable the controller to apply visual separation between traffic. All the info is in the UK AIP, which is readily available on-line. I'll try and copy the relevant paragraphs and post them on here in the next day or two..
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Regarding helicopters at LHR.....
Every so often we have police helicopters flying along the northern and southern perimeters. Yes, they appear close, but we only do this under certain cloud and visibility limits. We pass traffic information to every a/c, telling them where the helicopter is, and at all times we make sure the controller has the helicopter in sight.
Other helicopters crossing the airfield follow a procedure laid down in the AIP. Again, this is a 'good weather' procedure. The helicopter will be talking to the person controlling the landing runway, and he/she will identify a gap where it will be safest to cross the helicopter. He'll tell the helicopter to report when he is visual with the a/c that he is planning to cross behind, that done, the ATCO will warn the next landing a/c that a helicopter is crossing in front of him.
If the weather is not good, and the helicopter HAS to cross the airfield, rather than route around, then we need a big gap in the landing traffic.
PPL(H)s can cross Heathrow. However, I would advise that they know the AIP procedure inside and out. We find a great diversity of apparent ability in following the procedure, and it has been known for ATCOs to turn helicopters away if they have any doubts as to the pilot's ability to get it right. I would recommend any PPL(H), or anyone, who hasn't done the crossing procedure before to tell ATC, so then maybe we'll go for a bigger gap!
Every so often we have police helicopters flying along the northern and southern perimeters. Yes, they appear close, but we only do this under certain cloud and visibility limits. We pass traffic information to every a/c, telling them where the helicopter is, and at all times we make sure the controller has the helicopter in sight.
Other helicopters crossing the airfield follow a procedure laid down in the AIP. Again, this is a 'good weather' procedure. The helicopter will be talking to the person controlling the landing runway, and he/she will identify a gap where it will be safest to cross the helicopter. He'll tell the helicopter to report when he is visual with the a/c that he is planning to cross behind, that done, the ATCO will warn the next landing a/c that a helicopter is crossing in front of him.
If the weather is not good, and the helicopter HAS to cross the airfield, rather than route around, then we need a big gap in the landing traffic.
PPL(H)s can cross Heathrow. However, I would advise that they know the AIP procedure inside and out. We find a great diversity of apparent ability in following the procedure, and it has been known for ATCOs to turn helicopters away if they have any doubts as to the pilot's ability to get it right. I would recommend any PPL(H), or anyone, who hasn't done the crossing procedure before to tell ATC, so then maybe we'll go for a bigger gap!
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<<PPL(H)s can cross Heathrow. However, I would advise that they know the AIP procedure inside and out. We find a great diversity of apparent ability in following the procedure, and it has been known for ATCOs to turn helicopters away if they have any doubts as to the pilot's ability to get it right. >>
Hear hear! I don't know who you are Gonzo but were you there when this one happened: PPL in a Strimmer (R22) was told "After departing xxx cross 27L, etc" and we lost sight of him.. The Lighting Op suddenly hollered "He's on 05 by the southern dual". When we told him to cross 27L he thought he had to land and air-taxi across!!!!
Hear hear! I don't know who you are Gonzo but were you there when this one happened: PPL in a Strimmer (R22) was told "After departing xxx cross 27L, etc" and we lost sight of him.. The Lighting Op suddenly hollered "He's on 05 by the southern dual". When we told him to cross 27L he thought he had to land and air-taxi across!!!!
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Nope, I arrived in 99....still wet behind the ears!
Never heard of that one. It is fascinating seeing how the geographical location of Sipson, Bedfont etc changes from day to day!
Ugh, R22 crossing the field with a strong headwind....... you start to imagine you can see it tacking against the wind!
Never heard of that one. It is fascinating seeing how the geographical location of Sipson, Bedfont etc changes from day to day!
Ugh, R22 crossing the field with a strong headwind....... you start to imagine you can see it tacking against the wind!
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Squadgey
No I`m not saying that PPL`s are not of a high standard, but i`m sure I would not attempt to fly that until I had plenty of experience of working in a tight area with a lot of traffic around
Golf India Bravo
No I`m not saying that PPL`s are not of a high standard, but i`m sure I would not attempt to fly that until I had plenty of experience of working in a tight area with a lot of traffic around
Golf India Bravo
