Usa Photo/fingerprint I/d
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
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GlueBall has a point here....
To me, taking fingerprints is for criminals.
For the time beeing, I consider myself not to be one.
After years of arguments, I had my Boss agreeing on FS Training.
Only FS for our A/C is in the US of A. Since I donīt hold a current rating above 12500 lbs, Iīd have to give my fingerprints in advance and in the States - not in an embassy. Means 2 flights to the US. Boss said no, he wonīt pay for this stupidity.
If I had a TR above 12500lbs, no advance fingerprinting would be required - presumably the 767īs were below 12500 ?
I think, the US citizens should get EXACTLY the same treatment we get - and It wonīt do security any good.
It would just show the US public : "Hey you might be the rulers of the world, but there is still some resistence"
But I fear none of the EU Governments have the backbone to show Georgieboy where to stop it.
To me, taking fingerprints is for criminals.
For the time beeing, I consider myself not to be one.
After years of arguments, I had my Boss agreeing on FS Training.
Only FS for our A/C is in the US of A. Since I donīt hold a current rating above 12500 lbs, Iīd have to give my fingerprints in advance and in the States - not in an embassy. Means 2 flights to the US. Boss said no, he wonīt pay for this stupidity.
If I had a TR above 12500lbs, no advance fingerprinting would be required - presumably the 767īs were below 12500 ?
I think, the US citizens should get EXACTLY the same treatment we get - and It wonīt do security any good.
It would just show the US public : "Hey you might be the rulers of the world, but there is still some resistence"
But I fear none of the EU Governments have the backbone to show Georgieboy where to stop it.
Although I agree entirely that it is a serious hassle for visitors to the US;
This is precisely the point of the exercise.
Now they will have to figure out how to get in!
These prohitive immigration procedures are worth nothing (because no terrorist will walk in that way),are planned and executed in a purely schematic way and harm the US economy the most.
This is precisely the point of the exercise.
Now they will have to figure out how to get in!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
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I hope you are all still around to comment when the USA can positively say that its photographing/fingerprinting procedure has led to the capture of terrorists or the prevention of a terrorist act.
In this day and age we all have to sacrifice a little if we want to stay safe and alive, it is just the way things are.
In this day and age we all have to sacrifice a little if we want to stay safe and alive, it is just the way things are.
This fingerprinting/photographing by US immigration agents is just so much B/S. It may make the plebs feel that they're being protected, but it really is useless. This afternoon I'll be off to LAX with (I expect) about 300 pax. The great majority of them who are non US citizens will be on the visa waiver programme and will not have any checks other than the normal passport photo check. On the other hand, the crew who all have been security cleared by the US authorities and hold current US visas will be fingerprinted and photographed at the immigration barrier. This certainly makes the USA much more secure. What a load of 
Join Date: May 2002
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If they are on the visa waiver programme then a lot is already known about them and this information is forwarded to the USA before their aircraft arrives. Not BS at all really.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Well it's just another example of how much the good old US of A is moving into the stone age.
It's just like just after 9/11 a knee jerk reaction with little thought put into it. This fingerprinting and video exercise is now unleased on the remaining 27 visa free countries because no one can get the new ultra security type passports issued to all in the required 2 yr timeframe.
It's what you expect from an myoptic country that runs around spruking "God Bless America" and has the audacity to print "In God We Trust" on it's bank notes. That wasn't much good to you on 9/11 unfortunately.
A damn good shake up of your foreign policy over the last 50yrs would go a long way to solving your terrorist problems that you have brought on yourselves where ever you go in the world.
I pity you people as I'm damned if I would want to be a target all over the planet as you are because of your moronic politicians and there policies.
I like a lot of others will now leave the good old USA of the travel itinerary, and I'm damn glad I don't have to work through the place.
Wrong move guys
It's just like just after 9/11 a knee jerk reaction with little thought put into it. This fingerprinting and video exercise is now unleased on the remaining 27 visa free countries because no one can get the new ultra security type passports issued to all in the required 2 yr timeframe.
It's what you expect from an myoptic country that runs around spruking "God Bless America" and has the audacity to print "In God We Trust" on it's bank notes. That wasn't much good to you on 9/11 unfortunately.
A damn good shake up of your foreign policy over the last 50yrs would go a long way to solving your terrorist problems that you have brought on yourselves where ever you go in the world.
I pity you people as I'm damned if I would want to be a target all over the planet as you are because of your moronic
politicians and there policies.I like a lot of others will now leave the good old USA of the travel itinerary, and I'm damn glad I don't have to work through the place.
Wrong move guys
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Evening all,
Firstly, may I say loud and clear that I am not anti-American. Far from it. But I will say that I for one will not be travelling to the U.S.A now having been planning a trip there for over a year.
I will not allow myself to be treated like a criminal in this manner when I have done nothing wrong. Yes, you Americans have a right to know who is entering your country. You get that information when you scan the machine readable passport I had to get to be allowed into your country. (It was either that or a Visa) You also get it from the lengthy forms to be filled in at U.S immigration pre-inspection in Dublin or Shannon Airports.
What I am not prepared to give is a form of identification only used in democratic countries when someone is arrested by the police. Who is to stop the U.S government and other governments from collecting these finger prints? They (and I include the governement of my own country here) do not have a right to that.
Most ironically of all, U.S tourists have been extremely inconvenienced at having the same thing done to them by Brazilian Immigration officers. So why the double standard?
Again, I re-iterate that I am not anti-American. You have a right to know who is coming into your country. You have a right to protect your country, but is this not a step too far? How much does it really further the cause of your nation's security?
And, if there are enough people who think similar to me and who will not be travelling becuase of this, how is it going to hurt your airline industry. I presume all who contribute here are the employees of, or supporters of, said industry?
Firstly, may I say loud and clear that I am not anti-American. Far from it. But I will say that I for one will not be travelling to the U.S.A now having been planning a trip there for over a year.
I will not allow myself to be treated like a criminal in this manner when I have done nothing wrong. Yes, you Americans have a right to know who is entering your country. You get that information when you scan the machine readable passport I had to get to be allowed into your country. (It was either that or a Visa) You also get it from the lengthy forms to be filled in at U.S immigration pre-inspection in Dublin or Shannon Airports.
What I am not prepared to give is a form of identification only used in democratic countries when someone is arrested by the police. Who is to stop the U.S government and other governments from collecting these finger prints? They (and I include the governement of my own country here) do not have a right to that.
Most ironically of all, U.S tourists have been extremely inconvenienced at having the same thing done to them by Brazilian Immigration officers. So why the double standard?
Again, I re-iterate that I am not anti-American. You have a right to know who is coming into your country. You have a right to protect your country, but is this not a step too far? How much does it really further the cause of your nation's security?
And, if there are enough people who think similar to me and who will not be travelling becuase of this, how is it going to hurt your airline industry. I presume all who contribute here are the employees of, or supporters of, said industry?
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Hi,
I said I was not anti-American.... I am very much anti Bush!
Oh, and might I also say I too hope that we are all around when this new measure is proven to have prevented an attack: because that day will be a bloody long time coming.
Do not allow your fears to be manipulated like this: This is far more to do with U.S Immigration policy than security. It\'s unfortunate that 9/11 and it\'s 3000 victims have been used so shamlessly to introduce such measures and all in the name of supposed security.
I said I was not anti-American.... I am very much anti Bush!
Oh, and might I also say I too hope that we are all around when this new measure is proven to have prevented an attack: because that day will be a bloody long time coming.
Do not allow your fears to be manipulated like this: This is far more to do with U.S Immigration policy than security. It\'s unfortunate that 9/11 and it\'s 3000 victims have been used so shamlessly to introduce such measures and all in the name of supposed security.
Grim Sleeper
Join Date: Jun 2001
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I haven't been to the US since I was doing flight training/hours building.
I and a group of friends used to hire some C152s and stooge around Florida in the middle of the night. We used to chat on the open 123.45 frequency.
One night we overheard a sizeable contingent of Arabic speakers doing pretty much what we were doing. After monopolising the freq for about 5 mins they all bogged off and we didn't hear them again. One of our guys quipped in the usual unenlightened fashion that they were planning their next jihad. Ha ha ha!
Well about a year later we had 9/11. After the various investigations revealed the timescale involved, it is stretching the grounds of probability that we had overheard some of those very guys chatting whilst flying, but if it wasn't them then the 9/11 hijackers would have been in a very similar situation.
They were there legitimately, free to fly, and you couldn't stop them being there. Fingerprinting and photographing people entering the country just means it will be easier to identify them after the fact. It clearly will not stop them entering the country - as already pointed out, most of the terrorists to strike on US soil were first-time offenders and not likely to trigger any security alerts.
This is a shot in the foot by the US. Short of building a wall around the country, I don't know anything else that could be more damaging to their tourist economy in the future as a long-term policy.
Besides, if US sky marshals and congressmen will keep leaving guns lying around airports, who cares anyway?
I and a group of friends used to hire some C152s and stooge around Florida in the middle of the night. We used to chat on the open 123.45 frequency.
One night we overheard a sizeable contingent of Arabic speakers doing pretty much what we were doing. After monopolising the freq for about 5 mins they all bogged off and we didn't hear them again. One of our guys quipped in the usual unenlightened fashion that they were planning their next jihad. Ha ha ha!
Well about a year later we had 9/11. After the various investigations revealed the timescale involved, it is stretching the grounds of probability that we had overheard some of those very guys chatting whilst flying, but if it wasn't them then the 9/11 hijackers would have been in a very similar situation.
They were there legitimately, free to fly, and you couldn't stop them being there. Fingerprinting and photographing people entering the country just means it will be easier to identify them after the fact. It clearly will not stop them entering the country - as already pointed out, most of the terrorists to strike on US soil were first-time offenders and not likely to trigger any security alerts.
This is a shot in the foot by the US. Short of building a wall around the country, I don't know anything else that could be more damaging to their tourist economy in the future as a long-term policy.
Besides, if US sky marshals and congressmen will keep leaving guns lying around airports, who cares anyway?
Interesting
From the UK Daily Telegraph 23 April
"Strict new security and visa rules put in place since the September 11 attacks have triggered a 30 per cent drop in overseas visitors to the United States, the Bush administration has announced.
This has dealt a major blow to the tourist industry and US universities, among other sectors, said Colin Powell, the secretary of state.
He appeared on Capitol Hill to urge Congress to extend by two years a deadline for Britain and other trusted allies to produce ultra-high-tech "biometric" passports.
If Congress does not extend the deadline - set for October - millions of Britons face an expensive and time-consuming procedure of applying for a visa, just to visit America on a family holiday. Last year 3.9 million Britons visited, making Britain easily the country's biggest tourist customer.
Mr Powell told the House judiciary committee: "The overall statistic is we're down 30 per cent since 2001. That's significant. That's a lot of money, it's a lot of people."
He warned Congress that people would soon start voting with their feet. Mr Powell read from a letter, sent by the president of Harvard University, describing how a Chinese PhD student who travelled home for a family wedding then took months to secure a visa to return to Harvard.
"People aren't going to take that for very long, and when the word gets out to others, they are going to start going elsewhere," Mr Powell said.
The October deadline relates to a congressional decision to toughen up the long-standing scheme under which tourists from Britain and 26 other nations can enter America by simply filling out a green visa-waiver form as they fly across the Atlantic.
Congress ordered that the visa-waiver scheme be reserved for travellers carrying ultra-secure new passports containing "biometric" data - a digital photograph or fingerprint embedded in a computer chip.
British, US and continental European officials have all warned Congress that the technology for such biometric passports is not ready and no country will make the October deadline.
In an attempt to reassure Congress, the Bush administration recently ordered that visa-waiver tourists will have to be photographed and fingerprinted on entering the United States. After Sept 30, British visitors will be photographed as they stand at the immigration counter, and will have their fingerprints digitally scanned.
It seems likely that some sort of extension will be agreed, if not two years. Otherwise, millions of British tourists face having to apply in person at US missions for visas, simply to take family holidays.
Leading Republicans made clear that the visa-waiver scheme has become the latest casualty of souring US relations with Europe, and in particular France.
James Sensenbrenner, the Wisconsin Republican who chairs the powerful judiciary committee, said the premise that visa-waiver allies could be trusted "may have been true in years past, but it's questionable today".
He recalled the recent Madrid bombings, which he said appeared to have been carried out by Spanish passport holders, who could have entered the United States under the visa-waiver scheme.
In February, he complained, "thousands of blank French passports were stolen from a delivery truck, the third such theft in less than a year".
So it is being realised..........at last
From the UK Daily Telegraph 23 April
"Strict new security and visa rules put in place since the September 11 attacks have triggered a 30 per cent drop in overseas visitors to the United States, the Bush administration has announced.
This has dealt a major blow to the tourist industry and US universities, among other sectors, said Colin Powell, the secretary of state.
He appeared on Capitol Hill to urge Congress to extend by two years a deadline for Britain and other trusted allies to produce ultra-high-tech "biometric" passports.
If Congress does not extend the deadline - set for October - millions of Britons face an expensive and time-consuming procedure of applying for a visa, just to visit America on a family holiday. Last year 3.9 million Britons visited, making Britain easily the country's biggest tourist customer.
Mr Powell told the House judiciary committee: "The overall statistic is we're down 30 per cent since 2001. That's significant. That's a lot of money, it's a lot of people."
He warned Congress that people would soon start voting with their feet. Mr Powell read from a letter, sent by the president of Harvard University, describing how a Chinese PhD student who travelled home for a family wedding then took months to secure a visa to return to Harvard.
"People aren't going to take that for very long, and when the word gets out to others, they are going to start going elsewhere," Mr Powell said.
The October deadline relates to a congressional decision to toughen up the long-standing scheme under which tourists from Britain and 26 other nations can enter America by simply filling out a green visa-waiver form as they fly across the Atlantic.
Congress ordered that the visa-waiver scheme be reserved for travellers carrying ultra-secure new passports containing "biometric" data - a digital photograph or fingerprint embedded in a computer chip.
British, US and continental European officials have all warned Congress that the technology for such biometric passports is not ready and no country will make the October deadline.
In an attempt to reassure Congress, the Bush administration recently ordered that visa-waiver tourists will have to be photographed and fingerprinted on entering the United States. After Sept 30, British visitors will be photographed as they stand at the immigration counter, and will have their fingerprints digitally scanned.
It seems likely that some sort of extension will be agreed, if not two years. Otherwise, millions of British tourists face having to apply in person at US missions for visas, simply to take family holidays.
Leading Republicans made clear that the visa-waiver scheme has become the latest casualty of souring US relations with Europe, and in particular France.
James Sensenbrenner, the Wisconsin Republican who chairs the powerful judiciary committee, said the premise that visa-waiver allies could be trusted "may have been true in years past, but it's questionable today".
He recalled the recent Madrid bombings, which he said appeared to have been carried out by Spanish passport holders, who could have entered the United States under the visa-waiver scheme.
In February, he complained, "thousands of blank French passports were stolen from a delivery truck, the third such theft in less than a year".
So it is being realised..........at last
