Virgin's Concorde???
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Virgin's Concorde???
So, tell me, where is this Virgin Concorde that the Grinning Assassin promised us would be flying at Kitty Hawk to commemorate the 100th year of Aviation is then?
UkEng
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Big bad BA spoiled his party and told him to poke his £1 offer where the sun don't shine.
As usual once the publicity opportunity has gone he's disappeared up his own backside again for a while - let's hope he gets lost in there this time
As usual once the publicity opportunity has gone he's disappeared up his own backside again for a while - let's hope he gets lost in there this time
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Please excuse my ignorance to the situation but why is it so widely acknowledged that RB is such a tw@t ?
Atititude ? The way he runs his companies ? A specific incident ? Politics ? All of the above ?
Atititude ? The way he runs his companies ? A specific incident ? Politics ? All of the above ?
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Examine the truth and you have to wonder if RB is really as daft as some would make him out.
He take a revolutionary idea, be it airlines, cosmetics or the financial industry, he launches a "Virgin" brand relating to same at some considerable cost, but because he's a clever sod, he persuades someone else to come in and invest heavily in that company. For example, Virgin Money - Royal Bank of Scotland, Virgin Airlines - Singapore Airlines, and the list goes on.
I am not sure that any of the "Virgin" companies are owned 100% by R.B. , each time he sells, he takes a huge cut of the sale price, and why not?
Concorde? It was another idea he knew he'd never achieve, but boy did he get some publicity in doing it, that's what he's good at, that's what makes him money.
He take a revolutionary idea, be it airlines, cosmetics or the financial industry, he launches a "Virgin" brand relating to same at some considerable cost, but because he's a clever sod, he persuades someone else to come in and invest heavily in that company. For example, Virgin Money - Royal Bank of Scotland, Virgin Airlines - Singapore Airlines, and the list goes on.
I am not sure that any of the "Virgin" companies are owned 100% by R.B. , each time he sells, he takes a huge cut of the sale price, and why not?
Concorde? It was another idea he knew he'd never achieve, but boy did he get some publicity in doing it, that's what he's good at, that's what makes him money.
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A word in Sir Richard's defence. This has nothing to do with his intentions regarding Concorde or anything else but I would just like to point out that when, earlier this year, I asked him and many other UK airlines, for a donation to the Royal Flying Doctor Service Outback Air Safari, he was the ONLY one who bothered to contribute anything and even apologised for not being able to give more. Of all the others contacted, (and there were many)only three: BA, BMI and Multiflight even bothered to reply. Thank you Sir Richard. 
pilotwolf - you are right on target.
Jealousy of success is predominantly a British disease.
In the USA when someone drives past in a new shiny car they say "Look how well he/she has done to get that lovely car".
In the UK they say "I wonder who he/she ripped off to get a car like that!". The UK media is also fuelled by an obsession to pull down anyone who is "successful".
There are two ways of getting the tallest building in town - either build own or pull down the ones that are higher than yours. This metaphor also holds true for what happened on Sept 11th.
As I have said on these pages before most successful business enterprises are steered by ENTREPRENEURS such as Branson - they dont get it right everytime but seem to have a better idea of where to take a business than some of the beancounters who "run" other companies.
Jealousy of success is predominantly a British disease.
In the USA when someone drives past in a new shiny car they say "Look how well he/she has done to get that lovely car".
In the UK they say "I wonder who he/she ripped off to get a car like that!". The UK media is also fuelled by an obsession to pull down anyone who is "successful".
There are two ways of getting the tallest building in town - either build own or pull down the ones that are higher than yours. This metaphor also holds true for what happened on Sept 11th.
As I have said on these pages before most successful business enterprises are steered by ENTREPRENEURS such as Branson - they dont get it right everytime but seem to have a better idea of where to take a business than some of the beancounters who "run" other companies.
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I think you're off-target there fireflybob. I haven't seen many people crtiticising Branson in Britain. It's quite the opposite if anything, most people think the sun shines out of his rear end and would appoint him as Prime Minister given half a chance. The problems arise when Bransons hype catches up with him and the public experience the reality. Virgin trains is a classic example - launched in fanfare with extravagant promises of success, they're now a laughing stock and considerably worse than before he took over. The reason he gets a slating on these forums is because they're largely read by intelligent, well-informed people who don't fall for the hype. People here know lots of his grandstanding schemes will never work (eg Concorde), and don't forget about them when RB suddenly turns down the volume. When was the last time you saw the UK media write anything critical about RB? The only people on UK TV that I saw tackle him on Concorde were Richard and Judy, and despite being as far from 'hard interviewers' as you can get they had him squirming in his seat!
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Carnage Remind me; who ran Virgin Trains before Branson 'took over'? You mean British Rail West Coast, or British Rail Cross Country? You think that the franchising process would have resulted in a better service for those two areas had someone other than Virgin taken them on? I think you're dreaming!
Virgin Trains have suffered primarily from the incompetence of Railtrack and, latterly, Network Rail. They have invested more heavily in their product than any other company, while being saddled with the worst infrastructure problems (relative to the franchise's aims) that any rail franchise has to endure - and now, after introducing the most modern trains on the network, the system (i.e. Tom Winsor) has pulled the rug from underneath them by refusing to complete the West Coast Upgrade for yet another two years. I'm amazed that Virgin Trains haven't just walked away - they have every right to!
As for RB's schemes - yes, many of them are designed to raise the public profile of his companies. These, in turn, are intended to make a profit. It's a dirty word in UK, I know, but - believe it or not - profit benefits the workers in those companies as well as the owners! Or perhaps you can show me when a non-nationalised company benefitted its workers by making a loss? Equally, RB is well aware that you can't make a profit by pissing off the fare-payers. You think any train company tries to alienate those who pay for their existence?
The UK rail system is a mess. RB picked up the most challenging part of it, and, despite the odds, is making it work. God (and the passengers) knows it ain't perfect, but I would challenge anyone to do better under the circumstances.
Virgin Trains have suffered primarily from the incompetence of Railtrack and, latterly, Network Rail. They have invested more heavily in their product than any other company, while being saddled with the worst infrastructure problems (relative to the franchise's aims) that any rail franchise has to endure - and now, after introducing the most modern trains on the network, the system (i.e. Tom Winsor) has pulled the rug from underneath them by refusing to complete the West Coast Upgrade for yet another two years. I'm amazed that Virgin Trains haven't just walked away - they have every right to!
As for RB's schemes - yes, many of them are designed to raise the public profile of his companies. These, in turn, are intended to make a profit. It's a dirty word in UK, I know, but - believe it or not - profit benefits the workers in those companies as well as the owners! Or perhaps you can show me when a non-nationalised company benefitted its workers by making a loss? Equally, RB is well aware that you can't make a profit by pissing off the fare-payers. You think any train company tries to alienate those who pay for their existence?
The UK rail system is a mess. RB picked up the most challenging part of it, and, despite the odds, is making it work. God (and the passengers) knows it ain't perfect, but I would challenge anyone to do better under the circumstances.
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The reason he gets a slating on these forums is because they're largely read by intelligent, well-informed people who don't fall for the hype.
Branson is very much a modern businessman. He is aware of how to play the media and knows that the thing which gives him his success is the Virgin brand. I suspect he knew he stood no chance of getting a Concorde, but knew public opinion was against BA retiring the gift horses they received and milked it. Lets face it, Joe public (who admittedly know very little about airline economics), still see BA as the villain of the piece.
...and, when I have travelled on Virgin, I have never felt like an inconvenience to the cabin crew. Now on BA though. . . .
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Sir Richard has many faults, failing to follow up promises to Virgin Atlantic crew being one of them. There are plenty of un-sued bigraphers records to look at to see how he operates and sigh. Even he admits that that far more of his business ventures have failed than have succeded (if that means anything) and I reckon he is probably not a nice man to work for but for all this his daughter is really fit...
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Scroggs - I've had the 'pleasure' of travelling what are now Bransons train routes for the last ten years. Have you? My opinion is that he's put a few new trains on the routes ( a small proportion of the daily services), but most are still the same cr@ppy old slam-door trains we had before but painted in new colours. Barely progress. I know RBs schemes are designed to raise the public profile of the company, and profit isn't a dirty word, but perhaps 'hype' is. We're all becoming disillusioned with 'spin' and maybe people are beginning to see through the Virgin propaganda? After all, wasn't this thread started by someone who'd seen through the hype?
Anyway, what about Concorde. And didn't he promise to fly to Oz in a Qantas uniform if VS weren't flying there by Xmas?
Anyway, what about Concorde. And didn't he promise to fly to Oz in a Qantas uniform if VS weren't flying there by Xmas?
Last edited by Carnage Matey!; 15th Dec 2003 at 08:44.
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Like him or not, Mr Branson is an excellent PR man.
My parents flew Virgin to Johannesburg a couple of years ago on a flight where RB who was also a passenger.
He went around the aircraft and spoke to every passenger and shook hands with, and thanked everyone for flying Virgin when they left at the end of the flight.
I would like to see the Chief Executive of BA do that
My parents flew Virgin to Johannesburg a couple of years ago on a flight where RB who was also a passenger.
He went around the aircraft and spoke to every passenger and shook hands with, and thanked everyone for flying Virgin when they left at the end of the flight.
I would like to see the Chief Executive of BA do that
Paxing All Over The World
I am a fan of Branson but recognise that many people do not like him and many have reason to hate him. In that regard, he appears to be the same as any other human being.
He is a modern business man and he has made and lost money with some projects working and others failing. Which again reminds me of other human beings. However, I am always surprised by the level of bile that is directed at him from PPRuNers. It is unbecoming.
As to the trains - which I have used as I live near the Euston lines - I think that he was mad to take them on. How anyone thought that they could pull round an old service that the Brit govt was selling off cheap and fencing with stupid rules, leaves me beat. His optimism must have got the better of him and I have no sympathy for any flak that he takes on the subject of trains.
He once said that taking on the airline that became Virgin Express (sorry, cannot recall original carrier name) was a mistake. He said that only by starting a company from scratch could you get the atmosphere and approach from the staff that you needed. Old companies have too much baggage to change and reinvent themselves, as we see with BA right now. This is why I was surprised when he took on the trains and he has paid a very high price for that decision.
What he does know is what customers want and how much they will pay for it. That knowledge allows him to fly by the seat of his pants and often make a safe landing.
Lastly, one of the reasons that I admire him is that he is not afraid to change. If something is not working, he will not cling on to power. He will sell/merge with another and see that the company continues. Most people that start things want to hold on to the reins of power long after it is clear that they are not helping - but Branson does not. He knows that his strength is starting things not running them day to day. In this regard Stelios is the same, he starts things and moves on and that displays a grown up attitude. It tells me that that person understands themself and their limitations. There are not many business 'leaders' who admit their limitations and allow someone else to improve what they have done. Many actively prevent that from happening, so that they will continue to look good after they have left. This usually backfires.
The person who can let something go, the person who can say, "Someone else can do this better than me" is a person that I would work for any second of the day.
He is a modern business man and he has made and lost money with some projects working and others failing. Which again reminds me of other human beings. However, I am always surprised by the level of bile that is directed at him from PPRuNers. It is unbecoming.
As to the trains - which I have used as I live near the Euston lines - I think that he was mad to take them on. How anyone thought that they could pull round an old service that the Brit govt was selling off cheap and fencing with stupid rules, leaves me beat. His optimism must have got the better of him and I have no sympathy for any flak that he takes on the subject of trains.
He once said that taking on the airline that became Virgin Express (sorry, cannot recall original carrier name) was a mistake. He said that only by starting a company from scratch could you get the atmosphere and approach from the staff that you needed. Old companies have too much baggage to change and reinvent themselves, as we see with BA right now. This is why I was surprised when he took on the trains and he has paid a very high price for that decision.
What he does know is what customers want and how much they will pay for it. That knowledge allows him to fly by the seat of his pants and often make a safe landing.
Lastly, one of the reasons that I admire him is that he is not afraid to change. If something is not working, he will not cling on to power. He will sell/merge with another and see that the company continues. Most people that start things want to hold on to the reins of power long after it is clear that they are not helping - but Branson does not. He knows that his strength is starting things not running them day to day. In this regard Stelios is the same, he starts things and moves on and that displays a grown up attitude. It tells me that that person understands themself and their limitations. There are not many business 'leaders' who admit their limitations and allow someone else to improve what they have done. Many actively prevent that from happening, so that they will continue to look good after they have left. This usually backfires.
The person who can let something go, the person who can say, "Someone else can do this better than me" is a person that I would work for any second of the day.
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Carnage Matey
Richard Branson is a very good buisness man and he deserves it.
You are a BA cabin attendent who is very very jealous of success.
RB has given me and many others like me jobs.He is fair with staff (we got a bonus this year did you?).
As for dresssing up in a BA uniform I think the QF guy has lost,what RB said was approval to fly to Australia and not by Christmas. Perhaps you should dress up in a VS uniform and throw your BA one away, but then again most BA crew would not fit into VS uniforms.!!!!!!
Richard Branson is a very good buisness man and he deserves it.
You are a BA cabin attendent who is very very jealous of success.
RB has given me and many others like me jobs.He is fair with staff (we got a bonus this year did you?).
As for dresssing up in a BA uniform I think the QF guy has lost,what RB said was approval to fly to Australia and not by Christmas. Perhaps you should dress up in a VS uniform and throw your BA one away, but then again most BA crew would not fit into VS uniforms.!!!!!!
Title? What title?
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And didn't he promise to fly to Oz in a Qantas uniform if VS weren't flying there by Xmas?
