I'll tell you what you can do with your tail fin, Mr. CEO Phil Condit
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Well,
So, I would like to point out that what Boeing and everyone else is doing in aviation is the same sort of slide that happened in the Auto industry.
I can understand Boeings position. Example AC-Delco was paying their United Auto worker about $19.00 per hour to stamp out oil filters. No Union breaks for AC-Delco! So, All the jobs go south to Mexico. Its a hell of allot cheaper.
I have no problem with Unions. Sometimes good sometimes bad.
But sometimes they Kill the Goose that lays the golden egg.
So, I would like to point out that what Boeing and everyone else is doing in aviation is the same sort of slide that happened in the Auto industry.
I can understand Boeings position. Example AC-Delco was paying their United Auto worker about $19.00 per hour to stamp out oil filters. No Union breaks for AC-Delco! So, All the jobs go south to Mexico. Its a hell of allot cheaper.
I have no problem with Unions. Sometimes good sometimes bad.
But sometimes they Kill the Goose that lays the golden egg.
Yakker-good point about the very incomplete info which is sometimes presented by our US media. Even the very good "Discovery" or "History" Channels often seem to make the impression that both the B-17 and invasion of Normandy "won" the war. By contrast, the "History International" and "Discovery Wings" Channels can be excellent and "H. Int." is often made for (or by) foreign stations: ZDF, Dutch, maybe BBC etc.
I don't know about the viewing public 'over there', but ours might not have the interest in, or comprehension of more detailed and complete presentations-never mind the length, as we race to the kitchen for popcorn or chips (crisps?). Our public is becoming conditioned by very short CNN soundbytes etc. They never show any females in bikinis for more than about five seconds.
I don't know about the viewing public 'over there', but ours might not have the interest in, or comprehension of more detailed and complete presentations-never mind the length, as we race to the kitchen for popcorn or chips (crisps?). Our public is becoming conditioned by very short CNN soundbytes etc. They never show any females in bikinis for more than about five seconds.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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I read all the comments with interest following the Seattle journalists report which is used as the basis of this thread.
Clearly business is only out to line its shareholders and directors pockets , whether aircraft , shipbuilding, automotive or anything else!
Government policy can influence these decisions but upfront the business needs to be invested in (the lack of which was the real reason why commercial shipbuilding died in the UK). France did a pretty fine job by pumping billions into Toulouse to create a European Aerospace Centre to rival The USA.
Building with cheaper labour does not apply to any of Boeings sub-contracts which have gone Japan way - the root cause is likely to be deliberate dis-investment to make the 'make or buy' decision at corporate level go to Japanese outsourcing.
Incidentally the same is now happening to Britain's much smaller but 'prestigious' space industry which is being sold down the river to France, Germany and Spain. At least two of these countries have higher labour and real production costs.
Yet another industry which Britain led the way in Europe soon to be decimated.
So maybe we should all be rushing out to learn Japanese, Korean, French, Spanish, Chinese etc...If you can't beat them!
Clearly business is only out to line its shareholders and directors pockets , whether aircraft , shipbuilding, automotive or anything else!
Government policy can influence these decisions but upfront the business needs to be invested in (the lack of which was the real reason why commercial shipbuilding died in the UK). France did a pretty fine job by pumping billions into Toulouse to create a European Aerospace Centre to rival The USA.
Building with cheaper labour does not apply to any of Boeings sub-contracts which have gone Japan way - the root cause is likely to be deliberate dis-investment to make the 'make or buy' decision at corporate level go to Japanese outsourcing.
Incidentally the same is now happening to Britain's much smaller but 'prestigious' space industry which is being sold down the river to France, Germany and Spain. At least two of these countries have higher labour and real production costs.
Yet another industry which Britain led the way in Europe soon to be decimated.
So maybe we should all be rushing out to learn Japanese, Korean, French, Spanish, Chinese etc...If you can't beat them!
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Think it is okay for Boeing to cooperate with Asia since this is where a lot of the future business will be. Have them participate and get most of their orders...
BUT
Boeing needs to use the money from their partners to do some heavy investment in new products right now. Not only a 7E7 but a 747 follow-on (777 quad?) and later some 737NG follow on as well. And keep the main know-how in Everett.
BUT
Boeing needs to use the money from their partners to do some heavy investment in new products right now. Not only a 7E7 but a 747 follow-on (777 quad?) and later some 737NG follow on as well. And keep the main know-how in Everett.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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I can understand that there is a lot of pride in the Seatle region, some of the finest aircraft in the world have been designed, built and flown from there, but pride can also kill the goose.
In todays commercial world, the share holders, stake holders and others are out to make their money in what ever commodity they happen to be working wiht. In this case aircraft.
No doubt, some of the people maiking the decisions are having trouble with pride issues, why should they, how have possibly worked for Boeing for their entire lives, want to see pruduction of various sub assemblies go overseas or even away from the Seatlle region?
How ever, they are just following where the rest of the commercial world is going, to the the cheaper labour. And why not, if USA people can be trained to drill and drive rivets why cant others in less technically advanced countries do it (even I can drive a rivet!).
It was my understanding, that right form the begining, that the 7E7 was going to be 'multicultural' aircraft with final assembly not nessicarly in the Seatle regions.
Is the thread starter having problems with the fact that it may not be built in the seattle area despite is being a wide body, or the fact that major componets are going to be built all over the world?
Is the thread starter also saying that only engines, for example, that are only 100% USA should be fitted to the aircraft as engines built and desined in other parts of the world are inferior?
I know that the Boeing Company has struggled over the years at times but we have to trust them to still be able to provide to service a aircraft capable of meeting what it was intended to do, no matter where it assembled and no matter where teh major sub assemblies are made - I do.
Well thats my $ worth, - sorry teh spiloing isnt up to much though,
Hay Ewe
In todays commercial world, the share holders, stake holders and others are out to make their money in what ever commodity they happen to be working wiht. In this case aircraft.
No doubt, some of the people maiking the decisions are having trouble with pride issues, why should they, how have possibly worked for Boeing for their entire lives, want to see pruduction of various sub assemblies go overseas or even away from the Seatlle region?
How ever, they are just following where the rest of the commercial world is going, to the the cheaper labour. And why not, if USA people can be trained to drill and drive rivets why cant others in less technically advanced countries do it (even I can drive a rivet!).
It was my understanding, that right form the begining, that the 7E7 was going to be 'multicultural' aircraft with final assembly not nessicarly in the Seatle regions.
Is the thread starter having problems with the fact that it may not be built in the seattle area despite is being a wide body, or the fact that major componets are going to be built all over the world?
Is the thread starter also saying that only engines, for example, that are only 100% USA should be fitted to the aircraft as engines built and desined in other parts of the world are inferior?
I know that the Boeing Company has struggled over the years at times but we have to trust them to still be able to provide to service a aircraft capable of meeting what it was intended to do, no matter where it assembled and no matter where teh major sub assemblies are made - I do.
Well thats my $ worth, - sorry teh spiloing isnt up to much though,
Hay Ewe
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Being Numero Uno Isn't Forever
The Roman Empire, Pax Romana, lasted 500 years.
Pax Americana already appears to be in decline after 227 years.
Airbus will buy Boeing Airplane Division; China will buy Airbus.
Any other questions?
Pax Americana already appears to be in decline after 227 years.
Airbus will buy Boeing Airplane Division; China will buy Airbus.
Any other questions?
