Concorde emergency landing at Cardiff
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Concorde like all aircraft must have a point to which it can go, and when crossing the Atlantic the capability of returning to Northern Canada [eg gander], or to continue on to Shannon, over lap each other, so at one point the aircraft can either go back or continue on.
Concorde uses more fuel for a given distance when it is subsonic compared to that used when it is supersonic
Concorde uses more fuel for a given distance when it is subsonic compared to that used when it is supersonic
Too mean to buy a long personal title
A couple more quick questions for the experts, out of curiosity:-
1. When SSC goes subsonic in an incident like this one, what sort of altitude can she maintain? Will she stay within her block or would ATC have to make sure there is no conflict with other aircraft using the conventional altitudes?
2. Would the current very healthy loads have made a difference as to whether a diversion was necessary? If the same thing had occurred at the same point with a very light (pre-9 April?) load, might she have been able to continue to LHR in any event?
1. When SSC goes subsonic in an incident like this one, what sort of altitude can she maintain? Will she stay within her block or would ATC have to make sure there is no conflict with other aircraft using the conventional altitudes?
2. Would the current very healthy loads have made a difference as to whether a diversion was necessary? If the same thing had occurred at the same point with a very light (pre-9 April?) load, might she have been able to continue to LHR in any event?
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It was indeed ironic that the news about the Concorde diversion to Cardiff arose at the same time as Europe's biggest airline maintenance repair and overhaul conference was taking place in no other place than... Cardiff!!! 
Gave the gathered masses something extra to talk about this morning!
Still, at least it had the good grace to do it after Rod Eddington's speech!
Andy
Gave the gathered masses something extra to talk about this morning!Still, at least it had the good grace to do it after Rod Eddington's speech!
Andy
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Brit321
I believe I have the facts reasonably correct. Perhaps the insect analogy was ott but the rest isn't. It was in fact a serious situation. The Captain WAS alerted to the fact that there would be a shortage of fuel at LHR by the FO and he ignored it - for whatever reason. That then jeapordised the safety of the aircraft. The ground crew could not tow her because she too light on the nose gear to tow - for being short of fuel.
It is also true that he didn't report it. But the CAA were then involved because the FO became ill over the incident. He was off flying for some considerable time. As you must know. A full investigation was undertaken by the CAA.
The Captain was given choices - the one he chose was the only available.
However, apart from his breathtaking arrogance he did promote Concorde well. Just a pity he had to..................oh well, he still enjoys his gardening I expect.
I believe I have the facts reasonably correct. Perhaps the insect analogy was ott but the rest isn't. It was in fact a serious situation. The Captain WAS alerted to the fact that there would be a shortage of fuel at LHR by the FO and he ignored it - for whatever reason. That then jeapordised the safety of the aircraft. The ground crew could not tow her because she too light on the nose gear to tow - for being short of fuel.
It is also true that he didn't report it. But the CAA were then involved because the FO became ill over the incident. He was off flying for some considerable time. As you must know. A full investigation was undertaken by the CAA.
The Captain was given choices - the one he chose was the only available.
However, apart from his breathtaking arrogance he did promote Concorde well. Just a pity he had to..................oh well, he still enjoys his gardening I expect.
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'"Glass and plates were flying and people were screaming. It was very scary," said Danny Ferris, a passenger from San Francisco who was traveling on Concorde for the first time.'
Here' s the inevitable "I heard a bang and I knew we wuz gonna die" article:
______________________________________
Posted on Thu, Sep. 18, 2003
BA Concorde Mishap Frightens Passengers
JACK GARLAND
Associated Press
LONDON - They took off from New York on the world's fastest passenger jet and pulled into London's Heathrow Airport nearly half a day later - on a bus.
Things started to go really wrong on the $6,600-a-seat Concorde with a frightening backfire over the Atlantic Ocean. Before it was over, the plane had dropped from supersonic to subsonic speed, was running out of fuel and made an unscheduled landing in Wales.
Even passengers who know the Concorde is about to be retired forever were shocked by the service.
Like many people aboard Wednesday's British Airways Concorde flight, John Crelly and his companion, Mhairi Watson, were looking forward to some serious luxury on the world's only remaining supersonic civilian aircraft.
"The whole point of the trip was to have a fantastic holiday followed by the experience of flying on Concorde," Crelly, a 39-year-old London businessman, said Thursday.
But things got off to a bumpy start in New York. The departure from Kennedy Airport was delayed for an hour by a faulty light.
Then, three-quarters of the way into the trans-Atlantic flight, the Concorde experienced an "engine surge," meaning the flow of air through one of its engines was disrupted, causing it to backfire.
"There was a bang like we'd hit a brick wall, and then the pilot came on saying something like we'd lost an engine," said Patricia Ayearst, a retired commercial artist from New York, speaking to journalists Thursday.
Ayearst said the flight was her second on Concorde, which is to be retired permanently in October.
"I traveled with them 20 years ago and everything went off perfectly. I thought that I'd take this flight because it was my last chance before they went out of service," she said.
The plane, a favored method of trans-Atlantic travel for pop stars and business tycoons, was traveling at a supersonic speed of 1,300 mph over the Atlantic Ocean when the engine problem occurred. The pilot immediately slowed the plane to subsonic speed.
"Glass and plates were flying and people were screaming. It was very scary," said Danny Ferris, a passenger from San Francisco who was traveling on Concorde for the first time.
"We suddenly just dropped. The air crew quickly packed everything up and told us the captain was very busy but would speak to us shortly. Finally he came on the line to tell us what had happened," Crelly said.
The Concorde was forced to fly at subsonic speeds for the rest of the flight, but because that uses more fuel than supersonic speed, the plane had to land at Cardiff International airport in Wales.
Passengers - who had each paid at least $6,585 for the trip - were asked to board a bus for the 110-mile drive to Heathrow Airport.
Concorde, which British Airways and Air France began flying commercially in 1976, can normally travel the 3,000 miles between London and New York in just three hours, 20 minutes, about half the time of a conventional airliner.
Altogether, Wednesday's journey took nearly 10 hours.
British Airways said the landing had not been an emergency, the safety of the 99 passengers and six crew members was never compromised and no one was injured. There also has been no change to other Concorde flights, the airline said.
Steve Double, a British Airways spokesman, said the passengers would receive frequent flyer miles as compensation, but no refund. The airline's remaining Concorde flights are sold out, he said, so passengers will have to use their miles on subsonic flights.
The Concorde's problems mushroomed three years ago.
In July 2000, an Air France Concorde crashed outside Paris, killing all 109 people on board and four people on the ground.
Air France and British Airways, which created the airplane together, immediately grounded their fleets of Concordes but resumed service to New York in November 2001, after spending over $27.2 million on safety improvements.
In April, Air France and British Airways announced their Concorde fleets would be permanently grounded.
Air France ran its last flight in May, and British Airways plans to retire its Concordes at the end of October, prompting some passengers to buy tickets before the jet fades into history.
Here' s the inevitable "I heard a bang and I knew we wuz gonna die" article:
______________________________________
Posted on Thu, Sep. 18, 2003
BA Concorde Mishap Frightens Passengers
JACK GARLAND
Associated Press
LONDON - They took off from New York on the world's fastest passenger jet and pulled into London's Heathrow Airport nearly half a day later - on a bus.
Things started to go really wrong on the $6,600-a-seat Concorde with a frightening backfire over the Atlantic Ocean. Before it was over, the plane had dropped from supersonic to subsonic speed, was running out of fuel and made an unscheduled landing in Wales.
Even passengers who know the Concorde is about to be retired forever were shocked by the service.
Like many people aboard Wednesday's British Airways Concorde flight, John Crelly and his companion, Mhairi Watson, were looking forward to some serious luxury on the world's only remaining supersonic civilian aircraft.
"The whole point of the trip was to have a fantastic holiday followed by the experience of flying on Concorde," Crelly, a 39-year-old London businessman, said Thursday.
But things got off to a bumpy start in New York. The departure from Kennedy Airport was delayed for an hour by a faulty light.
Then, three-quarters of the way into the trans-Atlantic flight, the Concorde experienced an "engine surge," meaning the flow of air through one of its engines was disrupted, causing it to backfire.
"There was a bang like we'd hit a brick wall, and then the pilot came on saying something like we'd lost an engine," said Patricia Ayearst, a retired commercial artist from New York, speaking to journalists Thursday.
Ayearst said the flight was her second on Concorde, which is to be retired permanently in October.
"I traveled with them 20 years ago and everything went off perfectly. I thought that I'd take this flight because it was my last chance before they went out of service," she said.
The plane, a favored method of trans-Atlantic travel for pop stars and business tycoons, was traveling at a supersonic speed of 1,300 mph over the Atlantic Ocean when the engine problem occurred. The pilot immediately slowed the plane to subsonic speed.
"Glass and plates were flying and people were screaming. It was very scary," said Danny Ferris, a passenger from San Francisco who was traveling on Concorde for the first time.
"We suddenly just dropped. The air crew quickly packed everything up and told us the captain was very busy but would speak to us shortly. Finally he came on the line to tell us what had happened," Crelly said.
The Concorde was forced to fly at subsonic speeds for the rest of the flight, but because that uses more fuel than supersonic speed, the plane had to land at Cardiff International airport in Wales.
Passengers - who had each paid at least $6,585 for the trip - were asked to board a bus for the 110-mile drive to Heathrow Airport.
Concorde, which British Airways and Air France began flying commercially in 1976, can normally travel the 3,000 miles between London and New York in just three hours, 20 minutes, about half the time of a conventional airliner.
Altogether, Wednesday's journey took nearly 10 hours.
British Airways said the landing had not been an emergency, the safety of the 99 passengers and six crew members was never compromised and no one was injured. There also has been no change to other Concorde flights, the airline said.
Steve Double, a British Airways spokesman, said the passengers would receive frequent flyer miles as compensation, but no refund. The airline's remaining Concorde flights are sold out, he said, so passengers will have to use their miles on subsonic flights.
The Concorde's problems mushroomed three years ago.
In July 2000, an Air France Concorde crashed outside Paris, killing all 109 people on board and four people on the ground.
Air France and British Airways, which created the airplane together, immediately grounded their fleets of Concordes but resumed service to New York in November 2001, after spending over $27.2 million on safety improvements.
In April, Air France and British Airways announced their Concorde fleets would be permanently grounded.
Air France ran its last flight in May, and British Airways plans to retire its Concordes at the end of October, prompting some passengers to buy tickets before the jet fades into history.
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Did anyone see that mad american pax on the news? yaking on about "engines dropping off, and passengers getting thrown all over the cabin"?
I wonder how much champange he had consumed on the flight
Or is it just another case of "lets get the best complainers to give aviation, and an historic aircraft to boot, a kick while it's down?
I wonder how much champange he had consumed on the flight
Or is it just another case of "lets get the best complainers to give aviation, and an historic aircraft to boot, a kick while it's down?
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Jongar, and the other elitist pricks, who through your postings imply that civilisation stops the moment you drive west over the Severn bridge, get a life!!!
Cardiff is (and was) capable of handling the situation. End of story. Now piss off and enjoy the rest of you sorry little life.
Cardiff is (and was) capable of handling the situation. End of story. Now piss off and enjoy the rest of you sorry little life.
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To get the full effect of that Associated Press article, you should try and imagine it being read out by that bloke with a deep voice who does the voiceovers for American movie trailers:
"In a land - that time forgot...", "It was a place - like no other...", "They took off from New York on the world's fastest passenger jet and pulled into London's Heathrow Airport nearly half a day later - on a bus".
"In a land - that time forgot...", "It was a place - like no other...", "They took off from New York on the world's fastest passenger jet and pulled into London's Heathrow Airport nearly half a day later - on a bus".
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That unbelievable article was probably written by a septic aviation reporter with a photo of a 2707 behind his desk........
I can't imagine the people who write this garbage. Makes one seriously want to go into aviation journalism.
I can't imagine the people who write this garbage. Makes one seriously want to go into aviation journalism.
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Jongar, and the other elitist pricks, who through your postings imply that civilisation stops the moment you drive west over the Severn bridge, get a life!!!
Cardiff is (and was) capable of handling the situation. End of story. Now piss off and enjoy the rest of you sorry little life.
Cardiff is (and was) capable of handling the situation. End of story. Now piss off and enjoy the rest of you sorry little life.
smilie on his post to show the remark was made with humour. Dont be so touchy tcr2. Take a chill pill and then go back to bed. Your favorite sheep is waiting for you! 
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As far as that AP report by Jack Garland goes, all I can say is -What hype from the Yanks. Can’t they ever get over the fact that they didn’t have their own supersonic commercial passenger carrier.
Jealousy will out!
Jealousy will out!
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Bahrainlad, at the risk of exposing myself to ridicule, 
what was unbelievable about the posting by Airbubba? I pulled out a few quotes at random
so it didn't do this?
Are you saying there was no RTO, or it wasn't due to a "faulty light"?
Sounds routine.
Untrue?
So apart from the
what else did you find unbelievable?
what was unbelievable about the posting by Airbubba? I pulled out a few quotes at random
the plane had dropped from supersonic to subsonic speed, was running out of fuel and made an unscheduled landing in Wales.
The departure from Kennedy Airport was delayed for an hour by a faulty light.
We suddenly just dropped. The air crew quickly packed everything up and told us the captain was very busy but would speak to us shortly. Finally he came on the line to tell us what had happened
The Concorde was forced to fly at subsonic speeds for the rest of the flight, but because that uses more fuel than supersonic speed, the plane had to land at Cardiff International airport in Wales.
So apart from the
Glass and plates were flying and people were screaming. It was very scary
what else did you find unbelievable?
Last edited by newswatcher; 19th Sep 2003 at 17:05.
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I don't want to reply on Bahrainlad's behalf but it may well have been the way the article was written; a paragraph of screaming hyperbole followed by a fact, a paragraph of screaming hyperbole followed by a fact, etc. It's not was was said but the way it was reported. And lazy, sensationalist ****e it was too.
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I guess the guy is writing for his intended audience, whoever that might be. I would expect a difference between an article written for Flight International and one for the Mirror. 
And yes, I did note he has posted two different seat prices!!
I have read many examples of journalistic sensationalism but I really did not think this was one of them. You should have seen some of the articles after the Paris tragedy!
It's Friday, and I'm looking for a "5 minute" argument. So strafer, perhaps you would like to give three examples of "screaming hyperbole", or something "unbelievable".
And yes, I did note he has posted two different seat prices!! I have read many examples of journalistic sensationalism but I really did not think this was one of them. You should have seen some of the articles after the Paris tragedy!
It's Friday, and I'm looking for a "5 minute" argument. So strafer, perhaps you would like to give three examples of "screaming hyperbole", or something "unbelievable".
Last edited by newswatcher; 19th Sep 2003 at 18:59.
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Newswatcher, the other meaning of "unbelievable" in this context is incredulity at the tone of the article.
It can be unbelievable that Beckham left Manchester United, but that doesn't mean it's untrue.
To take the common usage of "unbelievable" at its most literal is the worst kind of semantic pedantry.
Although having said that, I seriously doubt the veracity of
which sounds to me like a quote extracted from, rather than proferred by, a witness.
It can be unbelievable that Beckham left Manchester United, but that doesn't mean it's untrue.
To take the common usage of "unbelievable" at its most literal is the worst kind of semantic pedantry.
Although having said that, I seriously doubt the veracity of
"Glass and plates were flying and people were screaming. It was very scary."
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Bahrainlad, I think we may be in agreement. My point was that, taking that particular quote out of the article, I could not see anything else in the "oh god we are going to die" school of journalism.
Some of the reports in the UK tabloids concerning holiday flight incidents contain many heinous examples!
Maybe it's time for me to do a POETS, like strafer!
Some of the reports in the UK tabloids concerning holiday flight incidents contain many heinous examples!
Maybe it's time for me to do a POETS, like strafer!
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dear sheep shagger,
i saw a political broadcast from plaid cumry last night - the welsh want the euro and a place in the UN - small countries hould be respected. Fine - you can raise your own taxes and forget money from central goverment - accept it you inbread tosser - you need us more than we need you - i mean for godsake your part french
i saw a political broadcast from plaid cumry last night - the welsh want the euro and a place in the UN - small countries hould be respected. Fine - you can raise your own taxes and forget money from central goverment - accept it you inbread tosser - you need us more than we need you - i mean for godsake your part french