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Originally Posted by Skipname
(Post 10175215)
Last month in UK I paid 397£ and my employer payed 524£ for national insurance.
(History lesson: Once Upon A Time NI was supposed to be how you paid for the entire welfare state - of which I think the largest chunk was the old age pension? - but it has long since lost the hypothecation and been subsumed into general taxation. It's now just a component of income tax by another name.) |
"The UK Commons Select Committee for Science and Technology yesterday hauled government bigwigs in to explain themselves in light of the latest round of Galileo handbag-swinging."
Galileo, here we go again. My my, the Brits are gonna miss EU |
Quiet surprised they expect to get any of the Galileo stuff.
Also no mention that the security stuff requires a license to export to another country so per say the next manufacturer is going to have to re-invent the wheel. |
You're right that they don't seem bothered about that at all.
Perhaps you'd better tell them? |
Maybe the solution is going to be a bit more organic
I wonder what the panels solution for the Galileo problem will be! :} ;) |
Sunday Telegraph reporting Galileo replacement system has been given the government go ahead, signed off by both PM and Chancellor. First £100m in funding for contracts has already been signed off by the treasury. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tem-rival-eus/ |
Only to be cancelled in short order when the horrors of a no-deal Brexit reveal themselves and the cash starts to run out. The programme will never happen. It’s anyone’s guess what access the UK might have to high resolution position data. |
As someone who works on the Galileo programme, the UK has absolutely no chance of coming up with its own version any time soon - no cash and not enough expertise. Political posturing and nothing else.
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Another £100m down the Brexit drain. Isn't it costing enough already?
The programme will never happen. It’s anyone’s guess what access the UK might have to high resolution position data. |
Salyann, you seem to have a very good crystal ball, like a lot of other people with opposite views.
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For on the ground stuff SBAS is already getting rolled out. DGPS is already in use and working well for those outside SBAS coverage.
My prediction is neither system will see the light of day. |
Originally Posted by tescoapp
(Post 10233719)
My prediction is neither system will see the light of day.
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Would we not be better buying into an American system? Not withstanding ups and downs, knee jerk reactions, etc we have had a close real special relationship through nuclear deterrence for over 5 decades, a relationship no other State has been close to.
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Not sure why we need our own though - what with GPS, GLONASS and Galileo i would have thought that there was plenty commercially available for anyone. I'm not sure coverage is extended or accuracy (around 5 metres) whether I had one, both switched on, everything seemed exactly the same.... Now Satphone coverage (Voice+Data) are a different matter.... I can well understand the rationale behind adding a few sats for national Security. |
There is more than enough, but its political control over the services which is the major pissing match.
The high accuracy stuff has been leap frogged for commercial users there is now a multitude of services which can be used free with a suitable receiver. The main military user who was also a high contributor is now banned from using the service. Budget and income predictions are now just fantasy land for Galileo. It just going to turn into a colossally expensive transport taxing system and the only way they can make it work is by making it law all cars for the Eu market are fitted with it. A colossal percentage of that market is now evaporating. We shall see if Galileo survives. If it does it will only be for political reasons. |
tescoapp, as expected from someone who didn't even know that Galileo has already seen "the light of day" your post is nonsense. I find it very interesting that a certain type of person seems to demonstrate a perfect inverse correlation between amount of knowledge about a given subject and willingness to express an opinion on that subject. It's pretty pathetic, tbh.
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Originally Posted by Nemrytter
(Post 10236999)
tescoapp, as expected from someone who didn't even know that Galileo has already seen "the light of day" your post is nonsense. I find it very interesting that a certain type of person seems to demonstrate a perfect inverse correlation between amount of knowledge about a given subject and willingness to express an opinion on that subject. It's pretty pathetic, tbh.
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That was my point, to be honest. I don't suffer fools gladly. If he cares to educate himself a bit (I'm sure there's a ladybird book that can help) then I'd be happy to have a proper discussion, however.
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Originally Posted by tescoapp
(Post 10234111)
The main military user who was also a high contributor is now banned from using the service.
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It hasn't seen light of day. There is a cobbled together low Res service which gives no difference service to the other gps services. Incomplete sat coverage.
More than half the sats are running with degraded systems. ie no redundancy of core systems. The core system for the advanced Res is having to be manually run from the ground to prevent further failures. the French are now the only mil user of any note, unless of course they start selling munitions to 3rd parties. Light of day sort of ie if you have a receiver you can pick something up. Fit for use and can deliver the unique service that it's meant to...... It's still in twilight zone never mind dawn and well away from day light. |
Latest four Galileo satellites launched and being commissioned.
https://www.gsc-europa.eu/system-sta...on-Information |
yep leaving 12 more to get launched, plan for 2 in 2020, 2 in 2021.
leaving 8 post 2022. And that's not replacing the broken birds. 700 million a year fixed costs. And no funding confirmed past 2020. |
Originally Posted by tescoapp
(Post 10237464)
yep leaving 12 more to get launched, plan for 2 in 2020, 2 in 2021.
leaving 8 post 2022. And that's not replacing the broken birds. 700 million a year fixed costs. And no funding confirmed past 2020. Some of the early satellites did have clock problems, but these have been largely worked around and the later ones are working normally. Only two of the originals are currently held out of service. When the four newly positioned satellites are fully commissioned there will be 21 providing normal service. Contracts for some of the later ones are still being negotiated. Some of these are for hot spares and not required for immediate service. |
the reports tell you they are broken, I do though have had other pub condensed chat which comes from a place where your pint shakes on the table every week at exactly the same time and day. But nothing that's not public domain its just straight talk without the political waffle and fluffing of the situation.
Only the latest sats which have just gone up have the short circuit fixed in the iridium clock and a changed maser clock. Out of the 22 sats up there two are in the wrong orbit...… And sort of work but again they can't take part in the fancy stuff. The ones that are left 3 are the test beds, IOV sats and are coming to the end of their life, and they are working perfectly but running out of fuel. So out of that 22 there is 11 sats functioning that are mainstream and 4 in commissioning for launch . From that lot that are up there and working there is 6 which are on there second mazzer with no back up. if that one goes they are onto the iridium clocks which means the high precision signal is not possible any more. So out of 22 there at 5 satellites which could be deemed 100% functioning fit for use with backup with a long term future. There is no work round for the short circuit. The maser work round is ground monitoring and control. Low res went live in 2016 no date yet for the high res service. By which point the sbas system will be rolled out so the commercial market in Europe will already have other options apart from DGPS. No license still in the USA so its illegal to use even the low res signal. A few car systems can use it and Iphones and a couple of other smart phones. Currently the service is no different to GPS. The emergency stuff they have got working I believe with a 2 km resolution. |
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So you can offer nothing other than pub gossip. A few car systems can use it and Iphones and a couple of other smart phones. |
Unless they have been sending up repair teams and fixing hardware in orbit with out me seeing details my information is very much current. The everything is ok now is a EU press fluff release.
There are three makes of smart phone who can accept the low Res signal. But none can in the USA. But crack on, we shall see what happens in the future. It will be highly political if they cancel or not. Your opinion that I am an idiot and I am talking nonsense will make absolutely zero difference to the out come. |
The US do not allow the use of any other GNSS. They did not and do not like other nations having positioning systems that the US cannot switch off or control. That's their problem to deal with, although I understand that the EU has requested clearance for Galileo in the US. That of course gets tied up with trade issues.
Naturally it took manufacturers some time to update hardware and software to cater for Galileo reception, and existing devices cannot be retrofitted. Smartphone makers buy in GPS chips from manufacturers like Broadcom, and all GPS chips now made for smartphones and other devices fully support Galileo. If the UK does decide to go ahead with its own GNSS, there will of course be a similar delay of a few years while manufacturers catch up. They may not bother to do so, since smartphone users will already be well served with existing systems including Galileo. The only applications for a UK system will be the military and a few specialised functions. |
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
(Post 10237594)
.
My 18 month old Samsung uses Galileo. Good enough for Govt work!;) |
Originally Posted by sidevalve
(Post 10238027)
and it puts you - let's see - "currently within the EU"..
Good enough for Govt work!;) It certainly worked in Singapore. |
A final note for you, tescoapp.
Car manufacturers in the UK wanting to sell in the EU will have to fit Galileo as original equipment to meet EU regulations. So if you drive a car made in the EU or the UK, or one made elsewhere to sell in the EU, you will be using Galileo whether you like it or not. I'm sure it will get you promptly to your destination. :ok: |
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
(Post 10238017)
The US do not allow the use of any other GNSS. They did not and do not like other nations having positioning systems that the US cannot switch off or control. That's their problem to deal with, although I understand that the EU has requested clearance for Galileo in the US. That of course gets tied up with trade issues.
Are you sure about that? - I am currently sitting in Missouri and my cellphone has no problem using GLONASS with GPS switched off - its currently using 4 of their satellites.. |
Originally Posted by BAengineer
(Post 10238136)
Are you sure about that? - I am currently sitting in Missouri and my cellphone has no problem using GLONASS with GPS switched off - its currently using 4 of their satellites..
Incidentally, which phone are you using? Most don't allow allow you to select which GNSS to use - they are all on or off.. |
A Fellow of the Royal Society for Navigation says with 4 systems in being, and ours 10 years down the line, we would be better going for sLogan as an accurate unjammable backup.
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They will have all of the various flavours fitted as you say it's only a chipset. I suspect all GPS boxes will have all of them. Why not? recieving the low Res signal is free. If one drops out you can use another one. You have 3 sets of data available so you can pick up a fix quicker.
The US it is illegal to receive anything other than GPS. If you have hardware which is not officially US import model it will likely receive all of them. If you root your device you can also remove the restriction. If you blow a new os onto an android device such as Cyanogen you can also get round it. They have no real way of knowing what you are recieving. But it stops people marketing services utilising the other systems. But we shall see what the political choice is if the project continues to be funded or not. Loads more cash needs to be spent to get the full functionality and the market for the commercial product has pretty much evaporated. Thanks to dgps becoming more economic and mainstream and sbas being rolled out through Europe. Anyone that needs accuracy can already do it with a brief case of kit. Or a single box that can receive sbas. Personally I don't think it will survive but we shall see. The financial side of things is going to get interesting. |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tellite-system .......On Friday, May officially announced that the UK would be pulling out of the system and made no mention of any attempt to recoup the UK’s investment. “The commission decided that we would be barred from having full aspects of the Galileo programme and so it is right for us to look for alternatives because it would be wrong to put our [armed] services relying on a system on which they couldn’t be sure of,” May told reporters in Buenos Aires while attending the G20 summit. “That would not be in our national interest.” She added: “So what is in our national interest is to say no, you haven’t allowed us full access, so we will develop an alternative, we will look at alternative options, we are doing that work but we will work with other international partners to do so as well.” Whitehall sources said the issue of the £1.2bn was yet to be finally resolved because the UK could still choose to be involved in commercial aspects of the system. “We will be discussing our past contributions to the financing of Galileo in the upcoming talks,” a senior UK official said. Downing Street said the UK would explore options to build its own Global Navigation Satellite system to help guide military drones, run energy networks and other commercial uses. May said the UK had “world-class engineers and steadfast allies around the world. We are not short of options.” Gavin Williamson, the defence secretary, said the development of a new system would be an opportunity to draw on British skills and expertise in satellite technology. “Space poses a new and increasingly dangerous front for warfare and it is crucial to push ahead with plans for our own world-class, independent satellite system,” he said....... |
ORAC,
"Downing Street said the UK would explore options to build its own Global Navigation Satellite system" Once again, this nonsense completely ignores the fact that the entire UK satellite design, engineering and manufacturing industry is foreign owned, mainly by EU nations, and post Brexit the work will be moving from the UK to Spain, France and Germany. The UK control centre is already moving from Swanwick to Spain. |
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
(Post 10238217)
A Fellow of the Royal Society for Navigation says with 4 systems in being, and ours 10 years down the line, we would be better going for sLogan as an accurate unjammable backup.
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
(Post 10326111)
ORAC,
"Downing Street said the UK would explore options to build its own Global Navigation Satellite system" Once again, this nonsense completely ignores the fact that the entire UK satellite design, engineering and manufacturing industry is foreign owned, mainly by EU nations.... |
wiggy,
Are you suggesting nationalisation? |
Heaven forbid.......just thinking through the reality of "taking back control".......:bored:
Edit to add: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/1...xit_satellite/ |
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