What does this mean ?
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What does this mean ?
"A minimum of 4000 hours total flying time (may include 25% P3 or FEO time to a max of 500 hours)" - Emirates website
What does P3 or FEO time mean ?
Thanks
What does P3 or FEO time mean ?
Thanks
As a Flight Engineer I have faced forwards and sideways depending on aircraft type and phase of flight. As for horizontal, never when on duty unless I was mending something, although I have been the only one awake in the flight deck on occasion!
As to the P3 in your question, some operators used pilots trained to operate the F/E panel and they were variously known as Second Officers, System Panel Operators, etc., but not Flight Engineers as this is a specific license and requires several years of practical aircraft engineering experience.
As to the P3 in your question, some operators used pilots trained to operate the F/E panel and they were variously known as Second Officers, System Panel Operators, etc., but not Flight Engineers as this is a specific license and requires several years of practical aircraft engineering experience.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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In the front of my old (UK) log book P3 is described as, "Pupil Pilot, Pilot under training", however a later CAA log book doesn't mention P3 at all
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I think what they are alluding to is the fact that a certain number of hours spent as a Flight Engineer can count towards the 4,000 hours required by the airline.
Lasors 2010 states at G1.2:
It seems that this airline (Emirates) is allowing an additional amount of time over and above that credited towards an ATPL as being allowed towards their requirement of 4,000 hours (500 hrs FE, rather than 250 hrs for the ATPL).
FOK
Lasors 2010 states at G1.2:
Holders of a Flight Engineer Licence will be credited
with 50% of the flight engineer time up to a maximum
credit of
with 50% of the flight engineer time up to a maximum
credit of
250 hours. This 250 hours may be credited
against the 1500 hours experience requirement
and the 500 hours requirement of a of G1.2 above
against the 1500 hours experience requirement
and the 500 hours requirement of a of G1.2 above
provided that the total credit given against any of the
above does not exceed 250 hours.It seems that this airline (Emirates) is allowing an additional amount of time over and above that credited towards an ATPL as being allowed towards their requirement of 4,000 hours (500 hrs FE, rather than 250 hrs for the ATPL).
FOK
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Dixi - Doesn't one require a Flight Engineer license to sit at the 'Flight Engineer' panel on a 3 man airplane? I can't see it being any different in the UK.
A 3 crew, 2 man airplane would be a different story.
Can I even say 'man' anymore?
A 3 crew, 2 man airplane would be a different story.
Can I even say 'man' anymore?
slowto280,
In the Europe some operators were allowed to train type rated pilots to operate the panel without an F/E license.
In the US I believe an F/E license is required.
I did a US F/E course on Long Island in 2 days in 1990. One of the guys on the course was a Tristar captain who was trying to join a US major and had to start in the middle seat. His technical knowlege was very poor but I think he passed the F/E exam.
Of course you can say "Man" man! It's just a bit difficult when the F/E used to be a man but had an operation.
In the Europe some operators were allowed to train type rated pilots to operate the panel without an F/E license.
In the US I believe an F/E license is required.
I did a US F/E course on Long Island in 2 days in 1990. One of the guys on the course was a Tristar captain who was trying to join a US major and had to start in the middle seat. His technical knowlege was very poor but I think he passed the F/E exam.
Of course you can say "Man" man! It's just a bit difficult when the F/E used to be a man but had an operation.
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Oh man........
Interesting about not needing an F/E license to sit in 'the seat'.
I am thinking maybe it was a 2 day F/E 'gouge' course - in order to pass the test. Most 'real F/E's' may get their feelings hurt regarding a '2-day F/E course'..........
Years back, first job after the Navy, had to get a turbo-prop F/E ticket - only FAA written test was on the Herc or the CL-44 and I had been P-3. Very little (as in none at the time....) civil info on Herc but there was a 'Zweng Manual' (remember those???) on the CL. Did okay, but felt perhaps like your 1011 Capt. Something about 'tailpipe muffs' for anti-ice........ for me , quite 'strange'.
Imagine the 188 has something to do with the Electra.... Good ole' airplanes!
I am thinking maybe it was a 2 day F/E 'gouge' course - in order to pass the test. Most 'real F/E's' may get their feelings hurt regarding a '2-day F/E course'..........
Years back, first job after the Navy, had to get a turbo-prop F/E ticket - only FAA written test was on the Herc or the CL-44 and I had been P-3. Very little (as in none at the time....) civil info on Herc but there was a 'Zweng Manual' (remember those???) on the CL. Did okay, but felt perhaps like your 1011 Capt. Something about 'tailpipe muffs' for anti-ice........ for me , quite 'strange'.
Imagine the 188 has something to do with the Electra.... Good ole' airplanes!
Last edited by slowto280; 17th Oct 2012 at 08:47.
dixi188: In the 70's BEA Airtours operated their Comets and B707-436 with three pilot crews - however the co-pilots also had to qualify for an F/E licence.
This was approved by then then CAA. Co-pilots alternated seats and also did both pilot and F/E comp. checks.
This was approved by then then CAA. Co-pilots alternated seats and also did both pilot and F/E comp. checks.
I flew with ex Transair (Irish) A300 FOs who had been panel operators without FE license. Also I think the Dutch did the same.
The 2 day course was Read all the questions and answers, about 1200, then take the exam. I then did the Electra course with Zantop at Willow Run.
7 years on the Electra and 15 on the A300-B4. Now out of work.
The 2 day course was Read all the questions and answers, about 1200, then take the exam. I then did the Electra course with Zantop at Willow Run.
7 years on the Electra and 15 on the A300-B4. Now out of work.
