How to fly an approach without the plate

[rennaps]

Saw this in a magazine.

How to fly an approach without the plate. (Not recommended, but it can be done)

I think this practice is fraught with danger

[mad_jock]

NPA I would agree with but an ILS not so bad.

Yes its preferable to be prepared and all the rest of the good stuff.But when you decide you diverting then find out that some knob has either taken that plate, not put them back where they should or for some reason your having a brain fart because you have not remember that the airport has changed its name eg pennygreen to wolverhampton international spaceport. Its far better to fess up quickly and then ask the ATC to quickly read out the frequency,track,mins and go around instructions. Than have a pilot single crewing it while the other one goes off on a search. If your single crew even more so Aviate first.

[mattyj]

Get it on your ipad..geez really its 2012!!

[Denti]

Agree with mad_jock for the most of it. Recently had the nasty experience of being nearly without any charts as the only powersource for both EFBs failed while one was out of juice to begin with. As the second leg was back to home base we didn't use the remaining EFB for that but briefed by heart, for any diversion we would have had to ask ATC to provide us with the minimum (all other info is kept within the FMC).

[Spitoon]

Speaking as an ex-controller, wherever I worked I had to be able to describe the approach in plain English and in step-by-step chunks to cater for this situation. Only ever had to do it once in nearly 20 years and it didn't cause any great problems - for me or the pilot.

[paulsalem]

There is a runway at the end of every ILS.

[Herod]

There is a runway at the end of every ILS. Not at Kai Tak there wasn't!!

[Doodlebug]

Eh? Denti, for a 'paperless' cockpit, is there not a requirement to have an electronic back-up, e.g. Jeppview on a laptop, in case those EFB's go tits-up?

[Denti]

Nope. Two independent FMC and two independent EFB is all it takes for us. Our FMC provides the frequency for any ILS approach, other approaches are flown them from the database only in any case, runway length info is provided for each landing runway as well.

[Doodlebug]

Ok, thought there was some legislation somewhere.

We've had issues with EFB's going on strike, e.g. 'freezing up', GPS tracking dropping offline, or simply not booting up properly at all, at the start of the day. Found the backup charts to be handy, on occasion.

Toodle-pip

[Denti]

Ok, thought there was some legislation somewhere.

Could very well be, after all legislations are quite different about stuff like that. It is kinda hard to get an iPad approved as EFB, if it is possible at all, over here, in other regions of the world its not hard at all.

[LongTimeInCX]

There is a runway at the end of every ILS. Not at Kai Tak there wasn't!!

That's because it was not an ILS, so Kai Tak doesn't count old chap.

[BOAC]

Innsbruck?

[i_like_tea]

Naples.. Slightly offset on 06

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

Reggio Calabria?

[8314]

@BOAC: INN is LOC Appr (offset ) but provides GS info.

[TopBunk]

Kai Tak was described as an IGS (Instrument Guidance System)rather than an ILS, still had the same components but rather than a 2 or 3 degree offset, it was (from memory) 47 degrees! I have sat on the checkerboard by the G/S transmitter and seen the LLZ aerial below in a field, while watching various operators 'attack' the runway in a variety of manners, some pretty ... some not!

Genoa 29 & JFK 22R are also offset

[BillieBob]

There is a runway at the end of every ILS.

Not true, there is at least one ILS that has nothing more than a research facility and a lot of tall trees at the end.