Peter Bush..the latest
Just another number
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How much money got handed over? Did anyone get any back?
Airclues
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Ok im confused,,,,,
Apologies for not looking back i havent been into pprune for a couple of months, last time i saw it he was going for a scan and everyone was behind him, what happend?
Prepairing for barage of people saying read the thread.......
Apologies for not looking back i havent been into pprune for a couple of months, last time i saw it he was going for a scan and everyone was behind him, what happend?
Prepairing for barage of people saying read the thread.......
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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DBB - you are excused. Owing to the kerfuffle and ruffling of feathers the thread caused, it was placed 'somewhere else' and you can not read it even if you tried.
I think the best solution would be for NSF to produce an update?
I think the best solution would be for NSF to produce an update?
Last edited by BOAC; 17th Sep 2005 at 10:22.
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Normal Nigel
First of all, I have only today become aware of the existence of this thread so that is why I have apparently taken so long to reply.
You wrote of 'Peter Bush - The Apology'. I am absolutely delighted to accept your apology for exhibiting such overwhelming foolishness, stupidity and ignorance on this issue. Despite countless offers to enter into dialogue on the subject, you failed to contact me or Piper Hack (the starter of the original Peter Bush thread) and proceeded to broadcast incorrect and damaging accusations. Another of your mates, Flybywire, started a similar thread a short while ago (also presumablly wishing to apologise for his foolishness!), but before I could reply it was stopped. During that thread he referred to the 'sanctimonious wankers' like myself who had acted on Peter Bush's behalf. I have PM'd him to offer yet again to provide evidence to him of the details of this case but needless to say I am still waiting.
I chose to become involved with Peter's case when I read the original thread about a fellow pilot who was injured in a ground accident whilst at work in 1988 and has not worked since. Having run a few checks on the validity of the claims, I organised a fund to pay for his medical expenses. The deal I came up with was that Peter would never personally receive a penny and I would directly pay all bills from the fund as long as there was money to pay. This fund was, and is, completely open for everyone to see and anyone can approach me at any time for a 'to-the-penny' breakdown of expenditure. The money was collected in a Pay-pal business account and then an HSBC 'Treasurer's Account' at my local branch. As of this morning a total of £1336.00 has been spent on various medical expenses (MRI scan and private consultants' fees) and £337.14 remains in the bank account. A very small sum (about 4% of the PayPal contributions totally about £20 off the top of my head) was spent on charges levied by PayPal for running the account. The remaining money will be paid out for medical expenses as and when they occur - and some are scheduled to occur shortly.
The original thread came to an end very quickly (not at my behest) and at the time I placed a long and detailed post on the subject. I do, however, appreciate that not everyone may have seen what I wrote before the thread was removed and that it may have seemed very sudden You may all be interested to know that Peter was so upset at the negative publicity that had occurred that he sent me a cheque for £500 to pay back all the contributors. I held onto the cheque for a few weeks and then ripped it up. You may also be interested to know that I have not received a single request from any contributor for any money back - and if I do receive one they will be re-imbursed immediately without discussion or complaint.
For those who missed my original 'closing speech' I will therefore try and sum up the salient points. The first thing to say is that Peter Bush does exist and I have met him! In its own way, his case is one of the most tragic I have come across and is very complex. The facts that are indisputable and that I have personally checked out are as follows – he was a professional pilot working for a company called Fairflight Ltd flying ‘Sheds’. He was in the process of getting a job on 737s with another company when in March 1988 he was injured falling over some cargo in an aircraft he had been flying and was in the process of getting out of on the ground. He picked up a severe knee injury that was not diagnosed at the time and continued flying for 3 days – partly under duress from the company Ops Director who threatened to dismiss him if he did not do so. Eventually he was seen by a doctor following an incident when he was incapacitated in flight. There is considerable evidence to suggest that his case was initially misdiagnosed and Peter has essentially not worked since that time over 17 years ago. He was dismissed from his job at Fairflight and has not worked as a pilot since. He now lives in circumstances most of us would consider to be poverty-stricken in a small flat in Bristol. He has had a number of MRI scans but despite many attempts in the UK he has been unable to receive the full set of diagnostic tests that could reasonably have been expected. These tests would include an angiogram and arthrogram. Consequently he sought treatment overseas that was financed by borrowing money from the bank and using his mother’s life savings. These are the bare facts which I have gone to considerable length to check out and am happy to state are true.
As a result of this, I organised the fund above and collected money to attempt to pay for private medical treatment to finally get to the bottom of what is actually wrong with him. Whether that was the right thing to do or not is for others to judge, but that is what happened. During the attempt to gather funds a number of contributors including Normal Nigel made repeated accusations that the Peter Bush story was a fraud and should not be trusted. I offered on many occasions to speak privately to these individuals but not a single person took me up on the offer. Nonetheless, the damage was done and people became understandably concerned about what was going on.
That is the stuff that ‘hand on heart’ I can say is true. Now to the more difficult bit. Over the years that Peter has sought medical treatment there is no doubt in my mind that he has not helped himself. He moved from area to area seeking fresh diagnoses and did not always turn up to appointments made for him. He has on a number of occasions lost confidence in the doctors treating him and has come to believe that a conspiracy has been perpetrated against him by the NHS. That would include the collusion of various consultants who were essentially protecting themselves against future litigation. Although I cannot say with absolute certainty that the conspiracy did not take place, I am 99% confident it did not. There is some evidence to suggest that the first consultant who treated him misdiagnosed the initial injury and tried to cover it up. There is, however, no credible evidence I have seen (and believe me I have looked!) to suggest that a conspiracy on a grand scale ever took place. The difficulty we now find is that Peter’s injuries are now very old and also some surgical repairs were carried out in the past (arthroscopy?). Peter has now developed high blood pressure and an arthritic condition in the injured knee. I am not a doctor and I cannot therefore say with any certainty if these are as a direct result of his original injuries. What I can say is that Peter was given indications by oversees doctors that his condition is down to vascular damage in his leg. He is absolutely convinced that this is the case and will not be persuaded otherwise.
This leads us to the examination that was arranged for him at a private hospital using the PPrune contributions. He was given an MRI scan and met with both orthopaedic and vascular surgeons to discuss his case. He had a ‘doppler test’ booked but did not turn up as he believed by then that the results of his MRI scan had been mixed with previous MRI scans. I need to re-emphasise that I am a pilot and not a doctor therefore I can only use common sense in dealing with this and not medical training. Nonetheless, I have personally seen and checked the old scans against the new ones and have seen absolutely no evidence to suggest that the latest tests have been falsified. Nonetheless, it was most unfortunate that the full range of possible vascular tests were not carried out and that a written diagnosis was issued prior to a full examination being made. This only served to increase Peter’s sense of a conspiracy. I choose to believe that it was a most unfortunate oversight but nonetheless it has been unhelpful.
So there you have it. You have a man who was injured in his work (and it could so easily have been any one of us frankly). From that began a nightmare series of misunderstandings on both sides. The NHS would say Peter is fixated with a pre-determined diagnosis and is therefore mentally unbalanced. He would say that all he wants is a full set of tests which 17 years on he has still never had. What I can tell you is that a former commercial pilot who had his whole career ahead of him now lives on his own in a wheelchair in Bristol. He is in constant pain and cannot walk more than a few paces at a time. I am willing to accept that Peter has not helped himself, but I would have felt so much more at ease if I had seen a full diagnosis carried out with the full range of tests available.
Where does that leave Peter now? I spoke to him yesterday morning and he is currently saving up to pay for these tests overseas. The remaining money I have in my possession from the PPrune contributors (which is a drop in the ocean) will be used to pay for those tests when they happen. As promised the money will be paid directly to the medical provider and not to Peter. I cannot say he will proved right about his diagnosis. What I can say is that he could and should have been given the full range of tests on the NHS and he would then have been in a position to move on with the rest of his live. Piper Hack, who originally started the thread, did a great thing in bringing this to the attention of us all. I do not regret for one minute my involvement with Peter and if I can do anything for him in the future I will do so.
First of all, I have only today become aware of the existence of this thread so that is why I have apparently taken so long to reply.
You wrote of 'Peter Bush - The Apology'. I am absolutely delighted to accept your apology for exhibiting such overwhelming foolishness, stupidity and ignorance on this issue. Despite countless offers to enter into dialogue on the subject, you failed to contact me or Piper Hack (the starter of the original Peter Bush thread) and proceeded to broadcast incorrect and damaging accusations. Another of your mates, Flybywire, started a similar thread a short while ago (also presumablly wishing to apologise for his foolishness!), but before I could reply it was stopped. During that thread he referred to the 'sanctimonious wankers' like myself who had acted on Peter Bush's behalf. I have PM'd him to offer yet again to provide evidence to him of the details of this case but needless to say I am still waiting.
I chose to become involved with Peter's case when I read the original thread about a fellow pilot who was injured in a ground accident whilst at work in 1988 and has not worked since. Having run a few checks on the validity of the claims, I organised a fund to pay for his medical expenses. The deal I came up with was that Peter would never personally receive a penny and I would directly pay all bills from the fund as long as there was money to pay. This fund was, and is, completely open for everyone to see and anyone can approach me at any time for a 'to-the-penny' breakdown of expenditure. The money was collected in a Pay-pal business account and then an HSBC 'Treasurer's Account' at my local branch. As of this morning a total of £1336.00 has been spent on various medical expenses (MRI scan and private consultants' fees) and £337.14 remains in the bank account. A very small sum (about 4% of the PayPal contributions totally about £20 off the top of my head) was spent on charges levied by PayPal for running the account. The remaining money will be paid out for medical expenses as and when they occur - and some are scheduled to occur shortly.
The original thread came to an end very quickly (not at my behest) and at the time I placed a long and detailed post on the subject. I do, however, appreciate that not everyone may have seen what I wrote before the thread was removed and that it may have seemed very sudden You may all be interested to know that Peter was so upset at the negative publicity that had occurred that he sent me a cheque for £500 to pay back all the contributors. I held onto the cheque for a few weeks and then ripped it up. You may also be interested to know that I have not received a single request from any contributor for any money back - and if I do receive one they will be re-imbursed immediately without discussion or complaint.
For those who missed my original 'closing speech' I will therefore try and sum up the salient points. The first thing to say is that Peter Bush does exist and I have met him! In its own way, his case is one of the most tragic I have come across and is very complex. The facts that are indisputable and that I have personally checked out are as follows – he was a professional pilot working for a company called Fairflight Ltd flying ‘Sheds’. He was in the process of getting a job on 737s with another company when in March 1988 he was injured falling over some cargo in an aircraft he had been flying and was in the process of getting out of on the ground. He picked up a severe knee injury that was not diagnosed at the time and continued flying for 3 days – partly under duress from the company Ops Director who threatened to dismiss him if he did not do so. Eventually he was seen by a doctor following an incident when he was incapacitated in flight. There is considerable evidence to suggest that his case was initially misdiagnosed and Peter has essentially not worked since that time over 17 years ago. He was dismissed from his job at Fairflight and has not worked as a pilot since. He now lives in circumstances most of us would consider to be poverty-stricken in a small flat in Bristol. He has had a number of MRI scans but despite many attempts in the UK he has been unable to receive the full set of diagnostic tests that could reasonably have been expected. These tests would include an angiogram and arthrogram. Consequently he sought treatment overseas that was financed by borrowing money from the bank and using his mother’s life savings. These are the bare facts which I have gone to considerable length to check out and am happy to state are true.
As a result of this, I organised the fund above and collected money to attempt to pay for private medical treatment to finally get to the bottom of what is actually wrong with him. Whether that was the right thing to do or not is for others to judge, but that is what happened. During the attempt to gather funds a number of contributors including Normal Nigel made repeated accusations that the Peter Bush story was a fraud and should not be trusted. I offered on many occasions to speak privately to these individuals but not a single person took me up on the offer. Nonetheless, the damage was done and people became understandably concerned about what was going on.
That is the stuff that ‘hand on heart’ I can say is true. Now to the more difficult bit. Over the years that Peter has sought medical treatment there is no doubt in my mind that he has not helped himself. He moved from area to area seeking fresh diagnoses and did not always turn up to appointments made for him. He has on a number of occasions lost confidence in the doctors treating him and has come to believe that a conspiracy has been perpetrated against him by the NHS. That would include the collusion of various consultants who were essentially protecting themselves against future litigation. Although I cannot say with absolute certainty that the conspiracy did not take place, I am 99% confident it did not. There is some evidence to suggest that the first consultant who treated him misdiagnosed the initial injury and tried to cover it up. There is, however, no credible evidence I have seen (and believe me I have looked!) to suggest that a conspiracy on a grand scale ever took place. The difficulty we now find is that Peter’s injuries are now very old and also some surgical repairs were carried out in the past (arthroscopy?). Peter has now developed high blood pressure and an arthritic condition in the injured knee. I am not a doctor and I cannot therefore say with any certainty if these are as a direct result of his original injuries. What I can say is that Peter was given indications by oversees doctors that his condition is down to vascular damage in his leg. He is absolutely convinced that this is the case and will not be persuaded otherwise.
This leads us to the examination that was arranged for him at a private hospital using the PPrune contributions. He was given an MRI scan and met with both orthopaedic and vascular surgeons to discuss his case. He had a ‘doppler test’ booked but did not turn up as he believed by then that the results of his MRI scan had been mixed with previous MRI scans. I need to re-emphasise that I am a pilot and not a doctor therefore I can only use common sense in dealing with this and not medical training. Nonetheless, I have personally seen and checked the old scans against the new ones and have seen absolutely no evidence to suggest that the latest tests have been falsified. Nonetheless, it was most unfortunate that the full range of possible vascular tests were not carried out and that a written diagnosis was issued prior to a full examination being made. This only served to increase Peter’s sense of a conspiracy. I choose to believe that it was a most unfortunate oversight but nonetheless it has been unhelpful.
So there you have it. You have a man who was injured in his work (and it could so easily have been any one of us frankly). From that began a nightmare series of misunderstandings on both sides. The NHS would say Peter is fixated with a pre-determined diagnosis and is therefore mentally unbalanced. He would say that all he wants is a full set of tests which 17 years on he has still never had. What I can tell you is that a former commercial pilot who had his whole career ahead of him now lives on his own in a wheelchair in Bristol. He is in constant pain and cannot walk more than a few paces at a time. I am willing to accept that Peter has not helped himself, but I would have felt so much more at ease if I had seen a full diagnosis carried out with the full range of tests available.
Where does that leave Peter now? I spoke to him yesterday morning and he is currently saving up to pay for these tests overseas. The remaining money I have in my possession from the PPrune contributors (which is a drop in the ocean) will be used to pay for those tests when they happen. As promised the money will be paid directly to the medical provider and not to Peter. I cannot say he will proved right about his diagnosis. What I can say is that he could and should have been given the full range of tests on the NHS and he would then have been in a position to move on with the rest of his live. Piper Hack, who originally started the thread, did a great thing in bringing this to the attention of us all. I do not regret for one minute my involvement with Peter and if I can do anything for him in the future I will do so.
Just another number
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NSF
I'm sure that the vast majority of PPRuNers appreciate the time and effort that you have spent trying to help a fellow aviator. If there was a 'PPRuNer of the Year' award then I would be putting your name forward. However, don't hold your breath waiting for an apology from normal_nigel.
Please PM me if you need any more help.
Airclues
I'm sure that the vast majority of PPRuNers appreciate the time and effort that you have spent trying to help a fellow aviator. If there was a 'PPRuNer of the Year' award then I would be putting your name forward. However, don't hold your breath waiting for an apology from normal_nigel.
Please PM me if you need any more help.
Airclues
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dear airbus captain norman
Dear captain Norman Stanley Fletcher
Since you've involved me in quite a "melodramatic" way in all of this, please give me an explanation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! (I think we both know you owe me one!!!!!!!!!)
Please check your PMs.....and no, I have nothing to be ashamed of, apart from having learnt just now who this Peter Bush was!
Ciao
FBW
Since you've involved me in quite a "melodramatic" way in all of this, please give me an explanation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! (I think we both know you owe me one!!!!!!!!!)
Please check your PMs.....and no, I have nothing to be ashamed of, apart from having learnt just now who this Peter Bush was!
Ciao
FBW
Last edited by flybywire; 20th Sep 2005 at 12:13.
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A clarification!
I alluded to a PPruner called 'flybywire' (or a very similar name) in my post who is a 'mate' of Normal Nigel. In the previous lengthy thread on Peter Bush this chap made a number of derogatory and ill-informed comments on the subject and recently started a thread referring to 'sanctimonious wankers' who had criticised his views on Peter Bush.
For reasons I cannot understand it appears that there are several 'flybywires' or people with very similar names! I wish to say that the 'flybywire' who contributed to this debate a little earlier is not the same chap, and any association to him is completely unintentional! I have PM'd this 'flybywire' to apologise for incorrectly associating him with the other one! I am slightly confused myself and can only wait for the 'other' flybywire to re-appear out from under his stone! Apologies for any offence to the wholly innocent and decent 'flybywire'.
I alluded to a PPruner called 'flybywire' (or a very similar name) in my post who is a 'mate' of Normal Nigel. In the previous lengthy thread on Peter Bush this chap made a number of derogatory and ill-informed comments on the subject and recently started a thread referring to 'sanctimonious wankers' who had criticised his views on Peter Bush.
For reasons I cannot understand it appears that there are several 'flybywires' or people with very similar names! I wish to say that the 'flybywire' who contributed to this debate a little earlier is not the same chap, and any association to him is completely unintentional! I have PM'd this 'flybywire' to apologise for incorrectly associating him with the other one! I am slightly confused myself and can only wait for the 'other' flybywire to re-appear out from under his stone! Apologies for any offence to the wholly innocent and decent 'flybywire'.