Best and Worst Airline in China
 

Looking to get some good information regarding an A320 captain in Asia

​​​​​​I want to ask if the info is correct.

Good Hotels quality any of the Hna group.. (Hna; Bca; Lucky Air...)
Best paid is BCA and also Lucky Air
Worst roster and quality of life Spring Airlines (crapy schedule)
Most balanced Juneyao Airline. Good roster. Good hotels; people are happy

People told me Spring is now the worst one in Asia.

Any updated info?
​​

HNA airlines do not necessarily have the best hotels. Tianjin Airlines is well known for crappy hotels.
Xiamen Air and Juneyao seem to have the best.

My votes:
Best: Juneyao, BCA (with SYX base), Xiamen Air
Worst: Okay Air, Tianjin Airlines, UniTop

Got it

Seem to be the best one BCA
I dont know what about the roster/life balance...

Any updated information?

In that point, the worst for sure as people told me is Spring Airlines

Best balanced, seems to be Juneyao.. good roster, not the best pay, not the lowest one, nice hotels, nice layovers...

I would suggest you check carefully your informations on Juneyao. I have spent there the first three years (one contract) of my still ongoing adventure in the Middle Kingdom. I don't work there anymore, but I have very close friends there. Yes, there are some nice layovers (BKK, HKT, CNX, KIX) but that is due to red eye flights. Also beware of a lot of split duties, show up at 3.50 am and end at 00.30 pm or later, due to never ending delays. Be careful also with the way you will be paid especially if you are resident in some country really tight on taxation issues. Shanghai is a very amazing place, but very expensive. The medical and LOL coverage is just funny, and so on. All in all, I moved to another airline, commuting contract, and so far I haven't regretted my decision.
Best luck for your choice.
Joe

Then the worst two are Juneyao and Spring Airlines as people explain.

Bad rosters, always crapy hotels, ****ty places, lots of split duties.
Good flights for only Chinese pilots.
Juneyao, the offer now 6/2 6/3 and also 4/4

Then, BCA looks like the best option in terms of lifestyle and salary

Be careful with any airline in the Hainan Group. That entire company is very close to insolvency. It's to the point that they are asking employees to "invest" in the company:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/01/b...employees.html

Ok

Then I think China is not for me now

Hna groups better to stay away

Juneyao not so good as expected

Spring Airline worst Airline in China in terms of salary and roster

I will see what about Hong Kong

China Airlines by far. For all the horror stories you hear about China, at least you are paid well.
What used to be a great job, has fast turned into one of the worst around.
Conditions eroded, min rest turn arounds nearly everywhere, staff travel expensive (full fare cheaper on some routes).
Failure rate amongst Ex Pats over 50% on some fleets.
Oh and non ICAO state, so your licence is not recognised anywhere else in the world.

Are you talking about the Airlines in China or China Airlines in Taiwan? To start, China Airlines (CI) never paid well! And to dates, it is still by far below the industry standard! Taiwan of course is a NONE ICAO states.

However, if you were talking about the Airlines in China, they do paid pretty good minus the hidden deductions and fines! But China is a memeber of ICAO.

Slarberg, maybe would be better to start from what you are looking for and put that on a priority sequence.
Put things in perspective, airlines here aren't absolutely "bad" or "great": they are all slightly different from each other so I think it is possible to find some that suits your needs. For example, I don't run a business but sometime I play the game of the small recruiter (only with people I know of, so fa): I suggested Juneyao to few friends of mine because, all in all, their needs where most suited from Juneyao, and here I talk globally, I mean I talk also about technical background. This is a job that a good agency should provide: advertisements,because there are more than 55 airlines out there.
Actually the recruiting process is becoming more time consuming, for some reasons I cannot discuss here, so my suggestions is that if you are willing to walk on the silk road then would be better that you start sooner than later.
Happy landings.
Joe.

Thanks Joe

I know they pay that money because of something; but If I nove to China with my wife; I want to spend some time with her. And also; she will reject to go to China if she has to stay alone during my 4 weeks On. Some colleges told me in Spring they are only 4 days in Shanghai every 4 weeks ON. Others told me they are at Juneyao having 2/3 nights out Shanghai every two weeks.
Another in Hna group is only 1 night outside every week.

Then; everything is a mix. High salary; weeks off but also having time off with family or frienda is a MUST for me.
I dont want to stay alone flying and also my wife alone in any Chinese place waiting me for 1 single day Off

i also have a couple of questions:

1- is true that all chinese airlines publish the schedule on a weekly base?

2-if I decide to apply to CSA and fail one step, will it be difficult to have your paper released in order to apply to another chinese carrier?
thx guyz

Friend told me
1- yes. It depends on company; but nornally you have 7 days schedule.
Some like CSA told me only few days...

2-If you apply to one company; you will never be able to go to another company (you have to finish the contract and then... Few months)
If you fail; you will never give the release

1 - mostly true, but nothing to do in China anyway in your free time, so what's the issue...

2 - not possible. Apply with one airline, be stuck with them.

Lucky air
 

Anybody working in lucky air, can you please give us your feedback reg pros and cons?
How's the contract compliance if one chose month on and off roster? Commuting? Medical? PM me if you like.
Thanks

It all depends on what you failed and of the companies involved. Some companies will let you go, some not, some companies will do the paperwork in order to get your release from the previous one, some not.

So to summarize, it is possible, it just depends on your specific scenario.

China Airlines (CI). Obviously I was not referring to ALL Chinese Airlines.

The union have taken control of the airline to the detrement of Expat conditions.
The lifestyle used to more than make up for the uncompetitive Salary. Not anymore.
Being a non ICAO state has become more problematic than I had ever imagined.

Surprisingly, the medical is probably one of the easier things to deal with here.

1 - Generally schedule is done on a monthly basis but you only find out your new schedule 1/2 weeks beforehand.

2 - Like all airlines in China, once you start the screening process you must stay with that airline until completed. If you fail any part of the process you can repeat (unless medical fail or sim assessment fail) or you can then wait 6 months and apply to a different airline once your licence verification has expired. However, once you join the airline you must stay for the length of your contract before moving. Also if you fail the CAAC check ride, you can not join any airline in China

I just checked what they offer....
And the offer is pretty good.
2 weeks ON 2 weeks OFF.
During Chinese New year no flights all.month.

And salary for that contract is the same as other working much more...

They accept NTR for the 757/767?

@ TPE Flyer

Hi,
could you give me some details i.e. T & C with CI, please?
Can one commute on this contract? What is the salary?
Thank you!

What about Shenzhen Donghai Airlines and Xiamen?
Xiamen had a month on month off but best now is a 38 on 22 off.
Heard they are pretty decent outfit.
I know nothing about Shenzhen Donghai but they are offering 30 on 30 off.

SF is regarded as one of if not the best airline to work for in China amongst the locals.

The expats I have met there all seem very happy aswell.
They pay very well for hardly any hours and have a rock solid 2 weeks on 2 weeks off option.
Main downside being lots of night flying but you cant have it all I guess........

If you dont mind being away 2 weeks then definitely one of the better options available in China.

Cheers,

Juneyao Airlines
 

Hi Joe,

Care to share more information about Juneyao since you've spent 3 years there. How's the culture, environment and support from the company? I've attended their roadshow last year but would like to know more in depth from you being a previous employee. PM me if you prefer,Many Thanks.

You will spend always 2 weeks outside?
I mean. You start and always re outside base until last day of your 2 weeks On?

Its not a true commuting contract. You do get a block of 8 days off every month to go home. Own time travel. You get to choose 1 Commuting port (used to be 6). If flight is full, must apply for leave until you can get back. Not all EU ports are served daily. Maximum of 16 days in a row off.
Housing allownce doesn't cover the hotel. (hotel price increased 50% in my time here). The Chinese definition of clean, modern and furnished apartment is not the same as mine.
Pay around USD$10,000 per month, that includes all allowances. Overtime, maybe 1 month per year.
Half pay while training, training. Can take up to 6 months to see a full wage.

That's basically it.

Lots of Taiwanese captains coming to China. For a reason.

Most people are friendly but being helpful is tough due to the system. Roster is published weekly (Friday evening roster is published for the following week). Operating out of two airports (PVG and SHA) makes travel time in company transport lengthy.

Overall is a good place to make $$$ but at the expense of family time. Is ideal for single guys and those running away from family :O, if you don't mind working long hours (delays by atc is common) and getting minimal rest.

Shanghai is a great city to live (not cheap thou), but to have the family here education and housing are expensive. So if you planning to have more time with your family, you definitely have to take the commuting contract.

It is more than one year and half that I don't fly there anymore. I think would be better if someone actually working in JUNEYAO could give first hand impression . When I was there...company it is not bad, culture is Chinese but from ops side it was ok: I have been helped by not having ever had a punishment and by doing some good sim with the big boss, so actually my life was pretty simple . Anyway I hated the careless actions of HR: when I needed something from then the answe has always been " you are employed by your agency so ask them" ; when they needed something I was employed by them. Add to that the refrain like "it is written in the contract and if you don't find it it is because the Chinese part is a little bit different" or " we don't care, we are JUNEYAO ". Add to that the useless and ****ty agency I had at that time and the fact that I joined when things were still a little bit rusty. Anyway I have to say that company improved a lot. Be careful: to count the pilots able to leave and change airline after first contract it is enough one hand; Juneyao won't let you simply go. I did it but I worked hard for it. Cheers.

Thanks gyro3 and Joe.

Any insights of the training?eg,line training,base check,line check…etc

Is the company punitive in nature or do they adopt an open culture towards training and daily operations?

I'm from a South East Asia country with about 2000hrs on the A320 as a Captain. Wondering if this move to China will be worth it?:confused:

Starting from the last question: nobody can tell you if it is worth. You should consider your attitude, pros and cons carefully.
Bear in mind that in my opinion any airline in Shanghai won't be the right choice if your gol is making money the fastest you can: contracts are generally lower and life is expensive. Been there done that. To understand better, where I am now, smaller airline in second tier city in China, the 6/3 commuting contract has the same monthly base pay as the Juneyao resident contract but bonuses are higher and I have reimbursement for medical insurance and loss of license insurance.
Juneyao applies strictly the punishment rules that are in force almost everywhere in China: that said, on the other side they won't fire anybody except in very selected cases. The length of training depends on the circumstances: if company doesn't need captains to fill in the gap, training can be painfully long, and you will be stacked at training pay; if they need captains fast, in three months you will be released in line. Juneyao is one of the easier airline when it comes to checking : where I am just recently two captains willing to join from Juneyao have failed the sim.
All in all it is an average gig with usual pros and cons: your priorities dictate the choice.

Where are you now Joe?

Which city and airline are you now?

joe falchetto

Thank you very much,Joe. That is very valuable information, I appreciate it. Cheers

Please forgive me if I don't give you other details on company and location: sometime I am involved in pilot recruiting and I prefer not to mix that activity on this public forum because I think it wouldn't be fair. I directed some people to Juneyao because after talking with them and after having made a complete assessment of their needs, expectations and professional background I suggested them that choice. For others I suggested other opportunities: where to apply it is always a matter that need a full analysis based on very personal characteristics. I cannot suggest the airline where I work now for a pilot that isn't a CAAC ATP license holder: people are nice, environment is nice, but training can be risky; so far only three out of eight western foreign captain have been released in line. It must be said that all three had the CAAC ATP from previous employment in China, the other five were at their first experience.
Happy landings.

Does anybody have some more info about Uni-Top?

Worst airline in china
 

Astro air , Will not honour the contract, will not pay, will not renew your CAAC, FAA licence they will use and abuse. Stay away, try TAG aviation instead.

Agency
 

Anyone used CAVOK-fly.com as agency? I know longreach and rishworth etc are better known. Any idea why shouldn’t go got smaller more local agency? Any advice/help appreciated. Thinking CSA, Xiamen etc

The worst one still being Spring Airlines¡¡¡

Lowest salary in China
Bad Hotels¡¡¡
NO words about Rosters.... 6 days a month in Shanghai. You will love ZBSJ, ZGGG, ZGSZ, ZSYA,

Worst Airline Ever¡¡¡

Don't know them but my main suggestion specific for Xiamen knowing a couple of guys working there is that you use an agency who has someone based in Xiamen. It will make the process much easier and more supportive. That is the first question you should ask any agency.

Well

All the people we used to think that if "our" manager works also for a Chinesse Airline, seems to be good for us, but you may notice that the have some other "problems"

Lets see, Why a Broker manager, pilot on a Chinesse Airline is GOING to push to any airline, if the GET money from that Airline?

They have too many interest in the company, they are NOT going to push any company, because the GET money from that company....

Then... is not going to help you