Get rich in China?
Sorry as I expect this may have been done already ........
Many job ads out there at the moment offering USD 300,000 net (net!) a year, full time contracts. USD 200,000+ for 4 week-on, 4 week-off commuter contracts, again net pay. This is massively more than you can earn as a short-haul Captain in Europe. Even the 'part-time' option nets more than double what I get in Europe full time. Accepting it's in China, and not 50 miles up the motorway, what is the catch? Heard LOTS of bad stuff about rostering, hotels, leave, etc. But this is Vs a frankly huge level of remuneration on offer. You'd have to have a mercenary attitude to do it, but Vs the money is it really such a bad deal? I'd be looking for 3-5 years max of this to finish off the mortgage early. Thoughts? :ok: |
Rostering, hotels is the least of your worries, the problem is getting on line and the endless paperwork and delays it takes to get you there. Plan 8-12 months if everything goes to plan and even then that is with 2 med and 2 sim rides passed, plus the atp exam which is not a walk over.
The money is there for a reason because its hard to get over the line and they have a high need of capts but due to their rules (one of which is ruling many nationalities out of applying due to the diplomatic relations rule) most people can not , its not there because the air is bad, the chinese are difficult blah blah.... |
Thanks BAe
In a nutshell, a 'pilot shortage', and they STILL make it difficult for us!!!!! |
Ther are not motivated to make it easy for expats
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Originally Posted by Fire and brimstone
(Post 9944177)
Accepting it's in China, and not 50 miles up the motorway, what is the catch? Example:- The quoted salary is based on maximum overtime (which you will never do). There are a number of examples where you are lured in with one contract and then when it's time to sign (bridges burnt) you are presented with a contract featuring lower terms and conditions. If it was really that easy we'd all be flying there..... |
Originally Posted by Eric Janson
(Post 9944726)
Throwing out numbers is meaningless without a detailed breakdown of how this number is calculated.
Example:- The quoted salary is based on maximum overtime (which you will never do). There are a number of examples where you are lured in with one contract and then when it's time to sign (bridges burnt) you are presented with a contract featuring lower terms and conditions. If it was really that easy we'd all be flying there..... |
With who ?
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Originally Posted by fatbus
(Post 9945101)
With who ?
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I would say go for it but make sure you have an exit plan as you may need it sooner than 3-5 years. Don't leave a stable long term job to come to China. What is happening now in the aviation world can and does change rapidly. When you come to China expect 3-4 trips to accomplish all the screening and 6-9 months before you are hired and the process is only getting worse as the CAAC puts endless rounds of verifications and checks before they give your target company the green light to hire you. When you start expect about 1 year before you are checked to the line and endless hoops, checks, and you will be screened inside a glass house continuously during that period. After checked to the line expect a minimum of 6 months before you are allowed to let the copilot force any landings so 4-6 sector days with 16 hour crew duty days and you doing all the flying. On the rare off day you will have safety meetings, ground training and medical and Sim training events to accomplish. The failure rate is about 50% for time on type Captains for the initial Sim screening. The medical pass rate is about 60% and the ATPL test is about 70% pass on the first go. The CAAC check is another high failure rate and then you still have the company training and Sim check and then both right and left seat line training you must be signed off on by multiple Chinese Instructors before being given a Line check. Follow on medical checks are also difficult and every 6 months once you are age 40 along with recurrent Sim checks every 6 months with 10% failure rate. The biggest fear you will have is line flying and QAR a FOQA type system where anything you do wrong is continuously recorded. Late configurations, GPWS warnings, speed brakes with certain flap settings, long and hard landings, over rotations, high airspeed or 1 dot deviations on an ILS and you will called in and punished, fined and publicly shamed as the company sends out emails to all Captains about other pilots transgressions. After a 3 year contract you will be very burned out and your health will start deteriorating all the while you still have to pass the next medical. If you think you have the mind to try being a part of the "Right Stuff" for the Chinese and make the big bucks go for it just always have an exit plan as it will most likely be required sooner than later.
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Originally Posted by WYOMINGPILOT
(Post 9946148)
I would say go for it but make sure you have an exit plan as you may need it sooner than 3-5 years. Don't leave a stable long term job to come to China. What is happening now in the aviation world can and does change rapidly. When you come to China expect 3-4 trips to accomplish all the screening and 6-9 months before you are hired and the process is only getting worse as the CAAC puts endless rounds of verifications and checks before they give your target company the green light to hire you. When you start expect about 1 year before you are checked to the line and endless hoops, checks, and you will be screened inside a glass house continuously during that period. After checked to the line expect a minimum of 6 months before you are allowed to let the copilot force any landings so 4-6 sector days with 16 hour crew duty days and you doing all the flying. On the rare off day you will have safety meetings, ground training and medical and Sim training events to accomplish. The failure rate is about 50% for time on type Captains for the initial Sim screening. The medical pass rate is about 60% and the ATPL test is about 70% pass on the first go. The CAAC check is another high failure rate and then you still have the company training and Sim check and then both right and left seat line training you must be signed off on by multiple Chinese Instructors before being given a Line check. Follow on medical checks are also difficult and every 6 months once you are age 40 along with recurrent Sim checks every 6 months with 10% failure rate. The biggest fear you will have is line flying and QAR a FOQA type system where anything you do wrong is continuously recorded. Late configurations, GPWS warnings, speed brakes with certain flap settings, long and hard landings, over rotations, high airspeed or 1 dot deviations on an ILS and you will called in and punished, fined and publicly shamed as the company sends out emails to all Captains about other pilots transgressions. After a 3 year contract you will be very burned out and your health will start deteriorating all the while you still have to pass the next medical. If you think you have the mind to try being a part of the "Right Stuff" for the Chinese and make the big bucks go for it just always have an exit plan as it will most likely be required sooner than later.
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Originally Posted by WYOMINGPILOT
(Post 9946148)
I would say go for it but make sure you have an exit plan as you may need it sooner than 3-5 years. Don't leave a stable long term job to come to China. What is happening now in the aviation world can and does change rapidly. When you come to China expect 3-4 trips to accomplish all the screening and 6-9 months before you are hired and the process is only getting worse as the CAAC puts endless rounds of verifications and checks before they give your target company the green light to hire you. When you start expect about 1 year before you are checked to the line and endless hoops, checks, and you will be screened inside a glass house continuously during that period. After checked to the line expect a minimum of 6 months before you are allowed to let the copilot force any landings so 4-6 sector days with 16 hour crew duty days and you doing all the flying. On the rare off day you will have safety meetings, ground training and medical and Sim training events to accomplish. The failure rate is about 50% for time on type Captains for the initial Sim screening. The medical pass rate is about 60% and the ATPL test is about 70% pass on the first go. The CAAC check is another high failure rate and then you still have the company training and Sim check and then both right and left seat line training you must be signed off on by multiple Chinese Instructors before being given a Line check. Follow on medical checks are also difficult and every 6 months once you are age 40 along with recurrent Sim checks every 6 months with 10% failure rate. The biggest fear you will have is line flying and QAR a FOQA type system where anything you do wrong is continuously recorded. Late configurations, GPWS warnings, speed brakes with certain flap settings, long and hard landings, over rotations, high airspeed or 1 dot deviations on an ILS and you will called in and punished, fined and publicly shamed as the company sends out emails to all Captains about other pilots transgressions. After a 3 year contract you will be very burned out and your health will start deteriorating all the while you still have to pass the next medical. If you think you have the mind to try being a part of the "Right Stuff" for the Chinese and make the big bucks go for it just always have an exit plan as it will most likely be required sooner than later.
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6 months contract
Everybody knows China pays the most money for your time. But always keep in mind that you will basically be on a 6 months contract throughout your career there. Every sim check is a possibility for one of the CAAC checkers to fail a foreigner. A lot of them are very nice and fair guys. But once in a while you will stumble on a guy who thinks, possibly correctly, that foreigners shouldn't be there and earn that much, and have better schedules. And that guy will fail you for no good reason. Yes, it happened to me, and it has happened to others after me, and it will continue to happen. It is extremely insecure.
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