BEIJING CAPITAL AIRLINES
 

Hello All,

I was looking at the new contract for Being Capital Airlines and wonder if any of you have any good data on the airline? I have been in China almost 7 years and have followed some of the different airlines over the years.

There has to be a reason why Being Capital Airlines is having to pay so much money, kinda throws up a RED Flag.

Important things are how do they treat the EXPATS
Schedules
Punishments
payment of Bonuses and OT.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,

On Final

Getting stuck on final huh?:p

Air Canada is presently offering leaves of absence and BCA through Aeropersonnel has the full court press on our A320 captains as a result. They are running screenings next month and it sounds like there will be a dozen or more takers. We're being told that the safety bonus scams are a thing of the past, everything is great etc etc. Basing in Sanya, live by the beach, what could be better? For me I have a young family and couldn't pull the trigger but I did give it more than a second thought. Honestly a little bit of "too good to be true" was holding me back. As you say, red flag.

BEIJING CAPITAL AIRLINES
 

Hello, Thanks for replies. In this game best to always plan ahead, keep your eyes open...ha.

The Sanya base is not bad and not sure, use to be out and backs most of the time.

There use to be a Chinese lady as the VP but not sure if she is still working there.

Thanks,

On Final

From friends there, the Sanya gig is probably one of the best deals going in China right now. One thing to watch out for is the bait and switch they offer of promising Sanya and then only delivering Beijing. The time delays and slow moving new joiner process is also something to watch out for. Another good A 320 option is Lucky Air in Kunming. Wish I was a bus driver as the pay there is way out stripping the current Boeing pay. Best of luck.

Beijing Capital Airlines
 

Hi Wyoming, Thanks for you reply. Any Captains currently working for Beijing Capital Airlines can share information? I wonder if they are doing mostly turns out of Sanya Base. Are there many overnights?

Any information is good.

Thanks,

On Final

MOVE THREAD-----Link to other Beijing Capital Airlines not to duplicate thread.

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...-airlines.html

As of 2 years ago the expats in Sanya were doing mostly 1 days trips with maybe 1 overnight a week. The Sanya pilots spent the night in Harbin or Shenyan, and the PEK guys spent a night in either Sanya or Urumqi.

When I was there it was one of the better gigs in China. The company treated the expats well, and the fines were not as frequent as some other airlines in China, notably Hainan Airlines. If you got fined at BCA, you probably did something blatantly wrong that you could have avoided. Fines are part of the regs.

Almost everyone I worked with is now gone for various reasons. If you are a surfer Sanya is a good deal. Also the air is clean. Other than that it is a secondary city in China. Very few expats, or expat friendly services. No western medical care. It is difficult and expensive to commute out of Sanya. You have to fly out to another city in China to connect to an international flight.

I was also wet leased out to Lucky Air for 6 months. Similar flying to BCA. Kunming is OK. Air quality is OK. More expats than Sanya, but not as good as PEK, CAN, or Shanghai.

BCA, Lucky, and Tianjin are all part of Hainan Group and all are just subsets of Hainan Airlines. They share ground staff at each others' bases. Operationally they are the smoothest operation I have ever seen in 25 years of aviation.

And the money is very, very good. At least the months when you are not med down and not getting paid. It is still China.

Beijing Capital Airlines
 

Hello USMC, thats good information, thanks much. I have seen you here on PPRUNE along time making great posts...!

For me almost 7 years in China, now on the A330. Just getting tired of flying west with time diff. Kicking my A---s. The money on the A330 is too low compare to A320 even though its tiring banging around China but its do able.

Thinking about getting on the A320, make more money while staying on the same time zone. I am looking for the next contract with the right airline and pay A320.

My info for BCA is old, 3 years ago, I am sure many things have changed. I wonder why they have to pay so much for pilots.

Thanks, Again,

On Final

They were hiring continuously while I was there, but lost pilots just as fast they as they hired them. As long as you were a real pilot with real experience, the line training wasn't difficult or as long as some other carriers in China.

Like I said, operationally the Hainan Group rocks. The only bad part of BCA was the staff they had that dealt with foreign pilots. It was basically a bunch of friends and family from the countryside.

Several of us might have stayed had they offered more time off than 6/2. They wouldn't budge off of that when I left. Will they now? Maybe the new roster options are just a carrot to get you to sign a contract with them. I don't know.

The leadership of the airline likes expats.

Offering more commuting choices and raising pay would be the trend for airlines in China to attract expat pilots, as well as improving their internal system to understand, communicate and help expat pilots if the management awares.

The past 7-10 years were the first time that China aviation inducted expats into this field. It was pain for both airlines and expat pilots to get to know each other. I should say recent years things are getting better in most of the airlines.

Though culture, language, lifestyle...in China are quite different from Western and there are many headaches in work, expats could lead a happy life if he's willing to make friends and being kind and optimistic. I believe some captains posting in this thread do know China well and deal with things well. :ok::ok::ok:

BCA
 

i am with bca in sanya, on the whole, everything is good, we have a good chinese manager who understands that the foreign pilots do have different attitudes to the chinese culture of do as you are told. The Base thing... carrot? not really, you usually get based where you want but will end up touring to other bases for a week to 10 days as they are short of pilots in xian guilin and hangzhou for international flights and haikou and sanya for internal flights so if you want to be based at any of these, come on in the water is fine. In sanya they have just started to send us to do international flying to bangkok etc and yes they are deep night flights, red eyes mofo trips, most internal flights are finished by 0100.

The hotels range from average to flea pits, haikou and xian are the worst, we are going there for 4 to 6 days at the moment which is making me rethink the situation!. if you have kids, make that your priority and don't choose sanya, beijing and guangzhou are great for international schools but they come at a hefty price, there is an international school in sanya but lots of complaints as its been hijacked by the rich chinese parents who are demanding changes more akin to chinese schools but you will have to talk to the guys with kids for that info'. My wife is a qualified uk diploma holder to teach kids up to 6 so that might be an avenue to take for the wifey at some stage
The money speaks for itself, BCA couldn't attract pilots and we are expanding very quickly so now they have upped the anty and its paying off as we have quite a few guys joining now and in the coming months, 22 first officers attempted command upgrade last month..2 passed!!!!!
Flying here is frustrating, FL226 on a 2;45 hour sector is not what i am used to.
I took 9 months to get online its a lot quicker these days,that was 3 years ago, probably 4 months now, there was always something wrong with visas licences security checks etc when i was assimilated
Life in sanya is generally good and the guys here are great, a real mixed bunch of pilots and we like to mix with the expats that are here too, they are a good bunch. cricket is played usually once a month(for the yanks thats baseball for men), we had 56 people turned up last week, BBQ beers etc which is a good time to meet lots of the expats
Health care.... hmmm, brand new hospital in haiting bay just down the road but seems to be the same bunch of medical guys using it so hong kong or guangzhou/beijing if you get hurt, once again, if you are worried about health care, don't choose sanya
Sanya is what it is, we like it but we don't have kids and we haven't had health problems... yet!
The sim for selection is a bitch
The medical check is ridiculous
The bureaucracy is... well you will find out
see you all soon

Gator
 

Thanks for a balanced overview..
Money wise BCA can't be beat:D
What about the A330 talk, is that happening gatorman"330"? Coincidence or good planning?
Regards,
D

Thanks Gatorman;
I was just starting to inquire about coming back. Living in the airport dumps at Xian or Haikhou for a week or more at a time? I think I will pass for now.

Xian you are literally on the airport perimeter fence, on the other side of the airport from the terminal. The "hotel" is at the end of a dusty dirty road several Km s long. Nothing around.

yes john, xian is the worst of all the hotels, even haikou, i am positioning there tomorrow for 4 days... a training flight to bangkok, can't believe someone is going to try and teach me to fly international routes:ugh:
To be fair life is very good here, we all now live in ban shan bandao area which is a great area right next to the international school here, if you can call it that, beers on the beach yesterday.... nice!
The new international routes have only just started and they are desperate for us to do them even though we are short of pilots in sanya so i am hoping it settles down soon and they do what they should do and that is to base new pilots where they are needed and not give them the base they want and then spend their lives touring as the guys in beijing do:mad:

The 330?? hmm, we were supposed to be getting 2 this year, one in beijing the other in hangzhou but i believe hainan airlines have thrown a spanner in the works.... they were planning to go hgh lax daily but as with all aviation dreams, factors of etops certification were never considered:ugh: i believe hainan airlines are taking the lax route off us so if the 330 comes it will be europe or internal flying
i was mixed fleet flying 320 and 330 in a previous existence but have told them i categorically do not want to fly 330, my priority is my family and i like coming home at night, not staying in flea pit hotels

hi john, originally told last week that 3 of us sanya based pilots 'were the chosen few' apparently its an honour to fly international :ugh:, we will effectively tour the bases doing the international flights, i am assured now that after more complaints from the 3 of us harping on that they have increased that number to 10, more to follow so it may not be that bad. We are still enjoying sanya and living in ban shan bandao is expensive..... its worth it, very nice apartments, great views, great pool etc, good clean beaches and only just over a mile to dadong hai
would be great to see you back here mate, need some more cricket players, even if you do swing like a girlie baseball player:D:)

Thinking hard about it. I have it really good at the moment, but it is always just a moment in time. Things will change, as will my current deal. I much prefer being an expat.

BTW, the 330's were coming in early 2010 as well.

i was told yesterday that 2 a330s are expected in july? lots of chinese captains are desperate to fly 330 but they don't want to do the international flights on 320, no money in it!!!

I thought HNA pilots got a lot of extra money for international flights? BCA is different?

For me I could care less. They will probably do BKK as a turn, no layover. A piece of concrete is a piece of concrete.

chinese guys get 160% for international flights and like the layovers but there are no layovers any more and we don't cost anything to do them but it is 5-9 days away from base which is a bitch

New thing for the sim', dual FAC failure, single engine raw data ils 20 kt x wind to minimums, apparently quite a hand full

160% so more than all of them.

sanya drought!!! if its not one thing its another. water and electricity are being turned off regularly now, wifey hasn't had water for 12 hours, they reckon another 2 weeks and we will have no water at all in the east of sanya until the end of july and thats with the luck of an early typhoon. lots of guys contemplating taking lots of leave at the moment or just getting out of there for a while, see what the company do?? gotta say, its worrying, no air con' as electric regularly gets shut off, 35 degrees and humid and can't shower:D:ugh:

Wow, Really? Is the res empty? That would suck.

yeah john, no water left, at the mo its dadonghai and along bay that are worst affected, one of our guys had no water for 4 days, think the next few weeks will see the other areas without any water :ugh:

Hows your Water Situation, That must really SuK trying to go to Work with no
Water at home etc.

not too bad at the moment but the next 2 weeks will tell i think, reservoirs are really low, water trucks are being parked around some areas for people to go with containers, we have water at the moment

It is the wet season. No rain? We already had a Cat III typhoon last month in my part of the Pacific.

A330
 

China's Capital Airlines to Lease an Indonesian A330

More, for who?

http://www.wcarn.com/news/45/45417.html

no rain at the season transition for the last 2 years now but just had a baby typhoon so the situation is much better than we thought now. lots of happy..er people

2 330s coming, one already painted etc, direct entry for 330 foreign guys which is pissing off the guys here but no chance of releasing 320 guys as we are too busy... thats a good thing!
For all you wannabeeees, yes they will hire for 330, yes they will be desperate but hainan airlines.... see advert above, its our parent company, they are about to increase their salary... substantially

having had an early mini typhoon, water levels are ok for now but another month or so, hate to say it but we need a couple more to barrel through here

Where are they planning on flying the 330? They told me they were getting 330's "next year" when I started in 2010.


Glad you got water and electricity back.

Gatorman;
I just pmailed you with my private email. I got a few questions for you. Looks like my leave will come through. I am also considering the Hainan 737 job in Shenzhen.

hi john sorry, hotmail defunked, same but @gmail.com
330 is in sanya AOG at the moment pack conduit had a fliddy and slow decompression. 330 will fly internal, doing daily beijing sanya at the mo' eventually i think 3 times a week to copenhagen, Hainan stole the hangzhou LAX route as i said before, no chance of BCA getting a 180 ETOPS cert.
The hna deal sounds good in shenzhen, hna package is very good plus you are a taxi ride away from HK MRT. Drop me an email john
regards

Beijing Capital Airlines
 

Hello,


I was looking into the A330 Capt. position possibilities at BCA but up to now no word?


Has anyone heard when they will start recruiting for the A330?


Any info would be great..!


Happy Flight,




On Final

Hi! I have question. I have heard that roster pattern 4/4 is total scam. Is it true?

you will be getting paid a lot of money to be able to take a lot of time off, the 4&4 deal is what it says but there are restrictions during the busiest time just like any crappy western airline, expect that you will have your 28 days on spread over 2 months i.e. last 2 weeks in one month then the first 2 weeks next month, at this point you will work your socks off, 40 hours a week possibly, do the math's but you will get a lot of time off, around chinese new year there is an embargo on only being able to take 2 weeks but then take advantage of being able to take 5,6, maybe 8 weeks off if you double up or you can sell back some leave, anything over 550 hours pays 200 usd an hour so there is potential to earn a lot more than the basic amount if you want

not sure as yet but the rumour is that they will take direct entry captains 330, as you will find out the chinese are paranoid about mistakes no matter how tiny and they see native english speakers as the way ahead, i don't mean english people but collectively english as their first language, the crews here have a hard time understanding english speaking captains so you can imagine what the radio work is like when they go international and everything is standardised, the next 330 is supposed to be arriving soon, i will see if i can put the email address of our recruitment manager on here, i will have to get permission first :ugh:

The Chinese don't do 100 hours/rolling 30 days. They do 100 hours in a calendar month. Working 4/4, you can work a LOT of hours in the 4 weeks on if each calendar month has 2 weeks in it.

I think most of the airlines offering this expect you to be "flexible" about when you do your sim sessions and medicals. Like, perhaps, right in the middle of your 4 weeks off.

They are paying you a bunch to work 4 weeks. They are going to squeeze every single dollar out of you.

When I was at BCA, I was 6/2. They now offer 6/3. The flying was efficient enough that you could probably work 6/3, and get well over 900 hours a year. That would be 250 hours of overtime under their current contract offer.

4/4 I don't think I would like because of my above concerns. But everyone has different priorities in life.