Hainan interview
 

Hello,

I have a DEC interview (737) coming up with Hainan. Would appreciate if anyone who has been through the selection process or has worked/is working for Hainan could shed some light on the interview/life in general working for the company, thanks!

I also have an interview coming up and would appreciate any information

Hiring and the month on/off roster

The contract choices seem very appealing. Those HR idiots in the middle east and India and most of the western hemisphere for that matter could learn something about pilot productivity when they are content.

I have no idea if the contracts are being honoured or not ?

My question is, are the salary's offered after Chinese tax has been paid ? and if so, will they supply a formal cerficate saying so?

Yes, they pay the taxes in China for you, not out of your salary.

The contracts are honored....for the most part.

There have been some notable exceptions depending on the particular equipment. Read the fine print carefully. If it looks like a loophole for them it certainly is. The Chinese will push everything to the limit.

I am interested as well dec 737 ,the contract offered by flight dec recruitment looks good specially with a famiily ,but before applying ,I'd like to have feedback from someone already inside the company,any infos are welcome

Hi there,

Still in the training phase with HNA. Here is the flowchart for the training process.

I'm at the "Emergency Training" part.

So far so good, a couple of issues here and there, Right now it's getting that infamous tax paid certificate.

For the interview itself, not much longer than 15 minutes
, much of the decision to employ you or not seems to be based on the "company simulator check".

The paperwork is what takes the longest and the medical check is very thorough (as in MRI, EEG, ECG etc...).


http://113.59.108.96/resources/image...ow%20Chart.jpg

Hi,

Has anyone managed to obtain information on Interview process, possible questions and Simulator assessment?

Anyone with information would be much appreciated. If you COULD Pm me with details.. DEC on B737NG.

Cheers
FM01:)

How was the written test? Best study material?

My interview question:
Who are you and what's your background.

The rest was a discussion in Chinese between them and my rep from GPS.

That was it...

Simulator session was challenging: wind shear, V1 cut, TCAS, fire, medical, loss of all automation (no flight director, auto thrust, autopilot) so you fly manual raw data approaches.

I'm on the 330 by the way, not sure for the 737.

For the CAAC written exam, they give you a question/answer databank of about 1000 questions of which 100 will be on the exam. Tried to get the source material instead to study from there, but the CCARs don't exist in English, or at least I couldn't find any. Some guys bought a book which is a loose translation into English of an old version of the CCARs. In the exam I found about 70 questions or so from the databank if questions. The rest were weight and balance, reading different charts, instrument displays and figure out the airplane's position etc...Some were plain wtf questions I had no idea what they were asking.

Then you have to go back to the simulator to do the official CAAC checkride to endorse the 330 on the license. Another tough, but a lot more relaxed, simulator session.

After that you can "report to the fleet" to begin the classroom stuff, getting paid at 60% salary while on training, process passport visa, foreign medical certificate, etc...

Here is their new website for direct hiring (no agency) for HNA:
HNA OVERSEAS Co. LTD

or if you prefer an agency, mine is GPS:
GPS - Global Pilot Service

"We remind you, that we do not accept any applications for any NTR (non type-rated), CCQ or fleet transfer programs, meaning you have to join a fleet, you are type-rated for and have real flying experience on."

Included in email reply from HNA

Therefore I assume as I am flying the B777 although rated on B787 I will not be eligible for 787 fleet.

Interviews and Jobs at HNA
 

Hi there,


nice to see that some life is getting into this thread, especially after it has been linked directly on the website (www.HNA-OVERSEAS.com/index/Community.aspx).


The idea is to have a transparent post, where we all can openly discuss and where the negative reported points can be taken up for improvements.


I have here an example of the JUNE Recruitment planning, which some applicants received:


Candidates arrive in PEK - 2014-06-07 / 2014-06-08:
Depending on flight availability candidates will arrive in PEK and picked up at the airport by the CROWN PLAZA Hotel Shuttle and receiving an information evenlope.
NOTE: Arrival time cannot be after 20:00 LT PEK to allow 48 hours body recovery for CAAC Medical check on Day 2.


Welcome & Introduction (PEK) - 2014-06-09 / 2014-06-09:
HNA Company Presentation, Contract & Selection Process explanation, Uniform measurments, Photo shooting for official picture use (CAAC, Immigration,…)

CAAC Medical Check (PEK) - 2014-06-10 / 2014-06-11:
CAAC Medical Check incl. 1 additional day in case of delays and required rechecks

Assessment Centre Tests (PEK) "Phase 1 - HR" 2014-06-12 / 2014-06-13:
DAY 1: Assessment Test (Psycometric, Verbal Reasoning, English, ATPL) DAY 2: Group Games, Interview
NOTE: ONLY successful candidates continue flight to "Phase 2" in HAK.

Tour: "Living in China" (PEK) - 2014-06-14 / 2014-06-14:
Visit of Accomodations in PEK to show living conditions and will be as exemple what to expect also at other bases, visit of International School, visit of International Hospital, visit of PEK Downtown (Sanlitun) from where candidates have possibility to explore PEK alone.

A BREAK CAN BE MADE HERE, AS THERE ARE TWO OPTIONS FOR THE SELECTION PROCESS... all in 1 shot or in 2 separate visits for HR and TECH part, depending on the time a candidate can make available to attend the process.


Immigration Medical Check (HAK) - 2014-07-14 / 2014-07-14:
Morning: Immigration Medical Check, lunch and visit at HNA Group HDQ (Dasha)

CAAC ATPL Test (HAK) "Phase 2 - TECH" - 2014-07-14 / 2014-07-14:
Afternoon: CAAC ATPL Test (ONLY passed candidates continue to SYX)
NOTE: 1 resit possible during next selection (were candidate will join directly at this event)

SIM Training & Preparation (SYX) - 2014-07-15 / 2014-07-16:
4 hours ground school to prepare for CAAC check and explain procedure application
4 hours company SIM training (4 candidates, 1 hr PF, 1 hr PM, 2 hrs OBS)
NOTE: This is a fully evaluated part of the selection program focusing on TRAINING & ADAPTATION, where we can see how new information are processed, learned and recalled, as well how CRM and actual flying skills of the candidate are. (ONLY successful candidates continue to the CAAC SIM Check)

CAAC SIM Check (SYX) - 2014-7-17 / 2014-07-19:
Candidates at this stage will attend the license validation CAAC SIM Check (4 hour SIM)

Returning HOME via PEK / CAN / HKG / PVG - 2014-06-21 / 2014-06-22:
Depending on flight connection candidate will be returning HOME
NOTE: The process can be split into 2 parts according to the candidates availability and travel and accommodation cost will be paid by the airline in any of both cases.


FCOM-5

Hainan Interview
 

Hallo there,

i´m in the recruitment process as well. Have done the Telephone interview so far, by the way quite easy:"your application arrived, see you next month in China."

I am looking for any informations available concerning the written ATPL test. Can anybody give an advice which preparation material will cover the written test.

Has anyone got any notes on Sim and CAAC ATPL. I would appreciate it if someone could maybe PM me. I can't work out the HSI & RDMI questions. Anyone got info or a book I can buy to explain it so I can understand.
Thanks D

ATP material
 

Anyone can share ATPL test material?

I'm heading to the PEK screening by the end of the month.

Any tips besides "not going".

I too will be there in early June, also looking for some material on the ATPL exam. Cheers guys

TIPS:
go there with an open mind, prepare your poker face at home under duress( wife children?!?). Keep your temper when faced with endless/ senseless/ stupid timeconsuming questions/procedures...
Take something else to do with you for the endless waiting periods( learn Mandarin/play scrabble, enlist in an Online University course of your choosing).
Join the club( expats, future colleagues).
Don't really know the present situation as I have only loose contact with some of my former mates but had a nice time with friendly,funny people during my stint in 2009/2012.
Good luck

ATPL notes / A330 Sim test
 

Hi Fellow Skymasters,

Does anyone happen to have the CAAC ATPL notes? If so can you please DM me directly and we can facilitate a way of me getting them....PLEEEASE!!

Also I am rated on the A320 and doing the CCQ to the A330. Does anyone know if the Sim test will be on the A320 sim or A330 sim? They say there's no such thing as a stupid question.


Mac.

I would urge everyone here to check in on the thread "Working as a Pilot in China" here at PPRuNE or AirlinePilotCentral if you haven't already and read the book "Flying Upside Down" to gain some insights on the important stuff. The sim check... written test... interview... it's participate graduate IF you dare. Read, enjoy, let it sink in. If it's still for you, then be armed with foreknowledge of all the things Hainan and China at large has in store for you.

God speed!

L.G.

For those considering the NTR 787 program I would advise some caution. On paper it looks good but Hainan is notoriously untrustworthy. The off days offered on the commuting contract may or may not be consecutive. One contract choice is 8 days off and another is 11 days off. The recruiters and agents will tell you the Lies you want to hear but don't trust them. The Off days will most likely be non-consecutive. This will most likely be a Cruise Captain job for at least 3 years. You will be paid as a Captain but never be the PIC listed on the flight dispatch (flight assignment). This makes using this flight time almost useless for follow on jobs outside of China. Almost every job application will specifically state only list the PIC as flight time when you signed for the aircraft and were listed on the flight release as the PIC. Parc and Rishworth and Korean airlines are well aware of Chinese PIC flight times. Another issue is not being able to land the aircraft unless the PIC is an Instructor. Normally the Captain (PIC) or FO will do all the takeoffs and landings unless the PIC is an Instructor so you will have lots of Cruise captain time. Hainan is notorious for 1+ year training programs so you will only receive 70% of salary for the 1st year. When flying many of the chinese pilots smoke profusely so expect the PIC and the FO to smoke non stop while you are their crusie captain getting them coffee. Things to consider. For those wanting more info. on the Chinese atp written test there is a thread explaining it in detail with links to other information sources. It may be a bit dated but not much has changed here.

HNA Interview
 

There are many people looking for good info about HNA and to date I cannot see a balanced view and any real good hard facts.

Please guys lets have some facts so that we may make our own decisions,

For example:
What happens at the interview?
What is the profile for Sim Check
Has anyone in the forum actually checked to line this year?
What is it like flying the line?
Are the rumours dated from 2012-14 still true or have times changed?

As a community dedicated to helping each other, we look forward to your help.

Thanks

Plaze 1
 

Just returned from phase 1 "Medical"

I full day going through all the stations. Blood withdrawal (4 tubes) expertly done. EKG, Both lying down and treadmill (over 50 gets treadmill), no worries. Ear, Nose, Throat, I expect they have no idea what they are looking for. Ultra sound of heart and neck, that sent me to get a pulmonary MRI. (My home cardiologist said it was unnecessary as the picture that concerned the Chinese tech was due to poor ultrasound technique and interpretation. On the other hand, good to get a pulmonary MRI since I'm over 50. (I took pictures of every page after exams). Got big time flagged for eye exam, never had a problem before, even in the military. Spent an additional two days doing a field of vision test. Again, since seeing my optomologist back home, they don't know what they are looking for nor how to administer the test properly. (Glasses on 1st time, no glasses 2nd time or 3rd time. Apparently the device has a setting to correct for your prescription, never once did they ask me for mine. Oh well....

We should hear later on this week if we pass.

During the HQ brief, they have domestic capts, they need international capts. we were told, don't be surprised if you 737 guys are moved directly to the 787. Traiining pay until complete with type ride (might have been a translation error, end of OE seems more like it, but who knows?). Cruise Capt, they want us all qualified yesterday! Sign off ASAP because they have jets parked every week for lack of capts. 30 more 787s coming starting April. Same deal with the Airbus guys, more coming... 1 new airplane every 2 weeks. Foriegn pilot recruitment was tasked with hiring 80 capts this year. As of Sept they have less than 40. They will bring you back as many times as they can to get you passed.

Sim profile, my understanding is there is no profile, it's what ever the instructor wants to throw at you. I'll pass more when I get to that stage.

I'll answer any other questions I can, it was a fast paced, hectic week.

Eye exam
 

Thanks for the info. RE the eye exam, do they check your peripheral vision n take a snapshot of your retina?

Hi Keelhaul,
It seems you took the decision to go there and from what you say they are in great need of 787 skippers.
I read they ask a minimum of 500 hours on type. I am rated but only have half of the time cause we are not flying that much, you think they would call me?
I tried their webpage but clearly says 500, and I do not want to go for the NTR program cause that will put me back on the training payroll. Any suggestion? or any direct recruitment email I could write them to? And btw, which base are you taking? Is it true they base you in europe with a commuting contract or is it all bologna?
Thanks man:ok:
LV

Go through an agent, or start filling out the HNA overseas e-application. They will get back to you.

Agent vs HNA Overseas. HNA Overseas is Hainan's in house "agent". My observation, the regular agents were more on top of things during the medical, the HNA folks seemed less experience, were distracted with regular work and keeping tabs on the progress of the other pilots. There may be other benifits with HNA down the road, I don't know. What I do know is that there are slight differences in the offered contract. Specifically one agent says $200/hr over 720hrs overtime. The HNA contract is $250/hr overtime. HNA provided the same contract to all agents to keep things the same, what the agent then offers is up to them.

If you go with an agent, make sure you know what you're signing.

Oh yea,

787 base is only Beiging, no other bases to be offered in the near future. HNA is open to the idea though.

Hey

Regarding the base they mention, in the T&Cs I've received from an agency, you can choose any of their destinations.
This is probably the carrot but how is this working in practise?

Thanks

Basing
 

If on a commuting contract, you will need to DH (ACM) out of one of their destination locations. In the USA, Seattle, Chicago, Boston, San Jose. if you live elsewhere, you will need to get your self to that location. Weather you consider it salary or not, $500 is for offsetting your travel related costs.

Either way, 11 days off means you will be traveling on your Off days, so Max in this case 9 days off. Keep in mind that you may be required to rest for a day after arriving in Beijing for work, I don't know if that is considered an Off or On day, I did't get that far in the process.

Keep in mind, Hainan said "not everything is perfect here, some things we are still working on, that's why we pay you so much money"

For me, I would still go, if I can get past the medical...

Tax Letter for Americans
 

Can anyone verify that, at HNA, a tax letter is issued to Americans for Chinese Income tax paid on the pilot's behalf? I was looking at CSA, but they don't issue a letter to Americans (not sure why...got confusing answer from recruiter). No letter means no tax credit. No tax credit means BIG $$$ to the IRS. Any info will be helpful.

Thanks

Taxes
 

I asked that question specifically. Hainan said they will provide you with a certificate detailing taxes paid to China. The financial rep wasn't at the meeting so they couldn't be specific about the tax rate, thought it might be 20% to 25% so you will still owe Uncle Sam the difference. I thought CSA was the same, to confirm you will have to talk with some one who is flying at CSA.

Keelhaul,
Are you able to go back for the next phase?

Month ON-Month OFF
 

I was working for another Chinese carrier for over 6 years and decided to leave once our base was closed. I was considering the Hainan contract for either the 2 week ON, 2 week OFF or the 1 Month ON, 1 Month OFF based on the fact that living in PEK, CAN or XIN were not an option for me and my family. Once I received their updated and 'improved' contract I began my due diligence. Since, these contracts should effectively allow for a patterned roster, I put together a spreadsheet allowing for the proposed scheduling. Additionally, since I was commuting from North America, I wanted/expected to be deadheading in business class like I did with my former company (when I wasn't operating from my base). I had other concerns with the contract, such as the very punitive nature that is renowned at Hainan and the subjectivity of the other 'payments.'

However, my biggest concern was the wording of how the schedules were going to be produced, that is; "a pilot will receive a MAXIMUM of 14 days OFF" or a "pilot will receive a MAXIMUM of 28 days OFF." I then changed the language to "a pilot will receive a MINIMUM of 14 days OFF" and "a pilot will receive a MINIMUM of 28 days OFF" per month. You can guess the response, sorry Hainan won't change the language of the contract. Continuing my diligence, I was fortunate to meet (just prior to my departure) a former Hainan pilot who had just joined our company. In our discussion, he confirmed my worst fears. He stated that for the first couple of months you may in fact get the 14 or 28 days off, then gradually they start to reduce this amount until you are somewhere between 8-10 days at home , AND on 2/3 the salary AND flying primarily domestic operations because they only need you for 50 hours per month.

I wouldn't advise working for this company but I understand everyone's needs are different. Just go with your eyes open and give up any expectation of having a real life with a real airline.

China Taxes
 

The China Income Tax rate should be at least 30%, at least it was at my other Chinese employer. There was a non taxable travel component which was added monthly to our salary. Best thing is to ask someone that has been there for over a year.

Tax Letter for Americans
 

Just to confirm, do the Chinese airlines pay the Chinese income tax on your behalf( not out of paycheck) and then issue a letter that can be used to get credit towards owed IRS income tax? I did speak with a pilot at CSA and he told me that Americans weren't issued a tax letter. When I spoke to the recruiter for CSA, they told me that CSA didn't have to pay income tax for Americans, therefore, there is no letter issued. I'm not sure how true this is, just what I was told. To confirm my information, please pass on info IF a tax letter is/is not issued to Americans at CSA and HNA. I would appreciate it.

Taxes
 

I was just told the same thing by a current CSA pilot. No certificate for USA pilots, so no tax offset,

Hello Wyomingpilot. Are you currently flying for Hainan or what you said is based in what you've heard ?
Kind regards.

Hello Kellhaul,
Do you have any idea in what Simulator they do the Screenning for NTR to the 787 ? And about the rooster ? Any idea or exemple about it ? I am currently flying 767, I already have CAAC ATPL and medical but I am not flying for a chinese airline. I am interested in HAINAN, CSA and SF Airlines. Tough decision, any tips and opinions may help !
Tks.

USA Tax Obligations
 

If I understand correctly, all Americans must declare income regardless of where they live. Perhaps that is the reason for CSA not issuing a tax letter. That said, your salary in China should be NET taxes, so a tax receipt should be made available to you through your employer.