Are you guys actually sharing sectors ? What are the commanders like? Do they let you make decisions ?

The decision making is what I am most concerned with. I will never fly on Lion Air.

Pay to fly will stop , it's an accident waiting to happen , the general public and the media will become more aware and regulators will soon ban the practice.

For those of you who have done well and moved on to other carriers, kudos to you, for those of you who are paying agents in India and have managed to scrape through your training please go get remedial training and improve your attitude!

Fly safe and don't be arrogant , there are so many other deserving people , instructors , bush pilots , commuter pilots and hard workers that are equal in every regard . You are not God's gift to aviation, you just had the financial ability to pay a middle man!

And thereby, making a mockery and a joke of this once noble profession. There used to be a time when pilots took pride in utilizing their skills and experience to fly, for which their fare paying passengers entrusted them with their lives. P2Fs are a joke and a shame to the industry.

So including the ones that went to or are going to Turkish, only about 140 people from Lion Air have gone on to take jobs at other carriers? Considering the scheme has been around for 4 odd years now that isn't a good result. I have been told around 500 people have come through on different programs and around 250 are still there.

I know that the poster is trying to say that you can move on after Lion but I don't count Cathay as moving up! Some of the other airlines I wouldn't want to work for either. As mentioned before Scoot, make you pay all over again so are you really better off

The guys all madly trying to get out from Merpati and the glorious MA60 are learning fast that no one wants them with the questionable safety record, training and useless type rating they have.

Well said dragonfly and thanks for providing the list . Clearly shows that it is non related to pay to fly pilots.

Those who do p2f , some are excellent pilots, just that they have no opportunity to be called up by an airline for whatever reason such as not being local when they are fresh out of flying school.

They took the risk despite all the naysayers and today have move on to world class airline as mention in the thread. Bear in mind that they need to pass all the sim,test and interviews before they are being offered which prove that they have the required standard.

Because they know if they did nothing, they can hang their blue license as a memento and give up their piloting dream and have to change career, burning all the cash they have paid for during CPL. There is no turning back. Getting a job today is so competitive.

Remember and I say again, they took the road less traveled and with their valuable NG hours, they call the shots now and can chose whichever airline they wish to apply.

And pilotchute, the 450 pilots in lion are not only Fo but expat captains as well. Most of the Fo are long gone and a lot are going to resign in the next few months.

P2f or non P2f, everyone has the same interest....to fly. From all sides there are good ones and bad ones. Why should we downgrade a fellow aviator just because we do not fly some big shinny jet. Move on folks....

pilotchute

Whoa! I sense some bitterness there...

Good to see there is life after Lion Air:ok:

Cathay is not moving up? Speechless.

Well if I spent 80 thousand pounds on a CPL/IR and then 50 thousand USD's on a type rating and line training at a very average airline, I would want to be in the RHS at my next airline.

Cathay for a while there only required a CPL and 250 hours to be an SO. If I had spent the sort of money mentioned above and with 1500 hours NG in my book went and worked for Cathay, I would say I dropped back a step.

I applied to Cathay and got through the interviews but have given up on them for a while now. I'm not bitter I am just saying if I had 1500 NG hours I wouldn't even have bothered applying to them at all.

Get it?

Nothing wrong with P2F.

As long as the training is of a high standard. In fact if the financial risk is on your own head pilots will be more determined.

I can't help feel some are threatened by P2F pilots.

P2F is here to stay and no amount of fear mongering is going to stop it. P2F is going to be the norm even on legacy airlines in 10 years. Training will go from being a cost centre to a profit centre for airlines. Money talks, B***sh** walks.

Every person who has the desire and ability to fly should have the chance to be an airline pilot, not just those who can get by the gatekeepers in Human Resources.

I think you need your head examined !

Nothing wrong in P2F?

If this was so great why don't airlines do this directly as opposed to going through sketchy agents ?

Good training ? Here's the thing pay2fly and good training do not go hand in hand, most of the time they just want to get you done and couldn't care less what you learn.

Go get a job the real way , go to the bush, go instruct , go pass real interviews and most of all don't feel you can buy your way through.

PIC pay2fly? You agree with that too ? It's by far one of the dumbest ideas of the 21st century .

It's on the way out , you are going to see more cadet programs , you may get carriers asking you to pay for your type rating but paid line training and employment should and will stop.

Obviously these guys have a terrible reputation amongst their pilot colleagues. Just make sure you let them know how you feel about their career decisions if you ever share a cockpit. One big reason so many pilots are afraid to cross a picket line is because nobody wants to be known as a scab for the rest of their career. Someone who will pay Lion Air 70k to sit in the cockpit and then spend a few years getting bent over by that outfit in order to get jet time quicker than those who do it the right way doesn't deserve much respect imho.

I heard that P2F pilot has been part of management team, training department for some time.. they say he brown nose all the way up to managment and they made him Captain in break record time (within 1 and half year of joining as FO).

Are we talking about the same Mr. T? Apparently, chief of training thinks this Mr.T is very good at his job..

No wonder indonesia aviation have stopped giving out license to expats..:ugh: with TOP GUN ace flying around. I heard he is not loved by the expats to. many have complain that he a S***T capt.

Chief of training thinks he going a good job.. because he is doing the job that no one wants.. glorified office boy. CHief of training dont need to come to office, and see the angry expats and indians.. he can stay at home..

Chief of training, Mr. D , and his 3 deputies, is doing it for extra money. Has the power to decide who's the capt, who's the instructors..etc..
Not even near as a safer place yet..
Stay away at all cost..over 90 jets they operate, with not enuff pilots to fly.
Time bomb is ticking..
There have been more than twice the aircraft went to stick shaker in flight!
N1 didnt react ,the speed was too slow. Luckily, the altitude still high, to recover...:ugh:

Pay to fly, pay to command, pay to instruct , pay to management ! Where can I sign up for the packages deal ?

..Might see a rape case in the future..if CAPT T... doesnt do his job...

tODAy... I heard that a Indian FO molested a flight attendant (grabbed her breast) on the way home to Taman Anggrek in Lion transport. Lucky the driver was there stop the molestation.

What i heard is that this FO see all FA as prostitues and treat them as such. I wonder what his wife think about a rape case..

the 3 Indian NG operators will not touch these P2F guys... so these kids are now in the fire with debt hanging on their heads.. :ugh::=

@ jack for your kind information 7 Indians got through assessment with jet airways and 2 joined spice in a last 1 month. So kindly get ur facts right and then post on this forum.

Cabin crew getting there breast's fondeled by the pilots, tell me something new