Low hour expats (aussies) working in Asia Question
 

Hi guys,

Just doing some research at the moment and looking for some opinions of guys who are currently doing this / have done it / anyone who knows about this stuff.

My question is regarding expat pilots in Asia. For example the pilot shortage in Indonesia I have been informed about. I have been told low hour guys like myself, with 200-300hours have gone to Indonesia successfully to become first officers on turbo props.

I have been researching this but I'm still unsure how this would plan out a career for me in the long run.

Over on the aussie forums here on pprunes theres a crap load of negativity towards cadetships such as the J* one... which are not too different from a low hour pilot going over to Indonesia and scoring a gig as a co-pilot in a turbo prop for example.

My question is this: I get a job on a turbo prop for 2 years... maybe 4 or something. I start off with for example 200 TT of which 100 is PIC. After my 2 or 4 years I will have logged co-pilot time... cool...

But where too from there? I may / may not have enough hours for my ATPL and even if I do I wont have as much PIC as someone who would've scored a first job flying a Cessna out of the left hand seat. I guess my fear is in - with this career move what's the chance that you become unappealing to airlines in the long run? What's the chance you end up as a career first-officer with no hope of going captain? Or if I went further on overseas to Europe/Middle East or even back home to Oz, what are the chances the airlines may not want to hire me at all let alone give me a chance to move up onto the left hand seat?

Not sure if this question has been done or not but I've looked through the threads here and couldn't find the information I am seeking.

Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

go back to where u belong aussie... the asians dont welcome u

duyentranvan - that was a mature helpful response from a not so professional pilot !

onezeroonethree - honestly as a low timer there are far and few jobs outside of your home country for you. Once you get some time up your sleeve then you will get the option of expat work. Even if you did land one of these low timer jobs outside of Oz, they would most likely use and abuse you so the whole thing wouldnt be worth it. My advice is to stick to your own backyard and build time there, when I got my CPL there were no jobs at all in Australia, in the end I used some money I saved and bought a C152 and started a flight school and air charter business some 3000km from home. At the time I was not alone at doing this... not that I would repeat it, as it was a hard way to get flight time running a business at a young age and all.

good luck.

hey bro im serious here... there are no jobs in asia for you... its just like the asians going to aussieland, you would have said the same thing to them too. :ugh:

perhaps you guys can try cathay pacific. they love the aussies mainly because the guy running the show up there is an aussie?

duyentranvan: http://www.playdota.com/forums/pictu...ictureid=17471

;)

I've got a few mates from asia who are here to look for jobs or came here to do their training... and run into a few during my time...

I, nor anyone else have told them "go back to asia where you belong, you aint welcome here"

but yeah, nice try. I checked up your previous posts in other threads :ok:

I like duyentranvan's reply! Well said! :ok:

Pretty straight forward. :D

Cathay Pacific operational management is run by the white and they prefer white people to black hair Asian. :ooh:

Simple clean argument. The aussies are telling the same thing to thousands of asians everyday... but its unprofessional if an asian tells this to aussies..


that reminds me of a quotation by Javed Akhtar:

Seems like this small mindedness is much too prevalent amongst western aviators.


@onezeroonethree
You don't, your consulates, embassies and your immigration officials do.

Wow how can one simple innocent question, that seemed so legitimate turn into such a pissing match by a bunch of simple minded pricks!

Come on boys and girls, prove to the world you are professional Pilots not simple minded dicks.

If anyone here can honestly say they havent been a low houred Pilot just out training wondering how to make the break in they are simply liars . We have all been here and most likely had the same thoughts this posted has had. :sad:

@itsbrokenagain
In post number three you started pissing in the diapers.

Ohhhhh jimmy .....you still are one sick bitter and twisted person aren't you!

I would hate to be you.

hey guys, im just stating the fact here and i ain't being a racist or something.. but thats the fact you aussies are doing to the rest of the world.And you guys turn up in an asian airline and start to whine about how bad the rostering guys are treating you and shi*s... If you want facts, go and have a look at the fragrant harbour threads.Nearly everyday you guys cry and whine about something.I seriously don't know why and how you aussies end up in top class airlines like cx but i am certainly sure they would perhaps be the only asian airline which will take guys in with low hours.

That's b'cos we are better pilots..

Don't think the female flight attendants would agree to that..


Any more questions?

Duyen is only a wind-up and a pretty good one at that too! :D

If I ever get down that way again I'll shout him a couple at Apocalypse....

Dying people often become childish. - Georg Buchner

I'm sorry to hear that guys.

duyentranvan -from your post history you appear to be not in your home country also!

Of course I am, and reading you ain't gonna cure that.


Its good for you, had you desired to be me... it would take out the last drop of your sweat to come anywhere closer.. stay cosy where you are.

Indonesia it seems is in a continuous pilot shortage due to not enough training schools but also the fact that locals do not really want to fly silly little turbo-props.

As far as expat hiring goes there are quite a few

Susi Air - C208B/PC-6
SMAC - CASA 212
Merpati - MA60 (but it seems possibly DHC-6 too)
Batavia - 737 Classic (rumour round the traps is they are accepting low hours with type rating
Lion Air - 737-900ER (mainly Eagle Jet P2F; seems more like a prison camp - no multi entry/exit permit with temporary residency)
Wings Air - ATR 72 (taking contract pilots with high time and recent sim checks on ATR)
Garuda - 737 Classic/NG (expansion outpacing pilot supply so taking on contract pilots)

There are others and Regional Group recently advertised for DHC-6 pilots in Indonesia also.

Yup...agreed. Nothing to do with racist.;)


Not only in Cathay Pacific. Many other airlines too!

Yes...seems to be true. :hmm: CX consider and prefer white people white low hours. It hasn't been changed for all these years,

Massey058's list is a good place to start for any low timers looking for an airline job in Indonesia. When I did my medical in Jakarta there were quite a few youngish foreign pilots doing the same ... infact, at the time, the number of foreign pilots out numbered locals at the medical centre.

And just to put things into perspective, the airline I'm with doesn't only hire low timers from Australia. We have pilots from India, Japan, France, Korea, Malaysia and New Zealand.

sounds like your talkin about susi air. Yeah maybe you're right.. they probably do take the expats with low hours.Might be worth it for the aussies...its near home.:ok:

No, I'm not taking about Susi Air. .. I'm talking about a real airline with a fleet of Boeing 737s, and multi engine turbo-prop aircraft. Other airlines in Indonesia are also starting to open up to foreign expat pilots as well.

Do you fly in this area? You don't seem to have a clue about what's going on around here.

well i believe you need to be type rated? i dont think they would take u in with low hours and non type rated. And to answer your question, no i dont fly in indonesia.But i have friends who does. :D:D

I can't speak for other airlines in Indonesia, but the one I'm with pays for our type rating but we're bonded for two years. And yes, we do have a lot of low time expat guys and girls.

Hi training wheels, I'm very much interested with what you've posted and would welcome any opportunity to fly. Times are tough and securing a flying job isn't as easy. Would you mind PM-ing me details of the airline you're currently flying with? Would be very much appreciated. :)

Mate, all the info is already posted on this thread. Refer to the list that Massey058 has posted. It's all there in black and white. :)

hear hear, well written :ok:

...
 

It must be with Garuda.
Lion will bear you with P2F scheme.
Batavia will give you 4 yrs of contract, with crapped-maintained aircraft
Try your luck, although I would've agree with duyen, if aussies (immigration, government, consulates, or whatever ) don't welcome Asians to work in their continent, why would they welcome you?
Just get your hours and go back home. Don't even think of getting upgraded.. :=

Mr.duyentranvan said:
go back to where u belong aussie... the asians dont welcome u

How do you know Mr.duyentranvan?

I can tell you that a large Indonesian airline advertised on the afap.org.au website earlier this year, looking for low time copilots for their airline and it
wasn't a Cessna Caravan job.

If Aussies weren't welcome then the airline wouldn't have advertised.
Please have a think about that one mr.duyentranvan.

Then why are so many aussies (and foreigners) employed in Asia and are still being employed now ? :confused:

If they are not welcome then why are they employed there ? :ugh:

Some of the locals might not be welcome to them but this does not stop many people wanting to work there.

What are you doing there Mr Duyentranvan (as a foreigner) ? :ugh:

Don't be such and hypocrite and maybe you should be the one to go back to where you belong (in your own nice words) :p

You say Have you had a look at the Australian forums lately (Dunnunda...). Aussie pilots whine and cry just as much in Australia. Does this now mean Aussie pilots are not even welcome in Australia ? :confused:

Just because pilots whine and cry does not mean they are not welcome there. :eek:

I have had a look at many of your past posts Duyentranvan. Whenever someone asks a genuine question on pprune you always use it as an opportunity to degrade, humiliate and insult people. Some of your replies are completely outrageous and totally unwarrented. Whats your problem mate ? Hope your not like this in real life.'

Hi 1013, welcome to Asia buddy :E

There is some good advice here, don't leave Oz to come to some third world s**thole in Asia, where if the diseases don't kill you the pollution will ( talking 'bout HKG, China ).

We are only here because they need us, a point that is lost on those who have not been walking upright for too long ;) If they had enough of their own trained up drivers I can assure you we would not be here ( that is law, not racism ).
Unlike the D/Hs that run Australia, around here they look out for their own, if a local can do the job, they can't hire a foreigner ( yes, that is what we are called )

Not going to get into a slanging match at level 3 ICAO english on here but feel free to PM me.
God luk :}

Does anyone have contact info for Merpati Nusantara Airlines? Webpage only lists e-mail address for marketing division.

Thanks in advance!

Japanam:

A person needs a bucket load of money, to leave their country for the purposes of finding a pilot job in a foreign country, especially for low time pilots.

I don't know any low time pilot that's sent a resume/c.v to an aviation company on the other side of the world and they were given a job.

You have to do your research and get on a flight and the people have to see you. That takes a lot of courage to do, as it's like playing a poker machine. Take a punt.

How do you apply for positions in an Indonesian (or any other asian co for that matter) company is it a matter of sending cvs or is it a case of show up and knock on doors? I do know things do opperate differentley in this part of the world. What kind of hours would a company opperating say a Twotter or metro require for an fo?

Knock on the door is a good thing to do in that country.
Recently I heard 23 foreigner just joint the Merpati to fly Twin Otter or MA 60 (china made turboprop). Contracted for 2 yrs, got only 1100 Aus$ a month, to gain hours. They're all low timers.

The MA60 is a 21 tonne, 56 seat turbo prop with an EFIS cockpit and an FMS. It uses PW 127 engines (same as the ATR). The first group of expats have just completed sim training for the type endorsement and now awaiting for base check and line training to commence. Not all are low timers, some have close to 1000 hours TT, some around the 250 TT mark.

As for the pay, the amount quoted above is the basic monthly salary; you also get flight pay as well as allowances when on duty. Those who are also flight instructors for the flight school are already flying and earning a decent monthly wage. But correct, most are here for the experience and not the money although the money is enough to live comfortably in Indonesia, well for me anyway.

i have over 1000 hr but FA multi time How wold they view that or do they require 50 or so + multi

Living in Indonesia
 

Well, boys and girls,if you want to be a pilot and you want to live in Indonesia or any other S.E.Asian country, you will have to put up with the millions of dumb monkeys, filthy dirty pollution, Continually being sick by the crappy, ****ty, disgusting food carts on the streets and not to mention the millions of prostitutes trying to get into your pants everyday of the week.
Well, if thats not enough, you will be expected to work for nothing as a professional pilot, like the dim-wits at Suzi Air or any other bent airline operator here in S.E.Asia.

Yeah, its just Paradise :ugh:

Latitude1

You are a grade 1 prat. I live and work with these so called monkeys and some of them are the finest people you will meet. I've never been healthier and I eat regularly off of food carts. As to the millions of prostitutes, I suspect that's the only way would could attract anyone with your attitude.