VOR-Holdings (China)
 

VOR-Holdings of China

Anyone has any experience with this contract company?

The good and the bad?

Their contracts are pretty good, not sure if the "real" contract is that good...? Since there has been so many stories of contract changes at an instant without you knowing in China and other places?

Thanks

My experience with contracts in China is that they aren't worth the paper they are printed on. The individual contractors do the best that they can in providing support up until employment but once on line you are serving at the discretion of the host airline. They'll pretty much do what they want. The contract agency can sometimes be helpful in trying to resolve disputes but there are no guarantees. Good Luck.

As a US pilot you should avoid contracting through a US company overseas. They have to issue you a 1099 and you will be on the hook for Social Security Tax/FICA by having to file a 1040 Sched C - self employed income.

Rishworth, Parc and Aeropersonnel all offer various China employment deals right now - all seem pretty standard - $13-18k a month for qualified A320 Captains who can get through all the testing and whatnot - salary, living and bonus structures vary of course.

Some pay you thru the contractor, some pay the contractor a finder fee and you are contracted directly with the company.

You should consult a qualified tax professional who deals with expat pilot issues for more info. Timing of the contract, time overseas, who you are working for, etc are all important factors that should be considered.

I was not impressed in my dealings with VOR. Snakeoil salesmen and too aggressive, calling me at home really early, etc.

PARC or another agency will probably do better for you.

If you do go with VOR, you may still get out of receiving a US 1099-MISC for income (and the associated Social Security taxes mentioned already), but that is IF they can pay the money they pay you into an offshore account. Worth asking them about.

Beware of VOR Holdings
 

Fellow Pilots,

I have close friends under contract with VOR and will offer you some good advice, try another agency...!!! They operate under several names and have a marketing agreement with "Climb to 350". Basically if you log into climb to 350, you will be filtered right into VOR, China Aviation Recruitment, a commission is paid to Climb to 350.

I can tell you, they will try to lock you up in China and you will not be able to work for another carrier without VOR for 1 year, maybe more. They will go behind your back and make side deals with the company and tell them what they want to hear that will effect your contract with that carrier. They will make sure the company does not give you a release letter.

I know of a pilot that left a Chinese Airline and Ted, VOR, China Aiation Recruitment took him to arbitration for leaving without notice. Now they are hunting down the pilot to try and collect 54,000 USD in penalties for legal fees and other charges.

You are WARNED to stay away from this poor agency...!!

Good Luck,

On Final

from VOR holding
 

is this offer a true or fake...????:{


Dear Captains,

If you have experience on Boeing aircraft, here is an opportunity of a lifetime!

Air China Cargo is offering Boeing Captains the opportunity to upgrade to the B747-400 aircraft.
Air China Cargo will pay for your type rating and pay you at the same time.
A five year contract gives you job security as well as the opportunity to make up to US$250,000 per year.

For details on the job requirements and how to apply, reply to this email for a quick response: [email protected]


VOR Holdings is 100% focused on China. We have Chinese support personnel to help you with your routine or non-routine needs throughout your assignment in China.
For additional information, visit Pilot Jobs in China - VOR Holdings - For a Safe Landing in China or contact us at [email protected]
If you are not interested in receiving these opportunities, please click here to remove your email address from our mailing list. http://lists.serverhost.net/open.php...17&N=19951&F=H

than it is better to apply to EMIRATES for FO (same position P2) then upgrade after so maaaaaannnnnyyyyyyyyyy:{ years as PIC, what the diff...(as ACC likes you)..

If you want to work in China on a commuting contract then try Xiamen Airlines. They have a B-737NG contract offering a 6/2 schedule.

I don't know how much is real, but it looks like Vorholding is offering a commuting possibility with China Cargo! Anybody out there willing to help desperate layoff gispys?thanks

i applied for a dec 747
 

Devine Wind said: "They fail to inform everyone that it is NOT a PIC position.
You have no choice but to start as a P2 (ACC calls it Junior Captain) and your salary will only be 11-12.000 USD a month"

So after all you are forced to fly from the RHS? How do you get out of this trap. Are you protected in any way by the contract or the law. Someone had the guts to go and see? How do u log the time? PIC of FO?
PM please if you have pertinent information.
Thanks in advance.

these f@#$%ers ought be locked up!! Nowhere in their advertising do they state that these are "training" programs!!
Jesus H, aren't there any honest people out there anymore?? These guys are headed for a big shock one day and God help 'em if they piss the wrong people off:mad::mad:

max rent 4000 RMB??? in an expat apartment? Your having a laugh right?

Anybody from the first interview screening willing to help?thanks

Bullshovick's reply
 

Hey buddy!
Glad to see a friendly response like yours. Though you did lash out a bit, I'm not quite licking my wounds. As you can see on my post, the "training program" comment was not made by me, it was made by VOR holdings. I would love nothing more than to go fly the 747 as a Captain right off the bat. It seems, according to VOR, that that is not the case and you are not in fact the PIC on the flight.
If you have more information on this job, or just clarification, it would be appreciated. I would certainly like to know if this gig is as advertised because my initial feeling from VOR holdings response to my query is that it is not.
Thanks so much for your positive and eco-friendly replies!
Bo

Clondnine
 

Appreciate the response. Honestly, I was just responding to what VOR has advertised on Climbto350.com so frequently (3+ ads a day!). The ad seriously leads you to believe that you are being hired into the left seat of the 747-400 as a pic (come on, the the ads say "transition to the 747, PICs required"). Then, when asked, the truth was told and that is what I posted. I applied and almost left a good contract job that was stable until I asked the right questions with the right research and found out the God's honest truth about the thing. As stated in the email, if you are already a 744 Cpt and want to come over then it is an honest deal. My only beef with VOR is that they kind of lie to you. Perhaps I am assuming the worst having been around this industry so long, but not being forthcoming is also being dishonest.
Other than that, I would love to go to China. Seems like a more westernized area. The idea of cheap rent and Outback Steakhouses galore is wonderful. I would like nothing more than to make good money whilst flying a widebody and eating food I am accustomed to.
If there is a better contract company to go through, please let me/us know as I am quite sure that this would be a good contract under more honest circumstances.

Bo

It's quite simple really. Never, and I mean never, leave a good job to go to one that is making a promise of Captain/PIC in some period of time. It rarely ever pans out that the promise is kept. Only airlines with established seniority systems can ensure an upgrade, but even then they can't make a promise as to the timeframe. These contract jobs are especially bad at keeping promises. Just look at all the guys who have bailed from Eva, China Airlines, Qatar, etc over the years. At least Vietnam and Korean are up front about expat F.O.s never getting an upgrade.





Typhoonpilot

cloudnine....
errrr obviously i dont work in Japan.....i'm working at my second airline in China. Anyway you said the MAX rent was 4000 RMB. I know for a fact that 4000 RMB will not get you a nice apartment in an ex-pat area. I think in many areas even the higher rents you quoted on your second post are still lower than you can expect to pay if you want to stay in genuine ex-pat standard accommodation. For me i stay in a normal not very nice mostly local Chinese complex, but thats my choice, i just wanted to say if anyone comes here and expects to get an apartment in a complex as you described with swimming pools etc for 4000 RMB they will get a nasty shock as your figure is way off the mark.

My Halfpenny's worth
 

I aggree with Clondnine. If you thought a NTR pilot is going to jump into a PIC job on the 744 in any airline, I think you are mistaken. And if being a Junior Captain for a few months put you off applying, then you have missed a great oportunity as it seems almost all the NTR slots are taken.

Junior captains get a package worth $15000/mo, and PIC's get $16200/mo. This is NOT a F/O or Cruise Captain job, you fly from the LHS and sighn the release, and the logbook. Log it as PIC if it makes you feel any better. Life in Beijing is "active" to say the least, and very affordable.

I can not understand the venom expressed towards VOR holdings, I have found them very pleasant and the company easy to deal with. If they were short with one or two applicants it is probably because of overwork as a result of the 3000 or so applicants they had for the NTR job.

Finally, if any US citizen thinks they can dodge taxes by using an offshore hiring company, think again. The IRS will find you and remove large sums from your bank account, it is not worth it. US Citizens are taxed on their worldwide income no matter the source.

Jumb0driver... U working for TR???

By the sounds of that, he IS TR..:eek:

Yes, JotaJota, I am. And i have no complaints

YEP... :}

Well said. Both of you. I think VRSCE2 presented VOR with his 1500 hours PIC on the B737-800 (flt Sim 2004 edition) and expected to get a NTR PIC position on the 744. No doubt VOR laughed him out of the office, which is why he is so bitter.

whinging lefties.....
 

Well said jumb0driver. At last someone with a ball(or two). i have been reading this thread now for a while, and as clondnine said, where are the current employees complaining eh? Well, if they are not doing it here on PPRUNE, then they are not doing it at all. Jumb0driver seems to be a happy, tax compliant employee of an expanding, enjoyable airline that seems to pay handsomely. Shame all you other guys mis read this contract from VOR/Cathay/Parc etc. But then again, since you(Vr....et el) are low time and inexperienced on a 'light twin' according to jumb0driver, it would be unfair to expect more from you really. When I was a boy i played with childish things, now that I am a man, .......I fly a widebody!!!

please, oh please, tell me that last line was a wind up, Shannon "boy"??:*

you like that eh?!

its a quote from an early 2nd century philosopher. obviously the 2nd half has been changed to suit the 'mood'.

it goes,

"When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways".

Amazing
 

This is getting a bit ridiculous (as always). Perhaps some people just didnt see where it obviously stated this was for a first officer position. It is right there in the ad! How could someone possibly misinterpret this!

AIR CHINA CARGO B747-400 TRANSITION CAPTAINS

*Open to current Boeing (single aisle and dual aisle) captains.
*Air China Cargo will pay for your B747-400 type rating and pay you at the same time!

VOR Holdings is NOW accepting applications from Boeing Experienced Captains who would like to Transition to the B747-400 aircraft with Air China Cargo. Not only does this 5 year contract give you job security, you also have the opportunity to make up to US$250,000 per year depend on which leave option you choose (28 days or 45 days leave per year). This is a golden opportunity for B737 NG, B757 and B767 Captains!
Print stating "for first officer position" is invisible unless you have 15,000 hours total flying time.

What I know
 

This guys are saying that China is Cheap? it all depends of where and how you live!

Just look in google and you will find out.

Big city in China you ae looking at 10K CNY to live (2 bedroom, cable, internet hot water, heat and A/C in a decent apartment complex where people do not spit around you) Leaving expenses... food and drinks anywhere from as in any big city NYC-Paris-Moscow to 5 times cheaper.
Kids is where you going to suffer (read pay)

I would go with a company that you can take to court at home (in China the law is more of a joke than at home)

DUDE!
 

Easy with the chinglish!

Exactly use google! and google MAP! and may be some cityweekend and Beijinger and may be not insulting people. (usually people who insult are doing it because they do not have any other recourse)

BTW those "compounds" are not close to town unless you do not mind living "Saudi Style" housing, like you can spend 2 years in Beijing and not notice.

Anyway the one is going to kill you is your kids schooling as I said.
BTW you can find a studio like for about 4-6K CNY downtown but you HAVE to look HARD!

Who is this Clon D 9!
 

Is this guy a troll?

Dongzhimen to Terminal 3 15minutes ride (so 30 minutes max) on the Airport Express!

Yes any gated comunity that I have to take a car to go anywhere is a "saudi like" unless you are one of THOSE people that like to live in a place that you might get lost because the are all the same houses. I think that walk, bike and public transport (and taxi is not one) is the way to go, but that is not the thread (Portland over Dallas any day as an example)

PLease do not listen to this TROLL (not an insult, a fact now) the schooling is like a college tuition in the USA, you could go local and there are some good local schools (you will probably will have to bribe some people but that is "standard issue" in China)

Over all IF you family and you can hacked it is not a bad deal for a few years you could go to a "gated comunity" and you family would think they are in the USA or you could mingle downtown, there are options IN TH BIG CITIES. If you go posted to 3 tier city MOST of you will not hack it. oh one more think OMMMMMMM Patience breath and relax onece you are in China most everything is out of your hands if you try to control it you will freak out.
For a NEW Cap I think is a hell of a deal for an old Cap so so.

I think I put it very clear I am done with this thread & troll.

The problem with VOR holdings and this contract is that the way it is paid as an independent contractor vs an expat employee of an expat company. That leaves US citizens on the hook for FICA, it has little to do with off shore 'hiding' of income.

No matter who you work for you will have to file chinese and us tax forms, but a qualified accountant can explain the nuances of being a self employed contractor who gets a very hefty 1099 vs filing a standard 1040 with offshore salary paid by an offshore company who already pays a substantial chinese tax bill on your behalf...THAT IS A KEY DIFFERENCE.

Ratherbehunting hit the nail right on the head... I have been working overseas for the past 5 years and have only worked with foreign contracting agencies for that exact reason. I don't hide my money from the US Gov't, all my money gets wire transferred into my US bank account.. The only difference is that I don't have to pay any taxes on it because I get my money wired from an overseas bank into my US bank and I meet the Expat requirements. If you go with VOR, and if they do pay you as a contractor, that $15000 per month will be like $9000 after you pay taxes to the US gov't using the 1099, the reason VOR does it that way is because it saves them the burden of having to hire you as a full time pilot.

Better off finding a contracting agency outside the US that offers the same deal. This way you get the full $15000 and don't have to worry about a 1099 and just file the standard 2555 expat form instead.

VOR Worst Agency In China..!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Clondnine = Vor Holdings
 

CLONDNINE IS VOR HOLDINGS. IT IS IN HIS BEST INTERESTS TO ATTEMPT TO SQUASH ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT ACC OR PILOT
RECRUITMENT IN CHINA.

Below is an extract from one of his "recruitment" posts:

"From reading all these posts, it seems to me like you guys should all be joining Air China Cargo. Nice roster, good days off in a row(once we do 80 hrs, easily done within about 18 days), great salary and allowances. Beijing is a nice friendly place to live. This is the easiest job I have ever had. So far, after almost four years, I have yet to see a downside"

Never known a pilot not to bitch about something in four years!

To me, it looks like a BJ rental advertisement disguised as a thread about VOR Holdings ! :E

This agency of Ted's
 

I will be going elsewhere to apply other than through VOR. These guys should be putting themselves out of business soon anyway due to the way that we have seen them talk to pilots. The industry might be having a tough time, but not the time to pick and feed on your fellow man.

Worst agency..!
 

Wow, thanks for the heads up on this VOR dude. I was considering them but followed up my research with talking to some others who have dealt with this VOR. There are alternatives to getting on in China. Thanks

there might be some dudes from September screening already in ... any good intel? thanks

ACC? :confused: