You know you're on the Subcontinent when....
 

Having had great joy and lot of laugh reading the tread: 'You know you're in Africa when...' and knowing that rules are broken or/and ignored on the subcontinent as well, I'll take the chance of redicule by starting the tread: 'You know you're on the Subcontinent when....' so ladies and gentlemen, pls post your experiences .

F

when ATC want to:

1. read, verbatum, the Indian AIP to you ..... on the area frequency when you give your initial position report

2. has no hesitation giving multible instructions whilst you are co-ordinating their last set of instructions with Dacka - on VHF 2 - whist you are transiting the 25 NM of Dacka airspace. You realise its going to be one of those nights. Even worse; try climbing out from Dacka via Kolkata and you'll know what I mean

3. bust your b@lls for not answering their first, and only, call when you have been trying to raise them for the last 20 minutes on the only two frequencies listed, for that FIR, on the Jepp chart

4. insist on giving you their re-route, that so happens to coincide with your actual flight plan - then its given to you again through every subsequent FIR up until you past the two god damned way points they keep prattling on about.

5. ask for your aircraft registration mark, on initial contact - somehow they believe or read everything on the SITA FLT PLN strip but the rego

6. when you have to listen to a Jet Airways Captain lodge a verbal complaint, for 30 minutes, over the FIR, for being held down by 2000 feet and then being asked to reduce speed by 10 kts for seperation - now that was better than listening to Hancock's Half Hour.

7. always want to know your estimate for your exit point at your entry point (initial call).......like your transiting the whole country through at least five FIRs - guess you gotta keep an accurate record for that revenue.

8. writing your ID number and signing your name in a 2" thick leather bound ledger at the crew entry immigration desk

9. having your overflight permit number questioned



Hope this kicks it off for you fhegner

Ahh yes, the ledger at Immigration. It's like something out of Charles Dickens!

.........when you have to produce your passport at your hotel to receive a letter to take to an office where you produce said letter and go from desk to desk to desk (yes, three) in order to obtain five bottles of Indian Fosters as your allowance for three days stay. (In Ahmedabad)

..... when the place is full of signs like :

1. When you smell the **** descending through 13000...
2. When you are told you are #58 for landing and you can talk your way up to #10.
3. When you have to wait for the rw to open for 30 min after the class I NOTAM posted time.
4. When you use 2 tons to wait for parking space.
5. When you fly at MSA for 50 nm (fifty not 25) supposedly under radar control after a rw change.
6. When main rw is closed for maintenance, even if the wx is below minima for the secondary.
7. When they take the number plate of the taxi you get on at arrivals.
8. When ATC doesn't have a clue how many track miles you have to landing.
10.When security sprays your shaving foam in your flight bag. By mistake, of course.
11. When you are stuck in traffic because somebody abandoned an old A310 frame on a major crossroads.
12. When you need to use a spray (the onboard issue type) to kill the mossies in the crew bus at 1 am.
13. When you can smell the stale clothes of same bus driver who has slept on board same bus since he got hired to drive it.
14. When you eat charcoal tablets every time you have a meal - just in case.
15. When you see customs officers holding hands like schoolgirls.
:mad:
I'll come back to this post tomorrow with another 15 clues, if the mods don't delete it
:mad:
P.S. When your CP flies there only couple a times a year and on back-to-back flights but sends you there month after month on 4 day layovers.

1.You request a weather deviation on HF, and by the time ATC get back to you the weather is now behind.
2.Reduce to minimum clean speed at the boundary.
3.Tractors are used on the apron

do the needful
 

I am almost conversant with the phrase "to do the needful"

but when our ops manager sent an email starting like this I was really puzzled (and still am):

"Captains, please not for needful"

the email was in relation to our airport passes which have not been issued yet (we only requested them 3.5 months ago), so the subject line of the email read "Pilot for passes"

:confused:

Two that come to mind as I sit here nodding my head at the above-

1. Roj. Why is every RT call acknowledged with roj. Everytime we step outside supposed ICAO radio calls or criteria, they bust our balls, but they, ATC, are taught a new word on day 1 of training, i.e., roj.
2. I'm sick of my fillings falling out everytime we roll down the runway on take-off!!

More to come!!!

When ATC asks for "total on board through security!". As opposed to what? Total that jumped over the fence?

Goat Liner
Probably !!
:}:D

Only in India can you see people camping beside the main runway at a major airport between the hold short line and the runway edge (CCU where the other day one of the campers was taking a **** on the edge of the taxiway, totally ignorant of the 100 people staring at him!)

"Total on board through security" so he can fill it in his 6" leather bound ledger!!! And then pull out some carbon paper, (I didn't think this stuff still existed, but maybe just in India), and copy it down in triplicate. Then go and get it stamped six times by six different people. On the way out the door and back into the building while trying to find the six different people to give the six same stamps, getting held up by an army/ policeman interrogating his ID card, promising he'll have the bribe ready for him later, just a bit busy right now.

When you call "ready/established" and they ask if you are "fully Ready/Fully established" (no i'm only half ready, wadda you think!!!)

After being given long and complicated re routing instructions, which you take 12 calls to read back, you ask for direct to the next waypoint, and all you get is "Approved"

Idiots:ugh:

.....when you get a 300 ml bottle of beer and they try to bill you for "a pint" (bar upstairs at Santa Cruz terminal)

Well we Brits have ourselves to blame for some of this. The multiple copies, with carbon paper, was intended to make sure there were many cross checks and thus avoid corruption, that system worked very well until about 1947.

On ATC, remember the person you talk to, especially on HF, is a radio operator, not a controller and he works under the same 15Watt bulb that is universal throughout India, in a dingy office with flies and a very slow ceiling fan with equipment that dates back many decades and has been kept running only because of the TLC and devotion of a few dedicated engineers who get paid less than a cup of Starbucks coffee for a days work and have to put up with torrential downpours of rain that cause them severe problems but, as always, there is no money left in the budget to fix it! Guess why!

The radio Operator will take down your request, or his sidekick will and it will be passed to the Assistant Controller who will, when he gets a chance, pass it to the Controller, the Controller will then make his decision and it will be passed back down the chain. No point at all in trying to discuss anything with the Radio Operator, they have no authority. No place on earth better to see demarcation at work than India, and yes, we taught them that too as a way to make more people self sufficient through employment, wicked colonials that we were!

India charges the same dollar rates for ATC as anywhere else but each dollar has to stretch a whole lot further. Look at Indian railways for an example of thousands of people gainfully employed and supporting families when just a few degrees of automation would throw large numbers out on the streets, unemployed and starving, India doesn't have a very good welfare record.

Non of the above goes to excuse the rampant corruption in India but until that can be stamped out then we have to live with what they offer. I got very irritated when overflying India with 15 minutes separation due 'no radar' but just try cutting a corner or two and you would soon be told that you were "4.3 miles left of the centreline" the military radar works very well but they didn't, (then), use it to control civil traffic.

I suppose my point is that, as the end user, there is no point at all in getting cross with the HF radio Operator or the 'controllers' on non radar sectors, sorry, I have gone on a bit!:)

parabellum

If you are a Brit then how come they let you into Australia?

It is called a sub-class 410 temporary residents visa for retirees, (over 55), valid ten years, (recently upped from four) and allows unlimited work. Best one could do over 45, max age for immigration unless filthy rich, (or on a boat!).
This sub-class visa no longer available. Replaced by a 405 visa which requires oodles of dosh both to get initially and subsequently to renew.

Still hope for PR/citizinship one day. No plans to ever leave, it is just too nice for that!.:)

A few month ago my frankness able me to enter the depature terminal II at the Indira Gandhi airport, 7 hours prior to check-in (max 2 hours allowed and hardly enough when you concider the normal chaos at the X-ray machines at check-in counter) the alternative was outdoor in the 44 C temperature or the 32 C visitor socalled 'lounge' with entrace fee: $ 1 ( what the choolies make in a day) and the place was stuffed NFW!

3-4 hours went by, had found a less noisy cozy corner. Recharging my thinkpad and even manage to use the wi-fi (just need your indian airtel mobile number - the first thing to acquire when arrive!). Nice new cool marble to sit on and the floorcleaning-walla - now with machine (!) - nicly avoided me with a big smile!
Suddenly two very serious looking gentelmen in jeans t-**** and a huge Motorola stood in front of me. When was my flight wanna see e-ticket. Passport visa aso: The the black book came out....who was the guard who let me in...? (i'd choosen the oldest they never really check anything, bad eyesight even when wearing classes model Gandhi the Elder, lucky he was now of duty') .... every frincking data was handwritten pace 4th grade.

"Mr.....This is very serious offence!"

****, see myself 50 or more bucks poorer. Eventually they ask my to stay put, wich of course i did. Soon ie 50 mins later, two very uniformed top-brass turned up. Same story, this time I noticed that HIS black book was twice the size...at least 100x2 bucks I thought....scheisse.

I was about to ask if they accepted Visa/master card, when suddenly a lotta staccato talk sounded from their mobiles... some kalebalic somewhere ells. Saved by the bell...was escorted to the exit and pointet toward the 'lounge' where I due to a little social enginering got in for free.

Never a dull moment on the Subcontinent....nice... Keeps one awake!

in the car en route to the hotel ...
 

driver needs to brake rather sharply...I instinctively look back to see if the traffic behind us will be able to stop...motorcycle guy is minding his own bussiness and proceeds to slam into the rear of our car and lands his body on our trunk...luckily he is wearing a helmet and so he is only shaken, not hurt...driver gets out and they agree to pull over...instead, the motorbike takes off...driver asks us if he may chase him down (and bypass our hotel)...affirmative...and so we end up in a high speed pursuit dodging traffic and flying over the overpass until we catch up with the fugitive who is licking his sores at the side of the road...driver gets out, snatches the ignition keys from the bike and takes us to our hotel...
felt kinda bad for the biker...

Being India he probably had a spare set of keys in his pocket or could obtain one within five minutes from the hundreds of roadside repair shops!:)

snatches the ignition keys from the bike and takes us to our hotel...:ok::ok::}:}

Roooj= indian named roger

Customs officer on way out= Why you spend so much in India, crew only allowed 600 rupees a day....! What??? Well i guess they dont like people spending money in their country!:ugh:

No smoking in public, big No No, but its ok to take a crap and a piss in public!

Never question anyone in uniform!:=

But all said and done, i always look foward to an exciting trip to india, its truely magical of a place.

magical india
 

Dear Rage,

I dont want to sound sarcastic and I always try to keep an open mind and be optimistic and positive but I have been living in india for over one year now and I am still racking my brain to find anything possitive to say about this country...so far I have come up with 1. the money is good and 2. the cost of living is low...3. it gives me some empirical knowledge about how my ancestors used to live 800 years ago or so in europe...
The people are friendly enough in general but at the same time pushy and often cunniving and scheming...
doesnt sound very positive ofcorse....so pls Rage let me know what you think is great about india...again this is not meant sarcastically...I really want to know...thanks

classicart,
when your ancestors in europe were running around c**k in hand, stone in the other, chasing rabbits 5000 years ago, there was The Indus & Nile Valley
civillisations. Today, the reality is a reversal of fortunes.
If anything, you may learn from a foreign exposure, is that nothing is for ever, and that humility is a virtue you may want to consider.

darn I knew I was going to step on somebody's toes with this post
sorry to have hurt your feelings rdr
enjoy singapore

no problem classicart, consider spending some time in Rajasthan, the forts and palaces there rival the European rennassaince era. also, Himachal Pradesh on the foothills of the Himalayas.

India
 

After that long flight, sitting on the Hot seat inside the Washroom of the Hotel Room. Ones eyes veer towards the Shower, which, for some reason is too close to the seat. And also it is not long enough to reach even ones Shoulder for a bath.

After some interrogation regarding why the Shower was "Not Standard", the slightly embarrassed and amused answer came ,
"Sir, that is to wash yourself after you are done with your business on the seat". :O

Let me know if there's any other place where you can find this mechanism.

yes these butt showers can be found almost anywhere in south and south east asia...not sure about places further north...
sometimes it is not the hose and shower contraption but just a bucket and a scoop...
actually this is far more hygienic then the way we go about this detail in the west with rolls and rolls of paper...nothing beats a good wash...

when you get to save fuel by flying shorter and Direct routes for not having RNav Approval :rolleyes:

classicart ji...

As rdr wrote, there were the Indus and Harappa cultures on the subcontinent 7000 years ago and they still are.... I at least feel it vividly, whenever I visit the place.

Try to bargain for a coulpe of bananas and then mingle with plp on the market, go for a haircut or - even better - a shave with knife, in one of the small shop reached only tru a narrow passage. Or attending one of the wild hindi festival where whole towns explode in fireworks (sometime the whole shop goes: whoum!) and colored water and lights...awesome. And compared to europeans/western, the plp in general are much easier going with a mellower approach.....

And then - even the tigers are fewer nowadays - India still have a rather impressive wildlife considering. The mighty Himalayas, beaches, plains, jungles, diversity en masse.

classicart, think you need some weeks staying with a indian family, preferable in a remote mountain village.

cheers

3. it gives me some empirical knowledge about how my ancestors used to live 800 years ago or so in europe...

800 years? Try less than 100 years. If you are from Eastern or Southern Europe then even less. Europe of early 20th century would be considered a 3rd world country today.

Don't worry Old man Europe only grows it's GDP about 1% during a boom year. India averaged 9% for several years and even in this global economy will grow 6.5%. The GDP per capita convergence is very rapid and will exceed Europe in 30 years. When will your European Union become one country, seems like you guys are always bickering and fighting (2 biggest wars of the 20th century was between Euro's). Read this article, all of Europe is loaded with external debt, (UK is 408% of GDP!):
The World's Biggest Debtor Nations - Slideshows - CNBC.com

Dear fhegner

I am sure India looks wonderful and is very exciting to the occasional visitor who can depart again after a few weeks or even the next day after an airline layover.

I have however lived here in a small dusty, dirty mining town in the south since july last year and am very ready to leave and never come back.

Haircuts? almost every month I go to my small barber shop (30 rupees) and have my hair cut. I'm sorry but when he touches my cheeks with his filthy hands I cringe or I see the roaches crawling in the cracks of the wall or the grime dripping off his counter let alone his razor!

But let me not continue on this negative path. As i said before the money is good and the people are friendly. Nature is beautiful. Ofcorse nature is beautiful everywhere and anyway beauty is highly subjective.
As I am writing this, in my neighbors garden behind my house, a small travelling band is singing and beating their drums (like they do every full moon it seems)...divali is over and after 2 weeks of incessant firecrackers and loud explosions that could rival Baghdad or Kabul, I get good nights sleep again. This afternoon I am going to my Sikh friends temple for the celebrations of their 1st guru...
This morning my boss rode his lamborghini or maserati or even his rolls royce to the office 2 kms away getting stuck in potholes or behind an ox cart...spider man, like somebody called him because his extremities are so crippled that he "walks" on all four like a spider, shuffles along in the dust and **** on the side of the road...

I'm sorry I have lived in Indonesia, Thailand and Laos plus a bunch of developed countries, but in my opinion India steels first price in being a complete f**k up as a country. Bridges collapsing, fuel depots ablaze with no ability to stop the fire, a bureaucracy that can fry your brain to a sizzle and people toiling away with no dignity or prospect for a better life. Corruption is so rampant that it, along with the afore mentioned bureaucracy, swallows up 90% of all human endeavour. Nothing gets done. And if something does get done it gets done half assed. I have dealt with it for over a year now. It was difficult in the beginning and it still is difficult.
I am living right in the thick of it guys not in a swanky layover hotel in Delhi or Bombay with escursions to the colorful countryside.

So my friends pls don't take my experiences into acount and keep coming to india for a holiday, if you must...but remember that a society can be judged by the way it treats its weakest (somebody smarter than me said that once) I have seen how the weak are treated here: like **** by the side of the road, literally

Enjoy the tigers

big oil,

I'm not talking about money man...or riches or GDP or stuff like that.
I am talking about the general condition of the human beings who have to live in a particular place. As I said before i have lived in many countries but only here in india do i see tremendous suffering that the average millions have to endure day in and day out...illiteracy, poor infrastucture, health services etc...now if this was a poor country then that would be understandable, but india is not poor. It has enormous riches and educated people (unlike e.g. cambodia) so to me there is no excuse for having such abominable circumstances.

Look we all have our history and stuff to be proud about at various times in the past:
The italians had michelangelo or marco polo or the roman civilisation
The greeks plato and the golden age of city states
The guatemalans have the ancient Maya civilisation
The french had the revolution which did away with bloodsuckers at the top
The russians were first in space
The americans were first on the moon
The english had...mmm...football
The germans had...mmm...sausages and beer
The dutch have cheese, the belgians chocolate
The Icelanders the first parliament
and so on

But all that doesn't really matter. What does matter is how a country is run and how it treats its people now and what their immediate future looks like. What level of dignity they can have. How healthy they are and educated and most of all the level of control of their own individual destiny. Most people live in virtual slavery because their salaries are so low they can not afford to complain or demand changes.

So I am an advocate for an Indian revolution to do away with corrupt politicians and industrialists. Go back to where Ghandi ji had to leave off.

Wow I guess I am definately in trouble now...

Sad when some people here cant even have a laugh at the absurdity in their own backyards!

Just proves to me they are still untraveled and small minded, just wait until they go live in a developed country, I would love to see their posts to a thread like this, it would be a scream..... dont worry boys I would join in with the pokes and prods at the strangeness of the developed world, as I am not sensitive and have a sense of humor.

Well India's per capita GDP is only $2900 (or $1000 in currency exchange terms), so when you say it's a rich country, that's a false statement, it's rich in pockets but with 800 million peasants, it's not going to industrialize overnight. Also it may come as a shocker to you, but income disparity is actually much lower in India than the U.S. or China. (As measured by the GINI index)
I think India has a bright future, literacy rates went from 12% in 1947 (wonderful job those Brit's did) to 75% now. India will achieve 95% literacy in 10-15 years. Life expectancy in India is 70 years (CIA world factbook). In Cambodia it's 62.1 years. I trust their analysis more than your statements.
What makes India "look" worse than other 3rd world countries is it's higher population density. The Indian government failed it's people and adopted socialism right when the population was growing fastest, hence the mess today. However, the Indian people are very entrepreneurial and since the reforms of 1991, India is progressing very well. BTW, I have pictures of New York City from early 1900's and also of European cities, they are not a very pretty picture either.

"I said before i have lived in many countries but only here in india do i see tremendous suffering"
I have been in many countries too (over 20), India is poor no doubt, and the per capita GDP numbers show that. I have seen tremondous suffering everywhere. I also have an in depth knowledge of history.
I actually think there is a lot more hope and upward mobility in India than other 3rd world countries, it's really quite evident that it's the 2nd fastest growing economy in the world. Insult it all you can now, because I think in 20 years you wont' have that priviledge. Infant mortality and life expectancy are much better in India than other countries of the same per capita GDP (just look up the CIA world factbook).
The Indian private will make it a 1st world country, not the lethargic socialists. Seems to me rather than badmouthing them, I would be supportive of the tremendous change and Industrial growth happening in India and take joy in the fact that hundreds of millions are being pulled out of poverty. Their future is truly very bright.

you know classicart, i fully agree with your points in the last post. it does go to show a reluctance by the nation as a whole to address issues.




Edited to delete foul language.

Duck
Moderator

thanks for your cuncurrance rdr and I am sure that itsbrokenagain will forgive the 4 letter words that were directed to him/her...because in fact he is right, this thread was put up here to have a bit of a laugh about the absurdities in this subcontinent and he too is dreaming about a return to civilisation...inshallah...

so in a discussion with my neighbor the other day, the (only) supermarket in town comes up..."oh you mean the one opposite the courthouse" ... no no, he says "the one courthouse opposite..."

very good big oil
 

very good big oil