@ Dani
Not true, you have the advantage of quick response through propwash when advancing the power levers and flat pitch on the prop when in idle. The ATR is certified for 45 knots xwind landing. Most jets for 25...

postman23 - before the flight simmers get all moist.....

....while the ATR can land in a 45 kt x wind.......it applies to a dry runway which is clearly not the case here.

Farrell

True Farell, just wanted to point out the higher controllability in a turbo. Thanks though :).

My theory developed while flying in this neck of the woods, is that a thunderstorm coupled with a 15 kt. crosswind caused the water to stay on the runway, greatly reducing the braking action, which was never reported.Generally twice round the hold and the storm passed, the wind changed and the runway drained naturally.

Looking at picture 1 on post #33 it certainly 'appears' that 2 fire tenders on the port side are involved in the accident!

You are right. But if you put your props to low pitch for braking you expose a huge disk into the wind. Big exposition means big resistance. If the wind doesn't come from the direction you want, you suddenly loose directional control.

Of course you have to reduce propeller resistance and ad forward thrust, but as I said, you have to do the right thing, otherwise you loose control.

Dani

Got that today in the mail
Date: 04 AUG 2009
Time: ca 14:30
Type: ATR-72-212A
Operator: Bangkok Airways
Registration: HS-PGL
C/n / msn: 670
First flight: 2001
Engines: 2
Crew: Fatalities: 1 / Occupants: 4
Passengers: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 0
Total: Fatalities: 1 / Occupants: 72
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: Koh Samui Airport (USM) (Thailand)
Phase: Landing
Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: Krabi Airport (KBV)
Destination airport: Koh Samui Airport (USM)
Flightnumber: 266
A Bangkok Airways ATR-72 passenger plane was substantially damaged when it skidded off the runway at Koh Samui. The airplane collided with the airport control tower building. METAR about the time of the accident (07:30 UTC): VTSM 040700Z 29015KT 9000 FEW020TCU SCT120 BKN300 31/25 Q1007 A2974 TCU-NW= [Wind 290 degrees at 15 knots; few clouds at 2,000 ft; scattered clouds at 12,000 ft; broken clouds at 30,000 ft; Temperature 31 deg C; dew point 25 deg C.; 1007 MB; Towering CB to the Northwest]

Sources:
» Bangkok Post
» Bangkok Airways


looks like the pilot is dead.:(

Going back to the picture in Post 27, it looks like the VOR is possibly even closer to the runway than the buildings that the aircraft unfortunately hit :confused:

How silly to place the VOR close to the runway!!!!

Not sure if this belongs here or in jet blast...Audio is in Thai.

YouTube - Ongeluk op Koh Samui 2009

Yes... the old tower..
 

..became the fire-station. Cheers bm

Reversers
 

I agree absolutely. Reverse or even Beta on most turboprops can bite very hard. If you try to use it asymetrically and then come across a patch of standing water, where you suddenly loose tyre grip, you can get a very nasty surprise. Similiarly, rear mounted jets in reverse are known for merrily pulling you off the runway when you start aquaplaning, as was suggested earlier in this thread.

Regards.

Crosswind Limits
 

The ATR72 has a lower max crosswind component than the 42. For the 72 the limit is 35 kts on a dry runway (width equal to or greater than 30m), and if the runway is less than 30m wide, the dry limit becomes 25 kts. They are good to handle in crosswinds but can be unforgiving in the wet with high crosswind components. The longer fuselage of the 72 coupled with strong crosswind components requires high vigilance.

A video of a recent event in Indonesia I believe demonstrated the above concepts with a turbo-prop runway excursion to the right followed by #2 engine prop-strike and blades coming loose at high RPM and many feet pounding the tarmac. On Youtube.

Further to OutOfRunways post
 

QUOTE from Samuijack on ThaiVisa.com
I witnessed this tragic accident and was listening on my airband radio.

Two airbus aircraft took off on runway 35 in short succession, at the same time as the ATR72 reported downwind for runway 35 and asked for a wind check. The tower informed him the wind as 300/15kts. The pilot reported turning base and was given the wind as 290/18kts and cleared to land. At this time it began to rain heavily and I was interested to see the landing. The pilot seemed to make a textbook landing and continued down the centerline of the runway ,slowing down, to a point apposite the terminal building (maybe 500 meters) when it seemed he applied the brakes and the plane turned 90 degrees left (as if the right hand brakes failed) colliding head on into the old tower building.
UNQUOTE

Width?
 

During the discussion of the previous crash at Phuket, concerns were raised that the clearances either side of the runway were not to the correct standards.

Does the same concern apply here?

It is a good job that the aircraft didn't swerve to the right and go into the passenger terminal which is opposite the old ATC tower.
However I feel that there may be a small water ditch on the terminal side.
It must have been very horrifying to waiting passengers as they were sitting in the lounge chairs close to the runway.

We will have to wait for the official enquiry which one would hope is not a cover up like the Phuket one, but it seem like samuijack has added some very valuable information.
The co-pilots version of events will perhaps corrabate that.
Personally I have always found PG to be a good and safe airline.

Reverse not selected?
 

In the video linked in post #50 it looks to me that the right propeller blades are not in the reverse thrust position (0:10s in the video). If that is the case, would that suggest reverse was not effected in this propeller? Or maybe the a/c veered off at very low ground speed?

That might take some time - The reports that the F/O suffered a broken leg only are unfortunately quite inaccurate. He is in a critical condition in a Bangkok hospital after being medivaced up yesterday.

Any news on the condition of the FO ?
Is he OK now ? Hope so.

Will be forever before Thai DCA release even a preliminary report.
Anyone heard anything as to the cause?