Kingfisher sinking like the Titanic
 

Dubai Aerospace Enterprise acquired three Kingfisher Airlines A330-200s delivered this year in a sale/leaseback transaction....BRAVO :D

Last month they couldn't even pay there employees on time...:sad:where is all the Mallya money everyone keep talking about:confused:? Its all smoking mirrows. No rupees in bank by the 7TH....yeaaa..you will see those planes fly allright:oh:.

They fired a capt...then they try to re-hire the same Capt. back after a week......The numbers are coming in...People are leaving, including Indian Capt's....Sit back relax and enjoy the ride:ok:.

"hehehe" indeed.


I hope you'll pardon me if I say I don't think this is funny. Seeing a rich playboy getting his comeuppance is one thing - when only he is affected. His company, however, consists of real people with real problems and dreams. I've been in a similar situation and it's not fun. :* For their sake I hope it turns around somehow, even if they're a competitor.

The term is "smoke and mirrors" ...

Amen to that. The only people who gloat about this kind of news are those who have not lived through it once or twice. (Or thrice or more in some cases) Some seem to think that if just one airline in India would fail all the rest would be on wine and roses. If the airline industry in the US is any indication, there will always be someone with more ego and money than brains who will take a look and think they can start an airline and fill the supposed void left in the marketplace by a failure. This is exactly the kind of time when that happens too. Lots of surplus aircraft that can be had cheap, and lots of desperate unemployed airline people on the street. If any airline does not make it you can bet that there will be one or two that try to start. Hell, the Deccan guy was making rumblings in the press 2 weeks ago that he might like to get back in the game. Instead of getting giddy over rumors of someones problems lets hope for a general improvement in the whole economy of the world. In a good economy there is MORE than enough buisness in India for all of the players, and maybe even a few more.

Sky Jet

Jet also gave its salary a day late .. it was due to a bank holiday on the day before..KF in trouble but so is every body else ..:ugh: I just hope no-one sinks .dont want see any one jobless including people i dont like... KF management is bad but the next door guy is just marginally better

Many of us have been through several downturns elsewhere and it is no fun at all. An airline that has to shut down or layoff affects the lives of many individuals. Some of these individuals do not have the luxury of being able to go elsewhere and have to thus face severe hardships. Just ask the guys at the legacy carriers in the U.S. who for many years never thought their jobs and livelihood would be in danger.

As far as payroll Spicejet is still as always EARLY on the pay:ok::D
I got paid sometime in the past 48 hrs.

Kingfisher, you're an idiot to gloat at others misfortune. I hope you get your comeuppance for being such a pr**k.

Kingfisher, the hehehe was not nice.
But keep writing, seems you have good sources, as one saying says: lucky are those who are prepared

Kingfisher A320
 

Kingfisher 320..

As Rotorhead1026 said..feel for the people who r there in KFA ..with lots of dreams...

I feel really pity for your near and dears..your will spoil. everyone.where ever you go..plz..change your attitude..if you dont like a company just leave it..dont try to keep throwing ****....i read all ur messages ..you are gonna settle in a new job it seems..concentrate in that instead of ..xxxx..the same old..xxxx_____:mad:

Kingfisher320, the 'hehehe' is in poor taste. I'm sure we've all been through tough times within the organizations we've worked for. Having someone make a mockery of the difficulties sure pinches somewhere. Not being over-sensitive on the issue but some compassion might be a good thing. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be in those shoes.

Salary delayed in Kingfisher for first time..

Due to

Bank Holiday 30 sep
festival 1 oct
national Holiday 2 oct
WORKING FRIDAY 3 Oct Too much load on bank staff due to holidays etc
Sat 4
Sun 5
Salary paid Sixth...

As explained to my friend in the company

I'm sure 320 regrets that unfortunate quote. It seems like he/she has been treated unfairly/poorly by KF but dude, you need to look beyond your air conditioned house, car and cockpit and realise the hard work and toiling ground and other support staff endure with uncertain futures and few alternatives to employment within and outside of the industry.

Plenty of people who live paycheck to paycheck and depend on this airline's employment to support themselves and their families. Like a significant portion of the industry I too have suffered through a bankruptcy and I tell you my friend it is not pretty.

good luck with your future employer(s).

most of the quality staff will jump to middle east airlines...same goes for crew...

It strikes me that in addition to a massive fall off in local traffic demand (affecting all local airlines) there is a severe currency issue too. KFA has ordered so many aircraft, all of which required pre delivery payments in USD. Then they have to pay the leases and maintenance coverage on that fleet, again all in USD.

Maybe they should have waited for the international services to start, establish, and produce some cash (USD), before comitting to so many large aircraft.

All the "red" tails lining up outside the factory is not good for anyone and certainly no cause to gloat or joke.

The government must relax some of the local tax rules to enable KFA and Jet to work out a solution. For their part, KFA and Jet have to re-organise themselves and fast. The banks will be very scared now. This is no time for waiting, delaying or dare I say, egos.

Good luck

Is it true the Kingfisher owner does not have a strong aviation background and was 'conned' by John Leahy the Airbus conartist to order all the Airbus aircraft including the executive jet. How long will it be before the A380 order is cancelled.

Yaeh!I got info from my friends salary for october are delaying????How many days????Hwo nows!!!Re-hiring captans back!!!???I dont think so!!Still mooore lay-offs are expecting!Titanik is sinking very sure!!:{

donot jump in to dark sea
 

i think with sale of 330"s more cash flow will be in kingfisher.
its so easy for kingfisher to get cash flow in to this venture.
any way no point getting big a/c when there are no passengers.

well kingfisher320 jumped for reasons not clear(suffocated, strangled, kicked?)
may be kicked looking at his acts.
give him time to breath.
his emotions are but natural.

he should have jumped to push his ship to save the airline,and jobs.
matter of time when the things improve with fuel price and passengers.

Kingfisher defaults on aircraft lease payment
 

Looks like Kingfisher will lose some more aircraft :ugh:

Kingfisher defaults on aircraft lease payment- Airlines / Aviation-Transportation-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

"The official, however, admitted that Kingfisher had some disputes with GECAS on the terms of return of the aircraft and accused the US company of being “unreasonable.” Kingfisher Airlines declined to give details of the dispute on the ground that it was before the court. “GE treats its business and customer discussions with high confidentiality and is unable to disclose any details,” a GECAS spokesperson said."
It looks like the guys from GECAS have to start learning business the indian way.

The dispute appears to be over the penalty clause for returning the A/c earlier than the originally planned lease period,due excess capacity now.
The lease company just wants its pound of flesh,and couldnt be bothered about the global downturn.
This is just the kind of attitude which has led to the present global economic crisis in the first place.

In what sense? It started with the government forcing banks to loan money to bad risks (and was propelled by a lot of greed and stupidity by all hands downline).

Nobody forced Mallya to take those jets. If he signed an agreement to pay a penalty for an early return, he should pay it. Period. He's got the money. NOT PAYING UP is at the heart of this global financial "issue" - albeit mostly by people who don't have the resources to do so. Ol' Vijay has the resources. That stated, with friends in government he might get away with this - but he'll pay a price later.

[Followup - the last blog I read said this is a straight repo case, but I don't know for sure]

:mad: off a leasing company is foolish, really. As long as they have other "good" customers you'll get nothing but terrible terms for years and be at a competitive disadvantage. My old company actually dissed BOEING and took it in the shorts bigtime.

Mallya had better start minding the store. If he already is, he better step aside and get somebody who knows the job. THAT'S at the heart of KINGFISHER'S problems! Good luck to the employees, though - I hope this gets resolved satisfactorily - somehow. :)

This situation for the airlines, started with the price of fuel going thru the roof.That was something VJ or Goyal or anyone else could not have anticipated when they leased the A/C.
Aiming to deliver a world class product,when the only other local offering is Air India(and creating new jobs) is a commendable entrepenural endeavor.
A rigid stand based on ink on paper,and removed from emerging ground realities is something lease companies/financial institutions could do well to reconsider.
Chartiy is not expected,but if they expect to reap the rewards when the aviation industry booms,they should also consider a drop in the profits to allow the goose that lays the golden eggs to survive.

LSV, sorry, but my heart doesn't bleed for these "entrepreneurs". Regardless of the circumstances, whether it be good or bad times, if you do business with that country or those people you will get burned. It happens all the time and has done so for as long as I can remember.

It doesn't matter whether it is Government backed or private enterprise, you will get shafted. Better to make sure that any contract is under jurisdiction of a country outside India, but even then you will have to fight for your rights.

GECAS are not virgins in this game and you can rest assured that they will have water tight contracts in place, but will still have to fight to get their money or aircraft back. The Government will make it as difficult as possible but will not be able to stop justice being served.

The oil price and financial conditions have put many out of business in recent times, so why should any sentiment be awarded to these people?

Mallya just fired the team principal and the chief technical officer of his F1 team.. Now the good Dr will be the fulltime head of his F1 team while his airline can't pay its bills on time :ooh:

No fuel for KF ???
 

Quote:

---

Bangalore: Kingfisher Airlines will now have to pay upfront to buy aviation turbine fuel from oil companies to operate its regular scheduled flights.This follows the oil companies insisting on the new payment method, ‘cash & carry’ for the airline as it has failed to clear its dues.

---

An airline official told Business Line that even though some of the oil companies had threatened to stop supply of aviation turbine fuel to Kingfisher Airlines from today onwards, its operations remain unaffected and that it was sticking to all its schedules.
While oil industry sources maintained that the airline owes over Rs 1,000 crore in dues to the oil companies, the official who did not wish to be named, said it was only half of that amount. ATF constitutes about 50 per cent of the total operational cost of an airline.
The official said that the airline will abide by the directives of the Government with regard to settling of ATF dues with the oil companies. He said the airline was currently holding talks with Government officials on the issue of dues to oil companies.
Sources in the oil industry said that with Kingfisher Airlines agreeing to the ‘cash & carry’ mode, oil marketing companies will not carry out any immediate action against the airline, though they will continue to seek ways to get the dues from the airline.
The official from the airline pointed out that they have received a letter from the oil marketing companies (OMCs) asking for payment of interest on outstanding dues and bank guarantee. “A joint meeting of all stakeholders had been facilitated by the Government on October 22, 2008 where the representatives of the OMCs, airline chiefs and the Minister for Civil Aviation and the Minister for Petroleum and Natural Gas were present too. The minutes of this meeting do not make any reference to any of these two points (interest & bank guarantee) made by the OMCs in their latest letter, nor is there any record of this ever having been discussed or agreed to at that meeting. We have, therefore, taken this up with the Government and we will fully abide by any directions that the Government may give in this regard.”
Sources in the oil industry said that Jet Airways, Kingfisher Airlines and the National Aviation Company of India owe nearly Rs 4,000 crore in dues to the OMCs for supply of aviation turbine fuel.
The Government had earlier allowed a credit of 60 days and later extended it by another 30 days in October, 2008 after some of the airlines had expressed their inability to retain their existing staff because of soaring ATF prices at the time leading to huge losses for these airlines.
On October 22, 2008, the airlines were allowed to pay the total outstanding dues of Rs 1,500 crore in six monthly instalments by March 31, 2009. The OMCs had also agreed to revise ATF prices every fortnight instead of every month to pass on the benefit of falling ATF prices to the airlines

Insecure
 

No one knows what is going inside Kingfisher.
Everyone including the flight crew and ground support staff are feeling very insecure about their jobs.
Just hoping the airline continous and its operations gets more streamlined.

People promoted and company downsized.
Typical posturing before selling out.

Refer:Kingfisher Airlines rejigs management; elevates 21 officials -India Business-Business-The Times of India

I'd like to meet the joker or jokers who are planning to buy into an airline like KF.....it would be an idiotic move to buy an airline run by an idiot...:ok:

I think that there would be a bigger (or similar) idiot like mallya......he brought air deccan:eek:..... Who on earth does that to himself.....:ugh:

Kingfisher 320 you are a miserable specimin of humanity. Gloating at others misfortune is a sign of weakness and ignorance. One day, when you are working for a company in trouble, I hope you remember how you laughed at others who find themselves in the unhappy situation you are in.
Perhaps you would have the decency to alter the title of your miserable thread?

I would give Mallya,90 days,tops 180 to either sell out(god knows to who),and/or declare bankruptcy.Typical reminder of a certain East West Airlines back in mid 90's and Damania Airways(same time).BOTH premium carriers of their times and both had had similar troubles and dues(such as ATF etc) just before closure!
Best part was that 3 days before ALL ops ceased,not a soul (even in managment)had even the slightest inkling of the doom that lay ahead.And even the then owners(a bunch of mafia goons and another,a master of shutdown) would come out with regular press appearances and fashion shows etc,claiming that all was well,whilst actually ALL WAS IN THE WELL!
VJM seems to be heading down the same exact cobbled but well trod pathway.....
He is after all just a buisnessman,and what do they do when buisness gets bad? Close the buisness....:(
Let the good times roll....!

Couldn't agree with you more.......:ok:

Maybe now he'll get a hair cut:ok:

i don't think he'll have money left for a hair cut! :ok:

Gradual expansion is the key......
regds
MEL

Maybe he'll have to GIVE haircuts...!!!
After his airline goes down the cellar.Taking his alcohol buisness AND alcoholic friends down with him.Surely wont have any money left for a haircut.And to think he was trying to become another Richard Branson.Wish his father was alive......may god bless his soul...:(

cuts baldies
 

Maybe he'll have to GIVE haircuts...!!!
After his airline goes down the cellar.

this VJM gave job to many.
but most at top have no hair ...saving day to day cost.
so VJM saves 50 rs for every body at top, each hair cut.
thats the price of one bottle of beer.
VJM will sell alcohal all arround the world,but
CUT some baldies to see airline some where...
not parked at the remotest location as dues are not paid....
same location of a/c"s as it was in 1990 with damania/east west .
i respect VJM for opening so much jobs...but his choices..
still some time, but now
good luck to all
and VJM

KFA
 

some good posts here, and some of you guys seem to know 'VJM' guess some of you known him well or have seen his VJM crest? He is a pompous ass.

Started as a budget airline then morphed into full service at budget fares, then bought Air Deccan foolishly, huge accumulated losses with all the mindless expansion and huge personal expenses. All his personal jets bills are also being paid for by KFA no doubt.

VJM is clearly going to drag a lot of people down when the airline goes belly up. Sad. He will most probably get away having stashed away his money and assets in private trusts like the Golden Eagle Trust in Switzerland!

KFA - Finances
 

It seems Vijay Mallya (VM) has taken on huge debt to fulfill his expansion plans. His Rs. 6900 crore debt story is as follows:
(a) Investment holding company of United Breweries Holdings (UBHL) has been used 81% of it stake in United Spirits (USL) as collateral to raise money for loss making Kingfisher Airlines.
(b) 27.8% of VM’s stake in UBHL has been used as collateral for loans for various purposes including KingFisher Airlines.
(c) USL has also pledged 17.2% of its shares to acquire Shaw Wallace and Whyte and Macay.
(d) Kingfisher Airlines has also used corporate guarantee to fund acquisition of Deccan Aviation.
(e) The pledges and corporate guarantees account for 44% of Uinted Spirits, VM’s flagship company.
According to VM’s statements, it seems that he is the only person with logic and that nobody should fear as these guarantees and pledges are top-up securities. I think the investors should think twice before investing in his companies because with share prices falling, VM maybe asked to give more top-up securities. Also, do we still know the complete story? I doubt it. For instance, what are the credit obligations of Kingfisher Airlines. At least, I know that he owes money to Pratt & Whitney, Rs. 1000 crores to oil companies and over Rs. 200 crores to Airport Authority of India. One also needs to find out if he is paying the vendors of his various companies in time.
Whenever you extend yourself beyond your means, you will end up into trouble. To get out of trouble you will start manipulating something or the other leading to corporate fraud. Once you have almost most of your assets on the line, then the temptation to do wrong also increases.
Fortunately for VM and USL stockholders, the oil prices came down substantially and improved the cash flows of Kingfisher Airlines. Also, VM used his influence to get certain benefits which eased the pressure on VM’s cash flows.
You know in such situations, the corporate honchos could be transferring money from one firm to another as inter-corporate loans. I feel that the interest of shareholders of companies from where funds are being transferred are also put at risk. I don’t know much about the regulations related to intercorporate loans but this is something that the government should look into.
I have stated in one of my posts that newspapers, especially business newspapers, have the obligation to its readers to analyze a particular issue a little bit in more detail and ask intelligent questions. Newspapers like The Economic Times was going ga ga over all these foreign acquisitions by Tatas, UB and others without asking where the money was going to come from. They have the ability to do indepth analysis but don’t. Similarly, all these newspapers have been going crazy about reporting the various new ventures and retail formats of Biyani without asking where the money is going to come from and also what happened to the ventures and retail formats announced earlier. I have been raising this question for quite sometime on my blog. Even in Satyam’s case, journalists should have asked where the money is coming from to purchase such a large land bank but nobody did?
We have heard the phrase, “Think before you leap.” Well, this is very appropriate if you are thinking of investing in Vijay Mallya’s ventures as of right now. And if I was running a business newspaper or its editor, I would keep an eye on Vijay Mallya’s company and maybe even launch a serious investigation to find out the financial situation of all his companies.
Avinash Narula

I think that when it ends it would not be pretty for KF & Mallya...

I am being told that Heineken NV (which holds 38% of UB group, Mallya 37.5%) have taken all their money from KFA back and Mallya has pumped in his personal money in the airline... And thats the reason they were unable to pay some of their dues on time...:uhoh:


Just hope that the airlines does well and stays afloat for the sake of hundreds of people working there...