stork if you think my dad was overbearing you must've been one shabby dude. and yes the lingayen incident was brought about by the unpaved taxi way. and i never had to get out of the one. reports have been submitted and yes the taxi way did have fod which at that time was covered by grass. so before you go thrashing the reputation of the screaming eagle check your facts.

as of now the investigation for the cotobato incident is still on going. and i being the captain take full responsibility for whatever decision the company or authorities may deem neccesary. the screaming eagle never intervened. and if he did... as a dad woudnt you? i pity your children (if you do have kids)

you can always get in touch with me and i'll face you like a man and not destroy a good mans image thru the doings of his kids.

if you relish and delight in the misery of other pilots again i pity you. are you sure your in the right proffesion?

get in touch and we will talk (0920)9181340

are you that perfect?...... i dont think so

and speaking about experience... where did that get you.... away from your loved ones perhaps.... couldnt take the defeat and go back to work to live and fight another day..... then maybe the ALPAP of legends would still have fangs

Parsifal
 

What if the dogs have harness strapped on their mouth? what if proclaiming such statements lead to presumption that you're somebody sharp?.... oh no Parsifal, you dont really know PAL if you're not there. OR, if you are there, then you must be one of those who only agrees because you have low time , low experience , no enough bars to bark your way out in case subdued.

learn one more thing, dont beg. This will show how weak your personality is.

Dont think that we are people without friends, though our motives to go out is more personal, we made it a point to share the facts we have seen. BUT, no one was ever interested on how Our Safety departments work, or Standard auditing is being done in this part of the world. Do you want to know about our fuel policy?

Going back will not make a difference young man, it will not.

BUT, make your BEST offer. Somebody might be interested to what you're about to say.

P.S. have you ever heard of the tagalog word "miron"?


Cheers!!!!

we did not skid off the runway.....
we were on landing roll runway 28 when tower advised us to make 180 and expedite vacating and taxi back to the ramp due aircraft orbiting on finals 28. so upon checking my speed (20kts and deccelerating) i decided to commence with the 180 turn since the rwy width was in accordance to the airbus standard of 30mtrs min. and 40 degrees before the completion of turn the nose wheel fell of the edge of the rwy.

investigation by the company and all concerned authorities is still on going.

poor judgement? (apparently)
experience? we learn
my fault? DEFINITELY IM THE FREAKIN CAPT!

and to cheer up the nay sayers ill even post the verdict

i take full responsibility for what happened.

so that all you may know

god speed and may you never have an incident lest you be the one to be the unlucky

Ian,

You've been brave and I am proud that you have expressed your responsibility.

Im sure you're off sched at the moment, but saying this Isnt to make you feel bad or to add up to the stirs around you.

This I believed is the right moment for you to reflect, to go back to the time when it happened. Where did I go wrong? What could have I done to prevent such incident? What can i share to my colleagues, so that such will not occur a second time?
There's plenty of question in your mind, Im sure. Use this time, and at the end it will not only be you who will benefit, but those around you as well.

All the best!!!
Cessna

it takes a lot of guts to accept one's fault, no excuses, no buts...
i wish you all the best capt.ian...Godbless

we were on landing roll runway 28 when tower advised us to make 180 and expedite vacating and taxi back to the ramp due aircraft orbiting on finals 28. so upon checking my speed (20kts and deccelerating) i decided to commence with the 180 turn since the rwy width was in accordance to the airbus standard of 30mtrs min. and 40 degrees before the completion of turn the nose wheel fell of the edge of the rwy.

Hi Ian,

I admire your courage and humility to admit your mistake and face the consequences. Let's all be grateful that nobody got hurt.

Having said that, I hope you don't mind me asking about this experience in order to make the most out of the situation and turn the outcome into something positive. If we know exactly what happened, what the conditions were and what you were thinking, I am hoping all those who read this thread might learn something and apply it in the way we fly.

In particular, I would like to ask you at what groundspeed exactly did you commence the turn? The FCTM states "...establish a 25o divergence from the runway axis (using the ND or PFD) with a maximum ground speed of 10 kts.". You only mentioned "20 knots and decelerating" but did not say exactly what speed.

Thanks in advance for shedding some light regarding this matter.

st. ex
i started my turn @ 4kts. wx was cavok with 250/5 wind reported.

if its one thing i learned from this experience is that never jeopardize your aircraft even if the tower tells you to expedite. i was thinking that since the aircraft orbiting on finals was already telling tower that he was approaching min. fuel and assessing my situation at that time. i deemed it best to execute the 180 at the runway, since all parameters were ok. and to all of you who fly the domestic route we all know that the 180 turn is an everyday part of life. but to make it clear i never did the maneouver thinking that i would be jeoperdizing the safety of the crew and pax.

and for the record no pax were shaken as reported. they were even smiling having their pics taken at the nose wheel.:ugh:

Ike
 

Acceptance of one's mistakes makes for a better person. Reflect on it, make sure it doesn't happen again .. and move on. This experience becomes part of your treasure chest which we all call experience..Believe me, it will make you a much better pilot and person at that..I should know, most of the "best" have been through some sort of incident. Relax ka lang, accept whatever comes your way,,and get back to flying with a renewed sense of responsibility and outlook. Remember, numerous lives are in our hands, let's give them back a safe flight..

Acceptance of one's mistakes makes for a better person. Reflect on it, make sure it doesn't happen again .. and move on. This experience becomes part of your treasure chest which we all call experience..Believe me, it will make you a much better pilot and person at that..I should know, most of the "best" have been through some sort of incident. Relax ka lang, accept whatever comes your way,,and get back to flying with a renewed sense of responsibility and outlook. Remember, numerous lives are in our hands, let's give them back a safe flight..


thank you very much sir! words cannot express the way i value the things that you have just said. safe journeys sir and hope to see you soon.

A Brave Warrior
 

Ian,

I do not know you personally and not even your Dad, but what you have just shown can make anyone proud of you.

You have just shown your "Bosses" what is "Command Responsibility" which should have stopped from them at the beginning but didn't have the "balls" to do it.

Your attitude bespeak of a brave warrior with the courage to face any adversaries. I am sure that you will end up as the winner.

You are a Professional Pilot better than anyone.

"Daplis lang ito at kailangan mong magpagaling". This will be a special part of your "Laurels" when you grow old flying.




My Salute!!!

Hi Ian,

I am a 747 Captain and have been flying for 30 years. I have no association with PAL. But upon reading this post I commend you on your courage and wish to tell you that all of us have made mistakes some bigger than others, and that your attitude toward this incident is admirable and that I am sure you will be a better and safer Captain following your internal reflection of this matter. Additionally you will have an understanding of the emotional aspect and will in the future be able to understand the feelings of others.

So amigo hang in there and all will be well as the investigation is only there to improve safety, training and SOP policy. It is not designed to be a witch hunt with a burning at the stake. Btw I would be proud of you if you were my son.

Cheers, :D

Wooblah.

SE junior,

you are brave to come on this thread and tell us your side of the story, however stupidity also accompanies braveness. And you are mo stupid to write anything about what has happened considering there is an investigation looming. Anything you write on this thread can bite you in the ass later.

What... Skyhawker.... no applogy? No offenses? You are such a d...., one minute you are comparing PAL and CP on their A320 accident record and then the next you are kissing the ass of the pilot that had that accident. You make me laugh!!! I'm sure you will become a Captain soon, especially with that SIPSIP attitude. Most of us have a brown nose coz we were born with one... yours is just especially brown!!!! NO OFFENSE

to: capt wooblah and skyhawker thanks for the kind words

to: planestupid, im not stupid enough to get into the details of the incident which could affect the investigation. the things i stated are the generic details. those of which people in our profession normally talk about on a day to day basis. aside from having a screaming eagle to guide my wings the other half that brought me into this world happens to be a lawyer. but thanks for the concern. i really appreciate it. and to set the record straight its an incident not an accident

Work for the best
 

Skyhawker and Planestupid,

let bygones be bygones, just let it go. Aside from Ian, almost all of us are hiding behind our Pprune callsigns, not that people from PAL doesnt know who cessna really is. But the point is, aside from rumour network, we are here at least to contribute our sound ideas in prevention of such Incidents or even accidents from happening again.

It saddens me to see and read news about Philippine airplanes flown by Filipino pilots going outside the runway. I still believed that I have good friends back home, and it fears me knowing that it might be a friend who was at one point in danger of losing their lives, not to mention hundred of passengers whom i might have some affiliation.

In my present outfit, Safety reports are regularly submitted ranging from unstabilized approaches, RA's, disruptive Passengers, Go arounds, Miscommunication etc. And this reports are released to all the pilots via the company email addresses, for all of us to read and understand. In this way, It gives us added situational awareness of those peculiar procedures to a specific airport.
And if you're new to a destination, you can phone up Safety dept and ask for latest copies of this Safety reports for that Airport.
But, of course Safety doesnt provide the Names of pilots involved on the safety reports. We dont have need for it.

doggone
 

no offense.. just provoking.


hi, ike. i remember you from the F-50 days. i know you are a self-made man. and your dad, what i know is that he brought about the PAL pilots retirement fund and sent some of our pilots to the posh ayala alabang village during the ALPAP of yore. about the screaming thing... i have no clue.

have a nice day, dude!

320 incidents
 

the two incident/accident with pal happened with two very experienced and old captains in command with very young junior first officers. Tacloban - flight instructor captain positively took the controls on finals from a newly released fo to continue the approach, overran. Butuan - old and "siga" captain vocally overuling fo's decision and callouts to make a go around, again overran. 320 damaged beyond repair. FO's NOT taking over were both an issue during the investigation. why should it go to this level? both happened i believe due to poor CRM and culture (macho culture as past threads has been noting about the company) which still poses a real threat to the company.

just wanted to add this info because the cotabato incident is not much as compared to these two incidents/accidents. gooday to all.

ps. scoring such incidents against one another is so sad...

what matters
 

does it matter what type of airplane is involved?
accident or an incident is not our liking but it happens for some reasons.
pls do not count, God forbids, you may be next!
why not try to write something that will benefit us professionally?
G O D BLESS!

How will the Organization know that there is a problem, if no one will bark? Do you rightfully accept that the problem is You? oh no Parsifal, you dont really know PAL if you're not there.

Cessna1052,

Present and ex-PAL pilots, I see the reason why they should bark.

Skyhawker,

For an outsider to be prescribing solutions when one doesn't really know PAL if not or haven't been there is crossing the self-righteousness and arrogance line. To take a righteous attitude about anything is to denigrate it. Are you so worried about status thus the need to denigrate another? Quoting Rizal et al. doesn't automatically qualify for a smart post. You could also be smart, boy (yes, you're a boy), but not necessarily filled to the brim in character. Capts. RB and HL, they have character. You obviously haven't learned from them.
http://static.pprune.org/images/stat...ser_online.gif http://static.pprune.org/images/buttons/report.gif http://static.pprune.org/images/buttons/reply_small.gif

Hey, Ike
 

You have my highest respect. Hang in there, brother.

low, time, low experience, low bars
 

... therefore no hear, no speak, no see, no right. and you talk about CRM. old school thinking, thats what it is.

Excursions: Talking of Numbers?
 

PAL=4...buPac=1 (DC-9 in Bacolod during 180 taxi back) remember such narrow Rwy 04 which forbids 180 before the runway end. Nobody is good when SOP is not followed.

Old school thinking
 

Your Post:
if the dogs do not bark or whimper, then they must be content with their condition or with the treatment they are receiving from their master.

My Reply:
What if the dogs have harness strapped on their mouth? what if proclaiming such statements lead to presumption that you're somebody sharp?.... oh no Parsifal, you dont really know PAL if you're not there. OR, if you are there, then you must be one of those who only agrees because you have low time , low experience , no enough bars to bark your way out in case subdued. - My statement doesnt mean that I agree with PAL culture.


- Oh no, im no old school. Thats why Im out and did not stay long enough to see my end with them. And yes, i talk about CRM and thats what it is.

Ian Del Castillo
 

I don't know you...but I wish I did.
You're worthy of my salute...
Admission of a mistake is the first step...
which is always the hardest...

Keep it up, brother!

Congratulations!
 

Congratulations Cpt. Del Castillo! This is the first time I have seen a pilot taking full responsibility for his action and not trying to cover up!

Great! Honesty helps!

Good luck in the investigation!

Verdict
 

So, whats the ending of the story? I heard from a PAL guy, verdict has been handed over to the F.D. crew.

verdict
 

its three months for me and a month for my partner.

safe flights to everyone

stork im still waiting

F:mad:k, and it counts from what day?

Sub-standard Airline
 

Censure, reprimand and suspension.... ah gotta love P.A.L !!!! Is there any kind of recurrency training? Or just a slap on the wrist for bending the plane? Any kind of CRM training that could prevents accidents from happening again or a new safety system to stem future problems? If the answer is NO... suspension will be as usefull as f...king a prostitute with syphilis. DR. PS is in the house and his prognosis is :The STD is in boys and girls and it aint going away anytime soon!

To all you sycophants that admire Ian for taking full responsiblity, that is only part of the problem at PAL. Ian fessed up, but what are the final outcomes of these runway incursions?

Real airlines have safety systems and CRM programs that are more than just a 1 day course at PLC or a tick in the box in your training file! Its an entire culture that promotes safety above everything. Passengers lives and the aircraft/property are more important that people's reputations and feelings. Being safe means that you will make a report even if you are friends with the captain or first officer or even if you will be persecuted for it when you get to Gate 1. Because reporting an incident even if it is trivial, allows others in similar situtations to learn from your mistakes. Ian's mistake is probably ONE of hundreds that haven't been reported. Unfortunately for Ian there is a bent airplane to expose the incident and unfortunately for safety at PAL many more will be hidden before someone dies. The promotion and encouragement of a Safety CULTURE is going to be hard for PAL due to traditions and culture. Safety will always be secondary.

PAL is truly a sub-standard airline. I KNOW THIS FOR FACT! No appologies here, until PAL changes!

adios
 

the three months started sept 15th. after that sim then routequal. which i really dont mind. ganun talaga eh. plus i think it will do me a lot of good.

@ planestupid why dont you return and make things better in PAL since you seem to know how to run a tight ship. or have you already given up on PAL?
i see the point that you are trying to drive at and yes you do have tons of valid points. but why rant on a company that you are not a part of anymore? i sense a lot of bitterness but as a proffesional you just oughta be happy that you are "out" of this company that you abhore so much.

peace to all and safe flying.
this will be my last post since the case has already been decided

STORK ASAN KA?! USAP TAYO THE CASE MAY BE OVER BUT IT AINT OVER BETWEEN US. (KULOT?)

"adios the three months started sept 15th. after that sim then route qual. which i really dont mind. ganun talaga eh. plus i think it will do me a lot of good." - Ian ------------------------------------------------------Ian shows the mark of a true professional. You've earned my respect, Captain.

Captain Ian
 

Time will tell you'll be remembered not for the incident/accident you did but how you acted afterwards...

I for one already forgot what incident/accident you were in. What's that again?

F--k! The thread title is a giveaway!

Ah! Anyway. Whatever it is, you'll be remembered not because of that.

All the best man!

big man syndrome?...

Kulot?
 

After seing this Thread , i dont know if US Filipinos Pilots who are in other countries would really be proud of our race. Guys , We do not have to feast on other pilots misfortunes. And again , Saying something about someones dad is really low.
You guys call yourself Professional Pilots? Think Again!!:=:=:=

Capt. , takes so much courage to accept your mistakes and I salute you for that. :ok::ok:

We all mistakes. " WHAT DOES NOT KILL YOU , MAKES YOU STRONGER AND BETTER"

Not like other pilots who have so much ego that coudnt accept that in a way or two , nagkamali din sila.

RE: Seniority thing.

For all pilots who think of themselves as "GOD" Shame on you. :=:=:=
This is not a Game we play up there. So listening to other peoples opinion woudnt always hurt. so , if you think of yourself as GOD.... WHATS THE PURPOSE OF THE RIGHT SEAT??? Might as well call Boeing or Airbus and suggest they just put 1 seat in the middle.

Reality check , there are 2 main seats on the FD and theres a reason for that.


Guys We are of the same blood , same race and same industry. We should be helping each other out not destroying each others reputation. so please , lets respect each other.

Peace out.

God Speed

DL FO. 737-800

P.P. isn't Stork
 

P.P. maybe be like what you say he is... but he is not STORK.... C'mon Stork be a man.... reveal yourself..... Stork, I know who you are....

i hate reading this sort of incident/accident scoring mania. i suggest you as a pilot should learn from from these mishaps. I admit, once near incident happens to you..it will take time to recover from the belief how good a pilot you are.

We cannot blame these young pilots in that airline, instead of making them Limited First Officers, they make them second officer. Just to save the airline money? How many planes can they afford to lose now! or lives!

Wake up you pilots on that airline, esp you have now an SVP who can't fly but is good in burning cd's.

I only know of one ab-initio paying class who became good pilots, but they were guided thoroughly by their management parents. The rest? we call them in our dialect= mga latak....

mga latak?
 

i normally would just let cheap shots aimed at avschool grads pass considering this is a network where anyone's emotion can just burst forth. but this one raises the bar, so to speak. while it is true that a chunk of avschool trainees comes from a lineage of pilot/s, it doesn't make them any better. the rest termed as 'latak' had to learn on their own, and if they do measure up to the standards, it is because of their sheer capacity and potential. after all, there's no such thing as a born flyer (or maybe some still suffer from the illusion that they are).

got on a flight with them between cebu and manila on a 747 and the pilots almost ran out of runway in Manila... totally overshot the touchdown point and wasn't braking properly, and that was a damn long runway !

Otherwise having been around a lot of airports in the Philippines the runways are really short and narrow, and yet they still land A320's on those post stamps, nothing like landing on a 3300 meters runway.

So sure there's bad pilots everywhere but don't forget about all the good ones. I did work in the Phils and seen good pilots and aweful pilots (sorry but most of them weren't good pilots but yet there's a few really good guys).

Any body know, if there is a official report about the Butuan Accident out and avaiable on line?

Regards,

Stubenfliege

Thanks a lot.