Unpredictable DGCA
 

How many pilots are going to be affected ?. Are the valuable and experienced expat pilots going to be affected?. Any other grapewine info would be appreciated. :confused:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/I...ow/2823867.cms

Is very dificult that you can find more stupid people in this world than the indian autorities, especially in the DGCA. Only God knows how many millions a month this collection of racing horses cost to the private airlines in India that are strugling to muve ahead and compete with the foreing giants. With the current demand for pilots world wide they are only hurting their own industry.

Corrupt DGCA
 

It appears to me, that this is just another ploy by the corrupt DGCA to get their palms greased. A few Rupee's will change hands on an individual basis and the matter will then be overlooked.

The sooner that ICAO and the rest of the Aviation World realizes that the Indian Government, and the DGCA are doing nothing short of raping everyone the better. Perhaps, the US, UK and Canada should come up with some rules making it extremely difficult for Indian Licensed Pilots to fly into those countries. Then and only then will this Third World Country, with their highly uwarranted superior attitude towards the rest of the world, start to change the way that they do business.

It was reported a couple of days ago in the US, that up to as high as 1/3 of the Student Pilots in the US (a large majority from India) at the moment are here without TSA approval. Hence they are here illegally. So how about the US Government fines each one of them some outrageous amount, sends them packing home and forbids any refund of monies paid for training up to the point they are exported?

Makes about as much sense as what the DGCA has proposed doesn't it? Great way to improve relations across International Lines!!

And the worst part is that the pilots who've held the approvals before were not given any grand father rights. Just like that one fine day your license is no longer valid although you have been flying on the same license for years and years.

I don't understand how would flight training in UK or any other country and than getting their RT licence is valid but god forbid if you train in the USA and got yourself an UK RT licence. Even though the UK CAA allows JAA flight training in the USA and the RT practical test to be carried out in the USA as well.

This country will never change. Sometime I feel that in India I am surrounded with incompetence.

DGCA is allowing people with FAA CPL to fly in India on FATA (they never even considered converting the FCC licence) but they will not allow a person who holds a commonwealth RT licence to operate in India.

Good luck to all the Certificate of Proficiency holders, I guess I am one of the lucky few who bothered to do the Indian RT which was issued to me after asking me useless questions in the viva and where a friend of mine was failed because his dad was an airline pilot and the second question they asked him was "do you think it is easy to become a pilot?" of course the first one was "What does your dad do?"

arghhh just venting, i promise i will be okay :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Does the new rule affect expat pilots that are currently flying, or expats that a company hires in the following months/years?

Since the new rule came into effect February 7, what would be the status of an application that was sent in before that date, for a direct conversion from a UK RT license to the Indian one.

Any comments?

it is pridictable DGCA
 

LOOKING at the DGCA rules its all about indian CPL/ATP etc
nothing much on other country licences
that may be the reason DGCA tends to fall in the rules and regulation folds of the book.

Again I say, a HIGHLY UNWARRANTED SUPERIORITY towards the rest of the Aviation World. I suspect from his numerous posts that Getstogo works for the DGCA.

curruption
 

in india curruption :}
as law of the land one who gives favours and the one who takes favour both are criminals:eek:

helo NG expat
 

looking at your threads it looks that countries you have masioned are going to loose the bussiness they are getting from india.
all these countries are looking to sell there aeroplanes /FIGHTER JETS to indian airforce,
looking to sign nuclear deal with india.
and also increase more bussiness relations with india.
if some body gives you magic stick i dont knw what will happen?

if one airline closes in india in next two years all your bright ideas will go waiste.
it looks as if you are living in india and not happy with the way things move india.
best thing is in ROME do as the ROMANS do.
THAT IS WHAT PROBABLY DGCA IS TRYING TO DO

OPERATION OF RADIO in india
 

This licence is granted by ministry of communication.
with this licence any body can use his personal radio transmitters/recievers
(HAM ) to operate R/T this is central govt rule,and it may be due to safety and security concerns of the country.
based on this licence aviation body issues another licence called flight radio operators licence.

re foreign pilots
 

no ,this ruling does not affect the foreign pilot as he/she flies on a validation which requires their origin country license and medical to be valid.

But it affects a lot of Indian pilots who have converted a foreign R/T license (UK,Canda etc etc) from the WPC,ministry of communications , sanchar bhavan without having a pilot's license of that country.it was far easier and less time consuming to stopover in the UK for a few days and get the UK R/T than try to pass the Indian R/T exam which has a transmission and viva .Pass rates are usually about less than 10% for the exam and are held 4 times a year.Peparation for this exam requires one to memorise the major trunk routes of India , workings of the Aeradio/AIP , technical knowledge in Radio navigation and secondary school physics . Coaching classes are available and usually a month's study can prepare one for it well.

I agree that those pilots currently flying should have been spared but then the Indian government agencies have their own ways....at least they dont have to appear for both the parts....

best of luck to all those affected .....masalama.

Blame the System !!
 

I don't blame the Indian Pilots for the sins of the DGCA. Corruption victimises everyone, there are no winners in this game. Hopefully, the future generation of aviators in India will be bold and not succumb to the corruption loopholes.
Inventing regulations reflects the mindset of the system and not the folks affected by them.
Be professional and fly safe.:cool:

Indian DGCA.....LAW & DISORDER...!!!
 

The DGCA..........A LAW BY ITSELF........!!
These are people who have lost out in other walks of life and have used extremely corrupt means to rise in the corporate system and then become a law unto themselves....
Take for example the fact that you have to have a Dgca "interview" when you change from one indian carrier to another......or the fact that a Dgca "rep"( read Foi ) has to be present when you are being cleared for as an indian Tre/Tri/Sfi or Cp...!! Or the fact that AFTER getting 90%+ in an ATPL written exam,you STILL have to appear for a 'personal interview' with the Dgca FOI ( who makes sure he's 'not available' for months on end ) before passing his/her ATPL papers.ALL in he name of some currency exchanging palms between the Foi and the airline..( which has been amply corroborated by buddies of mine flying in the region ).
There were times in the indian aviation scenario when such 'babuism' would go unnoticed.But in today's media savvy,yuppie and educated, young aviation scene such corrupt ways and non transparent systems would only get the Director General (Mr Gohain in this case) and his organisation the wrath (if not more ) of the GOI and the Civil aviation ministry....to say the least!! I wonder if Mr Kanu Gohain(DG) even knows whats cooking in the embers....! Fact of the matter is that the MOST corrupt officials in the Dgca are sadly our own bretheren.The aviator who has graduated to become the babu....the Foi/Cfoi.
Far from over is this battle.All I can say is that they better mend their corrrupt ways.Or they better understand that the pilot is an enemy not worth taking up arms against and surely one to reckon with.
Every man has his skeleton,and every ghost has a shadow....

The only way the DGCA will wake up and smell the cofee, is when the GOI, is hit by economic sanctions by foreign countries. By that I mean a very restricted sanctions such as refusal for AI or Jet or anyone to land in the other countries. A bit extreme? Yes! But that is all that will get the Babus' attention and the corrupt heads might roll. If the expats complain loudly and frequently to their individual governments citing unfair practices, not following ICAO guidelines or whatever ,it might get some action.
Unfortunately,that will happen when it is a cold day in hell.The almighty dollar/pound/yen/yuan is much more powerful than a few hundred pilots.
Alt3.

Exactly Correct
 

You are right on the money Alouette. I already registered a complaint with the FAA after the screwing I got by the DGCA. I might as well have been pissing into a 100 Knot Wind!! However, USA Today has expressed some interest, so perhaps some public pressure may bring some change.

either way is good
 

intresting to see who follows whom?

DGCA follows FAA,JAR or ......JAR,FAA FOLLOWS DGCA
it will be the best for pilots
no need for licence conversions and so many other hurdles coming towards licence renewal endorsements.


good luck guys

alt3
 

aloutte3

many pilots will go jobless:}

india had all kind of sanctions after becoming nuclear
today all foreign countries are trying to tie up with india for nuclear tech.
inspite of the sanctions from USA india had offered aid for Katrina to U s a
this is not the history but recent in last 10 years.

Well, if you want to know what (the majority of) the Indian government think about the general public, just watch interviews aired on TV with ministers. Their body language says it all: slouched over their easy chair or sofa, mumbling half-audible gibberish. Hardly the image of anyone interested in getting the country moving forward.

economic sanctions
 

alouette3

if india puts economic sanctions what will happen?

thx flightnight for the thread which from licencing deviated to economics
then to politics.
i wonder what will happen if india puts FATA in to deep freezer for 6 months
for the pilots & then there will be no cold coffee even .

Not going to happen
 

intresting to see who follows whom?

DGCA follows FAA,JAR or ......JAR,FAA FOLLOWS DGCA

Despite a tense relationship with the FAA, US pilots do not have to contend with corruption when it comes to getting their licenses. The FAA is staffed with some of some of the brightest aviation minds - design engineers, veteran pilots, ex-astronauts etc..
It really depends on the quality of the folks running an organisation. So i guess the DGCA will need to clean up and follow the FAA or JAR.

nothing is impossible
 

importent is combine the best among all the aviation.
After formation of EU ,many COUNTRIES who joined EU are becoming JAR based from there individual DGCA"s and bringing common regulations in EU.
its the matter of time when these bigger organisations sit togather and thrash out issues for the good of aviation worldwide.
it will bring more transparency for dgca as well the pilots towards licencing and flying.
which is as of now taken care by issue of spacial licences by dgca in india.
india has gone throu lots of hijacking,bomb threats ,and terrorism related issues. many of those rules concerning security will be a big question mark to change.
every country will have such issues.
even FAA has followed these security related regulations after 9-11.

Change has to happen within
 

Corruption is a disease or rather a virus. The FAA and JAR can only provide technical and regulatory knowledge. It is impossible to change a system that thrives on being corrupt and victimises highly qualified professionals.
This is not just a bad habit - it is a disease, so "getsetgo" please tell me your ideas to cure the DGCA.
I hear some real horror stories from students/professional pilots who have interacted with the DGCA. Is it possible that all these folks are lying about a great moral source with exemplary principles?.

do not bribe
 

simplest cure is stop bribing.
bcz in india by law is who gives favours/bribe is 101% punishable than who takes bribe.

getsetgo
 

so the word to the wise. Do not bribe, give a gift that he can forward to his child's school. Cash please , no checks.
This is a fact of life in 3rd world countries. Actually in all countries the ritual of bribing is performed in one way or the other.
In the US, some girls when stopped by a policeman for a traffic violation try to make a date with the man. Would that be considered an attempt to bribe the man?
Fly low and slow and enjoy the sights

I agree with HiAlt, its not the bribe that you give when you go to get your work done. Ohh its lets say the gifts that you bestow on them as Diwali gifts and now even Christmas gifts.

The question that comes in is whether you are willing to take the monetory losses that comes with not bribing? I was asked a meager INR5000 for the issue of my ATPL. I simply refused to pay the money as my paper work was in order and had all the relevant qualification. Well, rather than taking a week to issue the licence DGCA took 3 months. In my company we got a pay raise of INR 120,000 upon issue of ATPL. So I reckon I lost out on almost INR350,000 by not giving that 5K in bribe. Yes, I have self satisfaction that my licence was issued without giving bribe, but that bit costed me almost US$8500. Was it worth it? To me every penny of it :)

The Babu mentality is going away slowly, of course not quick enough for many people. When the current DG retires, I have learnt from reliable sourse, that the new DG will be from outside. Some really dynamic IAS officer (as if they do not take bribes.)

Kudos Desipilot
 

Its not good to sell ones soul in the name of money. Good for you Desipilot. I'm sure there are going to be more brave souls who will expose these corrupt derelicts. Its got to stop sometime and its folks like you who make the changes. It shows leadership and it will take you a long way in your career. All the best :ok:

flightknight

"The FAA is staffed with some of some of the brightest aviation minds - design engineers, veteran pilots, ex-astronauts etc.."

Quiet agree. the FAA are also staffed with some of the rudest a***holes I have ever spoken too. Had to deal with one such moron at Fort,L, FL, early last year.

getsetgo:

I admire your nationalist attitude. But with all due respect ,you and your attitude sucks big time. It is attitudes like yours that have permitted the Indian DGCA and the GOI to have their collective heads up their a****.
Forget about Katrina and all that other crap you posted earlier. How does a common man deal with the DGCA? Riddle me that,Batman.
The plain unvarnished and unpalatable (to some ) truth is that while there is progress and prosperity in India today(for which everyone should be proud), the government and the infrastructure are still in the Dark Ages. Otherwise how can you explain the fact that the nation that provides computer programmers worldwide ,has a departmnet (DGCA) that won't even respond to an email or query?How can you explain the fact that the nation that has the finest doctors in the world allows only two or three organizations to conduct a flight physical? I could go on but you get the picture.
I will tell you why.It is because the babus and people like getsetgo make the rules.They would rather stay in the last century than come out and ply with the rest of the world.
Sorry if I sound peeved but I have had enough of the DGCA and their ass kissing supporters. Those expats who want to go to India for pay, aircraft type qualification, adventure etc. you have been warned. If you want any of those things try the Gulf or SE Asia. Let the Indian private airlines park/crash their expensive new toys before they kick the DGCA into catching up.Until then nothing will or has changed.
Thanks for letting me vent. I feel better now.
Alt3.
P.S The FAA might be rude but at least they respond to emails and telephone calls and ,more times than not, they perform as advertised.

Conceded.

As for the Indians not answering emails, it is a national past time. Part of their culture, unless of course they stand to gain from answering.

weldone desi
 

what money you lost today will bring you rewards tomarrow and it will be in multifications not additions.
you have not lost anything ,but maintained your principles.you are already rich on principles. :ok:
there is no end to money

minister
 

railway minister is handling worlds biggest network.
he is planning to connect china to bulgaria rail network passing thro +25 countries.
he is engg graduate can speak +16 languages can learn more.
if i have to do so much.....i will have no time to paste my face for camera.
media alway hunting for him....when he is off and you are on
curry comes here.

al fakham
 

minister

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

railway minister is handling worlds biggest network.
he is planning to connect china to bulgaria rail network passing thro +25 countries.
he is engg graduate can speak +16 languages can learn more.
if i have to do so much.....i will have no time to paste my face for camera.
media alway hunting for him....when he is off and you are on
curry comes here.

do not run
 

do your job.
and go for jog

Gentlemen
 

Most of us come from "first world" Western countries. Many of us have the tendency to measure the rest of the world with our yardstick. When I leave home, I change the currency in my pocket. In this case to rupees. This affects my attitude, tolerance etc. towards the people and the country.
I take "the bitter with the sweet" and every country I have been (with the exception of Sudan) had something that I enjoyed. About bribes (tips = to insure prompt service), know when to hold and when to fold. If this people would earn the salaries of our government employees, the system could be changed. BTW 5000 rupees for 3 months wait, wellll I just don't have that much time to waste. In many ways we are fortunate to have the opportunities that exist today and see the world our parents could only dream about. Obviously most of you do not remember the 70's, the time no aviation jobs where available at home.
Yall watch that TCAS now

Facts of Life
 

I was on a visit to India a few years ago and met a retired TOP police official. He owned a modest two bedroom home and had a scooter for transportaion. He was transferred 32 times during his career.
Fact is, he never compromised on his ETHICS. I asked him WHY. He told me he will enjoy everyday to the end because he has a clear conscience.
The COCKPIT at any cost is not everyones GOAL.
Fly safe ........

hopefully we don't have to pay bribe to get the job.
PS : I even had to bribe the officer to get my two wheeler license, huh

authority
 

DGCA is indipendent regulatory body only for aviation, whereas FAA JAR work under ministry of transportation.
DGCA has more authority and powers than FAA/JAR.
so FAA JAR Cannot really follow DGCA
or DGCA EITHER WAY

The DGCA babuism....!!
 

getset,

The problem with DGCA is exactly what you said, they think they are independent body and they do not have to answer to anyone. What you are forgetting is that at the end of the day you are still a civil servant and your pay is paid by the taxes that I pay every month. If you think you (DGCA) are anywhere close to FAA or JAA you are sadly mistaken my friend. Yes, I hold all three licenses, FAA, JAA and DGCA and I can tell you that DGCA stands no where compared to FAA or JAA. The biggest difference is they treat you like a human being.

I don't think DGCA will ever change. They like their paper work too much, I guess that is how they feel important.

DGCA may be the only authority in the world that doesn't allow First officers to land the aircraft until they have done their assisted take off and landing checks.... so god forbid if the captain passes out, all the passengers are in deep sh*t since the FO has never landed the plane in normal circumstances forget about the case of crew incapacitation. Who think of these rules anyway?

Indian citizens who are flying on FATA be warned. As soon as the shortage is over, the DGCA will cancel the FATA in a heart beat, like they have done it for the RT licence. So you better pass your Indian exams as soon as possible and start flying on the Indian license.

First Officers not allowed to Land ??
 

Please clarify : FO's not allowed to land ?. Is the Airline Passengers Association aware of this ?
This is tantamount to suicide, if the captain becomes incapacitated for any reason. I am not sure if the world aviation body is aware of this. I'm sure the insurance companies will be interested in this news , since they will be the ones shelling out the big bucks in case of a catastrophe.