Great Wall Airlines - Shanghai
 

Hello guys,

Does anyone know about Great Wall airlines current recruitment, packages and work lifestyle?

Appreciate hearing your views and suggestions.

Thanks..:D..MJim

Steer well clear. Don't touch it with a barge pole

Genghis Khan,

Care to elighten us on GW?

Gengis, thanks for the reply. Would you mind elaborating on the comments posted. Will be much appreciated.

Cheers and thanks.
Mj.

1) Oft changing schedules with little notice;

2) Serious politics going on with a whole host of different "groups", the effects trickling down un-imaginably into your flight deck depending on who you are flying with on that day;

3) SIA management. If you don't like what you heard about SIA, you'll not want to be here;

4) Poor maintenance. All kinds of MELS, only 2 a/c opertaing while cannibalising from a 3rd aircraft;

5) No travel benefits. Your "Travel Allowance" would just about get you the lowest economy ticket that you found on priceline.com with the help of Capt Kirk;

Just a few, to whet your appetites

Hi Genghi,

Heard from some SQ folks that GWA is in total mass chaos. The boss, in charge of the pilots, is spending company funds, laying on his girlfriend.

A recent hiccup when a pilot tries to leave, the same boss is trying to claim 5 million RMB from him for damages.

Any truth in these.

NEWS
 

Hey Gents,
Apparently this air line is a "dump", anyway I have an interview schedulled for April in Singapore, any news on that process?
Does any one that actually flyes for them can help me out with valid info and not rumors?
Any help would be appreciated!!!
Thanks

Gengis, thanks again. I will be detouring the other side.

Cheers and happy flying.
mj

Which one?
 

Tristar...which airline are you interviewing with? SQ...SQ Cargo or The Wall?
Cheers

Interview in SIN for GWA
 

The interview is in SIN but for a job with GWA, that is why I am looking for some info about it!!!

Once you step foot in a Chinese airline you will find it VERY difficult to leave. There is an acute shortage of pilots in China. Getting a pilot to join is difficult enough. So they will try by all means to keep you. Going to another Chinese airline is near impossible. There is a HUGE penalty if one hops from one Chinese airline to another within China - more than a million rmb. And if you want to leave China for another foreign airline you will face extreme difficulties. So be forewarned ...

TriStar: those are not rumors.

Thanks
 

Guys,

Thank very much!
Could you be more specific on how it works?
Do they treat you fairly?
How is the life style in shanghai?
Can you comute?

Thanks for the help

Extreme difficulties
 

B74567 wrote:



Could you explain this? Will you be ... "Shanghaied"? :)

Understood that they not not able to recruit anyone for 2.5 years, due to extreme contract conditions. Half the force has resigned since started, including a recent 35% resignation.

According to my pals working in SQ, you will breeze tho' the interview. You will be given a letter of offer, with all the promises in the world that you would like to hear. You will be so happy that you have finally landed on a job of a life-time. You happily resign from your present company.

After joining GWA, you will be offered a Chinese contract of 5 slavery years, where all the great things and promises, are not inside and reduced. Education is not enough. Local farmers' medical coverage. No dental. No LOL coverage. Housing is not sufficient. No uniforms. No travel benefits. Commuting is difficult with the many flight delays, and roster changes. Salary is different between each other. Max flying for Captain; Min or no flying for FOs. All off days are SQ-styled -- put on standby. No promotion legally for FOs - they tell you sweet stories. What do you do next, the mafia just smirks at you. You file a lawsuit -- no way -- the Singaporean Python and GWA has strong connections in Mainland China and Singapore. Meantime, he spends the money he saved from you laying on his GF. You try to contact him, he does not answer your phone calls and emails. He never goes to his office. When you finally get to see him after months, he smirks at you. You ask him about all the stuffs and problems, he will repeat all his great promises and stories during recruitment. You have your doubts and goes off....the whole cycle repeats again and again.

You want to leave --- no way....Mafia makes you pay the 5 million RMB for poaching fees in China. Heard that GWA is the only one, doing this to expatriates. Go to another country, yes - he will spead bad rumours about you in the aviation arena, and to your next employer.

Singapore python has virtually bankrupted and destroyed the livelihood of some of his pilots.

I steer well clear of GWA after all these insiders' stories from my pals working in SQ. Why should I put myself and family in the situation that my good pals has warned me on.

AK

Tristar,

You are not understanding or comprehending what has been said at all. You asked the questions and the answers to all of them - apart from life in Shanghai - have already been given. They are, emphatically, NO.

Now please go there if you wish, then come back here in 9 months to tell your stories of what has happened.

My SQ pals tells me that landing a job there is not a problem. The interview is a formality. You will feel welcomed. You will feel wanted ... until you sign on the dotted line. You may like it there. But if you don't then the nightmare begins. "Freddy Kruger" (of Nightmare on Elm Street) will even look harmless then.

Heard of a recent thread from some folks in SIA. Can any kind souls from GWA confirm this. Seems like it is getting out of control...

An expatriate pilot resigns recently, after being accepted by a HK company. After the three months' notice, GWA magt, in short Singapore Python, demands 1.9 million RMB for compensation from that pilot.

That pilot is an experienced pilot with thousands of hours. Singapore Python bonds this chap for three years at about USD90,000 reducing bond, with a bank guarantee of SGD35,000 for the B747-400 type-rating.

After two years with the company, he cannot accept all the ****s in GWA and found a better job. He resigns. He paid USD30, 000, inclusive of his SGD 35,000 bank guarantee, to GWA. Another USD30,000 is paid by that HK company to GWA as a kind gesture to that chap, on the basis that he joins that HK company. That clears his bond.

However, at the end of the three months' notice, GWA's Singapore Python refuses to give this chap a release letter, to indicate that he no longer has any contractual issues with GWA. Singapore Python demands a ransom of 1.9 million RMB for this letter.

The HK company is operating Chinese registered aircrafts. Thus, the HK company requires that poor chap to get a release letter from GWA. This requirement is only a recommendation by the authorities to reduce proaching of local Chinese pilots. It is the intention of the local civil aviation authorities that this recommendation only applies to local, and not expatriates. Nevertheless, without the release letter, the HK company cannot receive that chap's 'employment records' in China. Which means, he cannot start work with the HK company.

Filing a law suit, would take this poor chap one to two years to settle. Meantime, he will have no income. Thus, he opts to withdraw his resignation from GWA. Singapore Python agrees to accept this chap, only at the bottom of the salary scale. Furthermore, he is not returning the USD60000 back to that poor chap. They intend to keep the money. Thus, even if that poor chap stays in GWA to continue his service for another one or two years, GWA is not returning any single cents of the USD 60,000 to him. He now owns another USD 30,000 to the HK company.

Wonder what happens next....

Also heard that even for guys who has no bond or contractual issues, GWA is still not issuing this letter. As such, these guys will never be able to find another job in China forever in their lifetime.

The good news is Air China, China Eastern, Hainan Airlines, Shenzhen Airlines, China Cargo, Jade Cargo, OKair is not applying this ruling to expatriate pilots. In fact, only GWA is doing this..........

AJ

AJ,

It is most unfortunate that what you heard is true....

Genghis

Does this mean I can't go to another China's airline once I join Great Wall? This don't sound so good.

Well, you can give it a try and let the rest of us know, eh? ;)

...hmmm after reading that post regarding the 747 chap... i guess i'll be taking my coat and leave this up to you guys.... :}

heard that they make you sign 2 contracts. 1 english, 1 chinese. but in case of any dispute, the chinese must be followed. now, how do you know if the chinese and english contracts are the same if you are not able to read chinese?

how is the T&C compared to other carriers in the region?

any other inputs on this?

All contracts involving a non Chinese speaker/reader should read "The binding language of this contract shall be English." Even English teachers get that!

Well be thankful they didn't offer to base you in Tibet... :ugh:

then again, maybe the per diem for Lhasa would be quite high....... "Personal Safety Allowance" ;)

Heard from mates in SQ,

You don't actually see the actual legal binding chinese contract with GWA until you are six months into the system. This is inclusive of the type-rating and chinese APTL conversion.

By then, it is too late when all the promised terms & conditions in the original letter of offer are reduced by half.

AJ

AJ

That's right. SIA cargo would have bonded you and collected SGD35000, or SGD55000 from you as bank guarantee.

Your legal English contract with SIA cargo expires once you have completed your conversion training after 6 months. You will be transferred to GWA, where you will now be thrown with an actual legal Chinese contract, with reduced terms & conditions that were originally promised and advertised.

You can't really do much at this stage, after having committed yourself for six-eight months to Greatwall. You can leave, if you are willing to lose your SGD35000, or SGD55000. Signing the Chinese contract, will also lead you into a 1.9 million RMB debt if you decide to leave later.

Genghis

Genghis2,

you just told some scary ghost stories!:eek:

It's all true

Fair Pilot....

That's probably the facts. These are genuire facts, according to my good folks in SQ.

And no pilot has joined GWA since mid-2006.

Do you believe they are facts now? The statistics tells itself.

AJ

If that's the case, I personally think we have the obligation to warn other pilots against joining GWA at all cost!

Heard the latest thread from SQ pals,

8 days on, 6 days off for transmile MD11 pilots

no bond

These were the new carrots offered to the furlough transmile pilots

Any truth?

AJ

GWA
 

it is better to ask them the package before you leave

GWA
 

hi
you better ask the company the whole package before you leave .

GWA
 

is there anybody who can tell us the good side of GWA?
i read the bad side up to now.

The only good side is flying those "helicopters" in Shanghai..... if you know what i mean ;)

Those SQ guys will be able to fill you in about this... Heard one of them went for his "training" and ended up having to passenger back home, after she "crash landed on him"! I think they'd call that a "Shanghai auto-rotation".... :D:E

Gengis
 

Would you mind to elaborate better on your statement? It looks like chinese for the non initiated...

After what we learned here could be anything positive on a miserable outfit like this? Chinese contracts, lies, prision??? It is a shame somebody could even consider join such a mafia!!!!

I'm sorry - it's got nothing to do with aviation. Apparently it's one of those sleazy late-nite hanky panky activities that some people get up to in Shanghai.

To get back to the point, there is NO good thing about this company as far as flying goes. About the only thing that might entice one to take a longer look at it is the fact that you can have lots of days OFF in Shanghai, if you have a special reason for wanting to be there on a more extended basis.

I shan't elaborate further on what others have already so eloquently said. Bottom line - go at your own risk

Akistar,

What you heard is very true. No bond/bank guarantee for us Transmile boys and the days off sounds about right which will allow us to commute back to KL.

Mr Green,

Obviously you have not dug deep enough into the MAS grapevine. All the MAS guys know about what's going on. Haven't you read that article in the 'union' website......

Back to the topic,

You guys have not understood the the 1.9million saga. Greatwall makes it applicable to anyone who tries to leave, with or without a bond. Basically, if you try to jump ship in China, Greatwall wants 1.9 million from u, regardless of whether you have a bond or no bond. Read the previous article on this thread in pprune.

Also, do you think they will pay you the same as the rest of the guys if they pay for your type-ratings? Never happens in SQ for the last 30 years....do you Greatwall will rock the boat.....How naive......they do what everyone is doing ...pay you a lower salary than what they suppose to pay you initially for that position. Have you not heard that guys, with the same level of experiences, are getting different salaries in Greatwall.

8 days work/ 6 days off. Have you not heard of AOGWL??

AO ...GWL or AOG ...WL ? Every sector and every other day, there is a delay, quite often more than 24 hrs....wonder how you could 8 on/ 6 off/8 on/6 off in a month?????? Even the rostering officer has resigned in Jan.....

Your 8 days are basically on a long COP of 7-8 days . This is to cut cost for the company, bec you are not paid per diem or any meal/nightstop allowances, wherelse the SQ seconded guys get meal/nightstop allowances.

Then comes the AOG......and you have already paid for your firm tickets. GW will not, I repeat, will not reimburse you if you can't make it for your flight home. Do that once a month...and you will be pissed off.
Most times, it happens to a lot of guys.

Please go and read MAS rumours website, if you know what I mean....talk to the MAS guys....dug deeply ...

Genghis