Likewise...prompt replies to relevent questions, course dates offered in coordination with leaving the old employer, all wrapped up in a very informative package. Not sure what HR looks like now, there have been a couple of personnell changes in the the last year or so...(no more Dragon lady!:eek:) I would guess it all depends on how many applied and how many will get an offer.

Age Limit
 

Anybody know age limit to join SIA Cargo as well as SIA Passengers?

What, no more Dragon Lady??? Sacre bleu! Actually, I found her to be very helpful and prompt in replying to queries.
Can't help with the max age to join Cargo, but the max. age to fly in SIN is 62, but will, no doubt, rise to 65 in good time. I believe it has to do with Singapore's labour laws concerning retirement age.

FYI Confirmation
 

I have just received confirmation email and invite to interview, sim and med. visit in April.



Good luck to all,
HH

Not trying to be a party-pooper or sour grapes, but those seriously considering joining SQ and required to enter into a training bond, at least consider my warnings in a separate post. Knowledge is everything.

The very FIRST thing you do in the first 5 minutes of entering the office when joining SQ is to sign the training bond. It's not till after, that you start seeing some of the fine print.

eg... the advert on their site says once a year free home base travel. Be advised, it's not really free. You have to pay the departure/airport taxes, which from SIN to the either Europe/USA is about $60 per ticket. But, that's not the real hit. On top of that, they add the FULL non-discounted value of the travel on to your taxable compensation. You will pay 10% in taxes on that. So my home base travel ends of costing me close to $300 per family member. Free? I don't think so. Also, the ticket is only valid to the city that you designate when joining as your "entry city" so to speak. Can never be changed over the duration of your contract.

advert also says: "free generous medical coverage" actually, not really free. again, the premiums the company pays are added to your taxable compensation. AND, (a big and), the coverage offered for your dependents is laughable. Basically covers very minor issues with lots of exclusions, up to a maximum of S$8,000/year. I can not sleep at night knowing that, so I purchase addtional insurance. another net reduction in compensation you had not counted on.

All these things whittle away at the annual package they advertise. And you don't learn about these things until after you have signed a S$142,000 training bond, brought S$56,000 in cash to SIN, not to mention the cost of moving yourself/family there. The S$5,000 they provide for moving expenses will cover the average bachelor. Not a married man, especially with children.

There is lots of other "fine print" that you can't/won't read until after signing the bond agreement.

caveat emptor!

PQ

thanks PQ
 

Thanks for the warning PQ. Sometimes we ignore these things when we are staring at a big new shiny Airplane. Your words give pause for thought.

“When work is a pleasure, life is a joy. When work is a duty, life is slavery.”
Maxim Gorky

Sd 56,000.....???!!?? Wow...
 

Well spoken chapola.....
PQ.....
"brought S$56,000 in cash to SIN".......whats this SD 56,000 in cash that u have to "bring" to Singapore pls...??!!:confused:
And is the 142,000 a cash up front or indemnity bond.....ie do they deduct from ur salary,or is it an insurance against leaving...?? I'm talking expat terms...
BD

Yes, stump up with case AS WELL AS sign a bond. Nothing foolish about this lot. I believe that one of the first things they ask and they ask it more than once, is if you are able to meet bonding requirements. If not, "Game over".

Good luck.

Sq Training Bond /bank Guarantee Straight Talk
 

Straight skinny on the training bond arrangement with SQ (my numbers relate to my contract, however the principle will be the same).

Training Bond total you sign is for S$142,000. Your liability lineraly reduces on a pro rated monthly basis (S$2367 / month) over 60 months once you have COMPLEATED YOUR INITIAL LINE CHECK (read not from date of joining. Training takes forever!). Bank guarantee in the amount of S$56,000 is part of the S$142,000, not in addition to. This amount you must place on deposit in a bank in Singapore within two weeks of joining (along with all the legal letters that SQ will supply for you AND which you must use). If you default on the bond (leave early), the company immediately exercises its right to these funds and applies it to your bond liability. So, if you leave late in your term, you may owe less than this amount and will receive the balance due you.

The gratuity of S$10,000 per year that they pay you if you stick it out is further financial pressure/incentive to encourage you to stay.

I've made the statement that this bond amount is exorbitant and bears no relation to SQs actual training cost. As a perspective, Alteon training in Seattle will provide you training for a B-744 type rating on your ATPL for approximately US$12,500 and done in four weeks.

None of this was an issue for me before joining because I naively believed the advertisements and verbal statements made to me regarding my compensation and working conditions. I also naively believed that I would be treated with professional respect. Had my experience mirrored these expectations, the bond arrangement was/would have been ok with me.

They will ask you at the interview if you have any questions about the bonding arrangement. We are all human and all will have a reticence in asking to much about this because many will feel it will have a negative impact on one's being offered employment. I don't think that is a misguided concern.

So again, think long and hard before signing such an agreement. Ask yourself if you would as cavalierly enter into a similar financial arrangment in other areas of your life. Once offered employment, request a copy of the bonding agreement and the full contract terms/conditions. If going to mainline, contact ALPA-S and get a copy of their CA. If going to Cargo, go online to CAAS (Singapore's FAA/JAA) and look at the flight time limitations. This will give you guidance on how "hard" you will work and what they can do to you.

Again, Singapore itself is very nice, food great, safe, people friendly and easy to acclimate for you/family. That's the only thing that has kept me here this long (2 plus years), despite the overall negative experience with the company. But it's not enough to keep me here for 5 1/2 years.

PQ

Does SIA offer a pension fund/plan for pilots?

Thank you, HH

HH

They do indeed have a " cunning plan " but nothing to do with pensions.

PS No such word as Pension in "Singlish"

Haven't seen the actual advertisement myself, but I heard the latest SIA DEC offer (for pilot recruitment) in the aviation publications where it usually can be found is less than 2/3's ($'s) of what is currently in place for those already employed. Anybody have details? A significant downward trend in compensation with the supposedly shortage of pilots? - would be pretty bold if true.

A buddy in SIA tells me that they are negociating a new collective agreement right now and that things are looking pretty grim. He cautions that the advertised package may not be honored as the new CA will take preference.

PQ,

Nice work on the training bond issue.

While I have had some negative experiences the positives outweigh the negatives by far. SIA/Cargo is like any other job, you do the research then you make a decision.

I would generally recommend SIA/Cargo to any DEC. It is without question the best job I could have, given my situation. That said, it may not be the best for you. That doesn't make it a "bad" job or a "good" job. Rather, it makes it a "good" job for me and my family.

Those of you looking for work need to make up your own minds as to what will disqualify particular jobs during your employment search.

Good luck, and good hunting. May you be as happy with the results as I am with mine.:ok:

Pleased to see you happy Ark. You do raise a valid point. We too are happy in Singapore but that is occasionally despite the airline rather than because of it.

There are imho definite warning signs that SIA are trying harder than at almost any time to significantly reduce terms and conditions and we need ALPA S to stand firm when any CA is negotiated.

And just how do you suppose are they able to stand firm?

Management doesn't recognize the expats right to be recognized by ALPA-S. If they did it wouldn't matter since by law, expats don't have a vote, unless they are a PR, then they don't have housing/education allowance.

We could all join ALPA-S as a show of support, (what's your status?), but that gesture would be largely symbolic.

At the end of the day, it's all a matter of who waits out who and what do you agree to in order to maintain labor peace. We (expats) are guest workers who observe the process from the sideline and offer encouragement to those who fight our battles.

I would still rather be on the sidelines in Singapore than anywhere else. JMHO;)

Just look what happened a few years when a previous Alpha-S person stood firm. He was, despite being a PR ( Permanent Resident ) booted out of SQ and Singapore.

As Ark Pilot rightly points out there is no "standing firm". You will get what SQ decide and if you want to say no then like some time ago it 2.5 years to agree a new CA and after the Ministry get involved to settle dispute if Alpha-S still do not agree then standby to be threatened with no back pay which quickly sorted it out last time around.

This is still a good job for some depending on your own personal situation. Personally I would not have left my company to join SQ based on current rental costs in Singapore,and currency exchange rates.

Although the Bond is large you do at least get it all back after 5 years on the line. Just make sure you are prepared to stay the course and know what you are letting yourself in for and do not rely on large bonuses year on as the formula could change and goal posts moved.

So, the only options are to bend over and hope there is more vaseline than splinters on the broom handle or resign?:=

There are other options but I agree you have to tread very carefully.:ok:

It all depends of where you are coming from now.

HH

Indeed it does. But, speaking as someone who came from an airline that couldn't organise the proverbial in a brewery, paid abysmally and generally ceased caring about its pilot workforce, can I say that life in Singapore will, indeed, seem great for a year or so. Then, the reality sets in. Sure, it might pay a little more than where you (and I suspect I) joined from, but 32 days leave v 57? No staff travel to speak of v ID90 after 6 months, fairly low taxation v no tax whatsoever, petrol at $2 a litre v 50 cents? Inflation at almost 7%. House rentals up by almost 100% in 3 years and only 11% increase in housing allowance?

There are some plusses to living and working here and, yes, it is still better than where I came from (by a country mile) but the trend is worrying - very worrying.:ok:

Bananas
I know what you mean about the reality setting in. I well remember Phil Squares waxing lyrical about SIA Cargo trying to make out the contract was as good as mainline.He never seemed to position or when he did it was always in First Class etc. He always seemed to fly only 50/ 55 hrs a month and seemed happy with that despite flying pay being reduced as in my book you need to fly 70+ hrs per month to make the job financially viable.

He was fortunate to be B744 rated when he joined so could leave when he wanted to as better opportunities arose but if you read some of his early posts he would have you believe he had hit the jackpot joining SIA Cargo. Then again he had come from AAI which is understandable. I guess the same applies to those from RBA.

He was fortunate to be B744 rated when he joined so could leave when he wanted to as better opportunities arose but if you read some of his early posts he would have you believe he had hit the jackpot joining SIA Cargo. Then again he had come from AAI which is understandable. I guess the same applies to those from RBA.

MC, when I first arrived at SQC, I was very happy and things were very enjoyable. I rarely positioned at all, when I did it was to HKG and in the 3 years I was there I only positioned in Y once. That was a AMS-SIN flight and it wasn't fun.

However, shortly after Capt Gan left, things took a turn south and seemed to accelerate on a daily basis. When I got there, you could pretty much make a request to scheduling any time, then under the new/current CP, it was once a quarter. The trips got worse and worse, the positioning increased and increased and the satisfaction factor went down and down. Multiple changes to the contract, changes in the homebase ticket. Things like that are just the tip of the iceberg.

When I interviewed, Gan made the statement we could expect to fly 75-80 hours/month. I took that with a very large grain of salt and really didn't believe him that it would ever be like that. For me financially, it worked flying 50-55 hours month. I did that on a fairly consistent basis and never really went over 60 hours and seldom went under 45. However, I know plenty of people who made the decision based on the published figures of S$7000/mo of per diem and flight pay.

You're right I was lucky being current and qualified on the 400. I probably wouldn't have considered it had the opposite been true. I and my family really enjoyed the living part of Singapore, so much so, we've stayed in Singapore. One thing I don't miss is SQC. The sad part is SQC could have been a very nice place to work had the powers to be not been so bent on bowing to the pressure from SQ.

"Take Home" in SIA...???
 

Boeingdream878......I am not in Singapore or part of Singapore so cannot answer many of your questions. However, take a look at www.iras.gov.sg. This is the web site for the Singapore tax office and will help with tax rates.

Tax on S$160,000 approx S$16000
Tax on S$200,000 approx S$23000

ROUGH GUIDE ONLY!

Income Tax
 

The figures quoted above by NM are technically accurate but dont really apply to an expat pilot for 2 reasons:

1. A portion of your salary (out of base allowance) is deemed to be earned outside SIN and is zero rated, and;

2, (Really expat capt only) You can apply for 'Not Ordinarily Resident' status and you are then taxed at a flat rate of 10% on your taxable income (see point 1) for a period of 5 years. Noone knows what will happen once the 5 years are up as it is a fairly new scheme. It is really for capts only as you would pay more tax under the scheme as an F/O. You need a gross salary of about $190k pa to make the scheme attractive.

You can also pay any income tax liability in interest free monthly installments a year in arrears if you wish. Two minor snags with this as follows:

1. By the time your tax bill is calculated there might only be 7 months of the financial year left so the monthly installments (albeit for only 7 months) can be a bit steep.

2. When you leave Singapore you will be presented with a tax bill that must be paid in full prior to leaving. At the moment, profit share would take care of that liability but who knows what the future has in store. If you leave at the end of your contract then the gratuity would cover any outstanding tax bill.

There is usually more to it than it says on the label in Singapore!

Your last (aprox) two - three months of work in Sing will be for the gov - don't plan on taking any of that with you - it will all go for taxes - beware and be prepared :mad:

"Your last (aprox) two - three months of work in Sing will be for the gov - don't plan on taking any of that with you - it will all go for taxes - beware and be prepared :mad:"

So what? That only means that the 9-10 months ahead of these you didn't pay any tax at all. Is that a bad deal?

If you are able to plan your life you can set aside the tax every month and pay it all when you get the final bill.

There are many issues with Singapore and Singapore Airlines but tax is definitely not one of them. I paid about 8 % of my total remuneration last year.

Swish. SGD pegged to USD? Then explain to me how it's gone from 1.60 to 1.38 in a little more than a year?
And if you think that scares you from Singapore, where would you recommend people to go? Sandpit? They have a real "peg" to USD. KAL, JAL etc all pay USD so that's a no no.

Europe? Well, you might have found a tax free way but for most guys with families that would be impossible so the Euro salary would be heavy taxed...

Those last two/three months of tax are in ADDITION to the tax already being deducted monthly for the preceeding year. To be fair, it is not extra tax, just payment in full seeing that tax here is paid in arrears. If you plan to leave for good, the gov will ensure that you don't leave without paying all of your taxes. That's a big bite of cash when you depart. I have no problem with Sing's tax rate - I do find my rent more than doubling in a year a bit hard to swallow

Still looking...
 

Thanks a ton for the info guys.The 8-10% tax bracket sure's a relief...!! But i still dont know what would be the approx take home of a 777 captain doing 70 odd hours a month.....:confused: . Would appreciate help there.....
BD

After tax, rent, utilities, transport - expect around 6 - 8k sing$ - less if you have kids in private schools - now subtract what else you spend as lifestyle, food (can be cheap or expensive - just depends), etc. Don't always count on 70 hrs /mo either - there are vacation days that will be assigned to your roster if you don't bid them and you don't receive flt pay for those - some months will be alot less than 70 hrs, some will be a bit more. Take heed of the advice given earlier - Sing is getting very expensive - you are buying into a lifestyle here as much as anything and it takes alot of money to fund that lifestyle. The bonus is keeping everyone's head well above water for now - let's keep our fingers crossed that it doesn't go down in a big way

boeingdream787

70 hours 777 will give you about 18-20K monthly after tax depending on the destinations.

Bonuses and 13:th month not included.

Right now they are flying 80-90 hours a month so an average of 70 hours a month is very realistic.

B777 Captain: in S$ per month

Basic: $9300
MVC (Monthly Variable Component) : $767
AVC (Annual Variable Component): $767 x 1.15 (paid lumpsum in June for whole year)
Meal Allowances: $2000 (on average, including in-flight & overnight allowances, incl 6 weeks leave, tax-free)
PPA (productivity allowance): $4000 (on average, incl 6 weeks leave)
Transport: $120
Bonus: Between 3 to 6 months of (basic+MVC+AVC)...simplified explanation
13th month "Bonus": 1 month (basic+MVC+AVC)

Income Tax (approx): $2500 (locals), $3500 (expats)

For expats:

Housing: $ 3200 (adjustable, barely, $3100-$3500)
Schooling: $1400 per child for 2 children
Gratuity: $10,000 per year (on completion of contract)
Joining Bonus: Upto $30,000 possible

SI (Service Increment) for every year of service: Approx 3% of basic, incorporated into basic. This year may be more, as inflation has touched 6.6% versus an average of 2-3% over the past 15-20 years.

Expenses:

Housing: $4000-6000 for 3-4 bedder, in reasonable, expat-friendly areas
Car ownership: $1000 (basic japanese sedan) $1500 (basic continental)...(all incl, assuming $70,000 Toyota Altis - $110,000 Opel/Audi, 10 year loan, 10% down)
Taxi: $700 (if no car)
School fees: $2000 per child at any good international school, all incl
Live-in Maid: $650-$800
Groceries: $1000 (family of 4)
Eating out 4 times a month in restaurants: $600
Utilities: $400
Cable TV: $150 (most channels)
Misc: $1000
Others: Your preferences

Flying Patterns: Comfortable mix of long, medium, and short haul.

Typical Patterns, variations abound:

Europe: 5 days, Day 1 report around midnight, Day 2 reach europe early next morning, Day 3 stby for 4 hours, Day 4 dep to arrive Day 5 SIN early next morning. Patterns can stretch to 8 days.

N.America: 7 Days, Day 1 SIN-E Asia, Day 2 E Asia - Day 3 N America, Day 4 stby for 4 hours, Day 5 dep N A - Day 6 E Asia, Day 7 E asia - SIN. Patterns can stretch to 11 days

Australasia: 3 Days, Day 1 report evening, Day 2 arrive oz, Day 3 dep oz in the morning - SIN. Patterns can stretch to 4 days.

Africa: 4 days, Day 1 report after midnight, reach CPT, Day 2 OFF, Day 3 dep CPT, Day 4 arrive SIN early morning.

S Asia: Upto 4 hours, expect turnarounds. Beyond 4 hours, at least 24 hours at dest, extending to 96 hours for some stns depending on frequency. Midnight express much loathed.

SE Asia: Mostly turns, occasional nitestop.

W Asia: Between 3 days and 8 days. Nothing typical. Most tiring is SIN-DXB, 24 hrs, DXB-SIN.

E Asia: Usually 24 hrs at dest.

Crewing:

Double Crew (2 capt, 2 fo) for approx 12:30 and beyond, Augmented (2 capt, 1 fo) approx 11:00-12:30, 3 pilot (1 capt, 2 fo) 7:00-11:00, 2 P approx upto 7:00. Highly simplified of course. Depends on many factors, including acclimatization, time of dep, etc.

Destinations:

Europe:AMS, CPH, MAN, CDG, ATH, DME, IST, FRA, BCN, MXP, ZRH, FCO
N.America: YVR, SFO, LAX, IAH
Australasia: PER, BNE, MEL, SYD, ADL, AKL, CHC
S.Asia: DEL, BOM, MAA, BLR, CCU, DAC, CMB, LAH, KHI, MLE, AMD, ATQ, HYD
SE Asia: BKK, CGK, HAN, SUB, MNL, KUL, PEN, DPS, SGN
E Asia: HKG, TPE, ICN, NRT, FUK, NGO, KIX, PVG, PEK, NKG, CAN
W Asia: DXB, AUH, JED
Africa: CPT, JNB, CAI

S$ is not pegged to US$. MAS (Monetary Authority of Sin) uses exchange rates versus a basket of currencies to manage inflation in Sin. Since most things are imported, S$ can expect to appreciate in the near to medium term.

Rents have probably peaked. Buying an apt is cheaper than renting, in the long term, as mortgage rates average approx 2.5% p.a presently.

New CA (Collective Agreement) being negotiated. Despite posturing on both sides, can expect a 10-15% increase in package when the dust settles (at best), or status quo (at worst).

LOCBLUE Thank you very much for taking the time to enlighten us, it is about the best response I've seen so far in this thread and certainly will help us a great deal in our decisions, Thanks ...The Capt.:ok:

Thanks for all the good information!
 

Yes, Thanks to all that provided any of this valuable information.

Housing allowance:

-Is it possible to use the housing allowance towards a mortgage?

This new CA:

-If you sign up (expat terms) prior to the new CA being signed, do your terms change according to the new CA, or are the terms agreed to with the offer of employment the ones you live with for the duration of your contract?

Your answers to these questions are very much appreciated.

Thanks again,

Chapola

Chapola,

Yes, you can use your housing allowance to service your mortgage.

The new CA will supercede the CA in force when you sign up. All terms are adjusted accordingly, regardless of start date, unless specified otherwise.

Excellent Post-Locblue
 

Locblue-Many thanks for this absolutely amazing and intensely informative post. Prolly one of the best on this thread...:ok:
So basically,as a vary ball park figure,one can expect to make anything between 18-20K a month with an expense platform in the range of 12-13K...?? And then about 10% taxes? I take it that would be a fair assessment..?? Therefore a very approximate savings of about 4-5K SD would be a reasonable guess i figure.Sounds like quite a decent plan.BTW whats this 'joining bonus'..? Some kinda company lure to join up I guess.Taxable? And the 10K gratuity.....is it paid yearly or mebbe at the end of the 5 year term,like u suggested. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY,the 13th month bonus....what exactly is that.Sorry,but a new concept to me...!! And when u said its paid 3-6 months,does that mean you could possibly get 3-6 months of your basic pay as a bonus per annum...???!! Sorry for these rather stupid q's,but like they say,the simplest of q's sound also like the stupidest. Pardon me.....but just trying to understand the logistics.....
Cheers now.......BD.....:p

boeingdream787:
13th month bonus is not a bonus!
If you were paid weekly you would get 52 weeks pay in a year…
If you are paid monthly 12 months at 4 weeks in a month is 48 weeks
So you are short paid by 4 weeks..hence the 13th month or additional 4 weeks pay
Hope that clarifies! “Weakly” yours….:)

Bonus...??!
 

Thx for the clarification cubbie.Which means that one would get a 13th month salary,which essential would constitute one months basic plus change. BESIDES this 13th month salary I assume one gets paid a 3-6 months basic pay(depending on company performance of course) as a bonus...?? Thx in advance for the clarification.....

Reality check
- I have not heard of anyone offered any kind of joining bonus in years
- do not count on that 18 - 20k each month - you have vacation time and they will assign it if you don't attempt to bid it - your pay will go down significantly for that time spent on leave (no flt pay and you must take the time off) - also, turn arounds don't pay the same
- 10 % tax is the best you will do, most pay more
- 13 month pay is just the month's basic pay - not all the extras - nice, but not the 18 - 20k that you envision
- bonus is just that - a bonus - it was roughly 6 months basic pay last year but not nearly that much the previous year so don't count on it to be there every year.
- the gratuity is paid at the completion of the contract (if you complete...:eek:)
- count on $6k+ minimum/mo for rent anywhere - and I guarantee you will not want to rent "anywhere" - things are going toward $8 - 10k month rapidly in the typical expat areas and unless you are fluent in chinese, those are the places you would likely look to live.

It is getting very expensive here - be ready

Singapore is NOT a cheap city. Inflation above 6% mainly due to housing and cost of food. Be sure of your figures before committing to a sizable bond and moving half way around the globe. Be careful.