Fleet Manager Does An Illegal Flight
 

So whats new. This manager has done more to lower the respectability of the 767 fleet than anyone else. Wonder who the FO was and if he knew, silly really, he would have bragged about it.

I cringe with embarrassment at the never ending stream of innuendos that he makes about people. He seems to have no shame.

No wonder SQ cargo retracted their offer of employment, those there will have bent a few ears.

Illegal Flight
 

These figures were passed to me by someone in the abode. Are they accurate?

BI098 DXB to BWN

Scheduled Flight Time = 8.00 hours
Report Time = STD - 1 hour
Rostered Flying Duty Period = 9.00 hours.

Allowed Duty Period = 9hours 45 minutes.
Max Possible Discretion = 3 hours

Flight Delayed by 6 hours and 40 minutes after the crew had reported for duty and no rest facilities at airport or airplane. Crew still operated the flight.

Actual Duty Period 15 hours and 40 minutes.

Max Allowed Duty Period including 3 hours discretion = 12 hours 45 minutes.

Didnt the DFM publish an FON recently stating that discretion was not to be taken lightly and that only in cases of life threatening emergency could it be extended by more than 3 hours.

Interesting.

For Shatftedwit,14U,Bananasbananas,thin albert,tune me in all one person, maybe two people both ex quality managment RBA, give it up.

No one cares, stay in Singapore. Find something to complain about there.

They won't want you in the training department either.

Wtf?
 

Check your PMs mate.

RBK AOG in the hangar again today. Cant blame that on TA or TMI or BB.

So, is the story true or not?

Fleet Manager's Illegal Flight
 

Jury still out on this one but Ill will be having a good sniff around soon as im back.

No comment TDS, other forums are full of slagging matches and i dont want to play. News is news, and on this forum its topdraw stuff.

Im sick of being cc'd 10X every time he sends me mail. There are plenty of good honest folk to do the job, and the sooner he's replaced the better.

You see Shafted.....
 

Shafted,

It looks like there is more than one flight operated illeaglly then you see.
I was referring to the X-Mas debacle ex Dubai when , you see, someone operated the disrupted service to Heathrow after having already done a full standby duty, you see.Bigger issue was the lovely lady(?) in long term rostering telling halal porkies to crew enquiring about the legality of it all.
Big halal porkies! Frankfurt sausage size actually, very powerful.
You see, when people start telling halal porkies, you see, its very bad, actually! ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE IN CAHOOTS WITH THE BLOODY MANAGEMENT.You see........

How Times Change
 

Many years ago I saved RBA a big bill and much embarrassment by re-positioning the flight from BHX to LHR after an early morning diversion there. My paper work was wrong - done immediately after landing at LHR (big mistake) - and when it was corrected by the then small brained Fleet Manager, he sent an express bollocking to me, received just as I was pushing back at LHR for the return flight. My paper work showed I had entered discretion by 1 hour 50 minutes. In fact I had actually been 3 hours into discretion. Now that is legal but my manager criticised me for NEARLY bringing the Airline into disrepute! This was my only little error in 10 years with the airline and you all know the thanks I got. A regular pay cheque!
What else is there? A knighthood? I've got a packet of those but I'm too old to use them.:O

Fleet Managers Illegal Flight
 

Several pilots have confirmed that the manager did do his SBY and then operated the flight. And no he was not resting or got rest as he was trying to get others to do the flight

So I guess will never get the guys "real" roster as Short term are tight lipped on this one.

was having beer with one capatin who left there last year.
he tells story about sim recurent where FO go 50 miles from takeoff place and still be 4000' below mora...then overrun landing....then crash on engine failure excercise...then do again but with help from check pilot...then get B+ and now he go command course
I very glad I stay here not go work there...it must be not a good place i think.

Todays Rumour
 

The rumour for today is that there will be 2 senior appointments announced in Flight Ops shortly. Both will be external and come from UK. One is ex RBA, the other is ex Chief Pilot of a BA subsidiary.

Are they coming to plug gaps or to replace non performers?

Replacing The Non Performers
 

Ex Cheif Pilot form GB Airways, nice chap.

The Ex RBA was a Fleet Manager and went to Easy, I am told was very capable.

Um, don't we need one more?

WillRBA Ever Improve?
 

Or has it sunk to it true worth for all eternity.

Is anyone planning on staying any longer than they have to at RBA now days.
Gone are the days people went to RBA and thought, Ill just stay a few years, then retire at RBA many years later.

The rosters have not improved, and probably never will. Crews are still operating permanently tired, and even fatigued. I notice on another thread here about a USA based carrier requiring 3 crew if the flight time is over 8 hours. RBA crews operate 8 h 50 min flights Bwn – Dxb, Bwn-Shj on a daily basis. Arrive at the hotel 2-4am, then that night operate on to Europe.
On return to Bwn, 2 days off then off again.
Bwn-Dxb-position to Fra, 19 hours from sign on in Bwn to arrival at the hotel in Fra. the next day 12 hour flight Fra-Bkk then position Bwn, 17.5 hours, 2 days off, then away again. They obviously have not read the best practices section of the Flight Duty Time Limitations, or have chosen to ignore them.
You cannot expect airlines of the caliber of RBA not to operate to these standards, perhaps more accountability should be targeted at the authorities to allow airlines to operate to these standards.
RBAs passengers must fell very comforted in the fact their lives are in the hands of such hard working yet undermined crews.
This is made worse by certain selfish individuals taking the trips with days off away, leaving the line pilots to do more of the tiring trips.

The pilots are controlled by the Rostering Woman. Unbelievable rosters, or roster changes are given, paxing duties after a duty, minimum rest then operate again, flights changed to go well into discretion, some were even manipulated to appear not to go into discretion, when in all reality 80% did. Yet when the Captain questions the changes, or says he will not go into Captains discretion, he receives a telephone call from the Rostering Woman saying he can do it, because she says he can, or ‘Its company policy for you to do it’. Or the DFO has told you to do it. Disregard the heavy rosters you have been doing for the last few months, years, Captains discretion is just RBAs standard and expected extension to the FTLs, and you can expect grief and harassment if you do not.

The pilots get no back up from Flight ops, in fact they’re in behind the Rostering Woman. Amazing to see an airline where the Captains authority is superseded by everyone, including the Rostering Woman.

Fatigue of its crews has been ignored by flight ops for years now. The attitude of ‘If you don’t like it f@#k off’ still continues. Even 6 month captains are saying ‘I just want to get out’. This is fine with management, they can be replaced by new keen guys eager to get their first jet job.

Are RBA seriously looking for long term stability of its pilots, how can it when pay increments were chopped several years ago. Expect to be on first years Captains pay for the rest of your career with RBA.

Company ops manuals are now only issued on a 50 cent Cd. If you want a manual you must print it and pay for it yourself. What a sad airline indeed.

Standby days are continually roster in the middle of days of to mess up any chance of organizing time away, if your called out on the standby, you are expected to go, working on your day off the next day. Don’t make plans on your rostered days off, they’re meaningless.

Generally I've heard the majority are very unhappy and are just waiting for their opportunity to get out. There are a couple that seem happy and have shot down anyone complaining here on PPrune, but they are few, and their usernames are well known to everyone, including management. I see promotions in the future. Perhaps time at home with their families is not a priority for them.

Castor says it all
 

Way back some post said they were cowboys and I now see the light. Even worse. Its going to hit the fan big time.

It's interesting to see the evolution of the RBA pilot over the last decade.

In the early 1990s I saw a new First Officer re define the company uniform tie. Instead of wearing the company issure tie around his neck, he started wearing a Shoestring Tie (think Colonel Sanders KFC) with a big cowboy belt buckle, until the DFO had words with him.
I have recently seen that very same First Officer (not an F.O. now) berate a Captain coming off a long haul for having his hair over his collar.
One might argue this is jealousy, or perhaps he was just re acquainting the Captain with the Ops Manual regs.

I have read in this thread on PPrune of many pilots complaining about being bludgeoned into flying in excess of their Ops Manual limits.

Yet I have also seen recently a Line Captain (definately NOT one of the 'Favoured Few') who has been here longer than me, be given a roster change - he was having his only long Sydney in 6 months taken away for 'Training'.
He just turned around and said flatly
"No. I am not accepting this. Training can fly to somewhere else in Australia that day."
Rostering just said "O.K." and the Captain kept his Sydney.

This badgering of pilots to fly either too long or too much has been happening for the last 6 or 7 years I guess. In that time the 'Old Timers' who knew the Ops Manual and were prepared to stand up and say things like

"I consider that what you are trying to roster me to fly is in breach of Flight Duty Limitations. I will only do this flight if you Fax (not e mail) me an instruction to do it complete with an assurance that it is fully in compliance with Flight Time Duty Limitations. The fax must have your fully legible name and signature on it. I will then pass it to the C.A.A."

Have given way to new guys who are too new in the left seat, or too uncertain of the regs to make such a stance.

By making a statement like the one above, you give the clear message that

1. You know it's wrong
2. They know it's wrong
3. You will report it
4. They will have to take reponsibility for it.

My point is this. Too many people whinge with valid reason, BUT because they don't know, aren't sure, can't be bothered checking the Ops Manual Flt Time Duty Limits, they won't stand up and say "No. That's wrong".

Guys (and soon, Ladies), you are Captains, Senior First Officers and First Officers.
You are trained to know your aircraft.
You are trained to recognise if something is going wrong on your aircraft.
You are also trained to do something about it.

That's your job.
Your life depends on it (oh, and the lives of the back seaters as well)

Perhaps
You should know your Ops Manual
You should know if something with respect to the Ops Manual is wrong
You should do something about it

How many times in the CRM courses have you been told that
"all it needed was one person to stop and challenge the situation and the accident would never have happened."

Perhaps you should study the Ops Manual and even CAP 371
and if you see something wrong challenge it in writing - not just over a beer in Limbang / Dubai / Bangkok / Frankfurt / ...

I am on the Airbus now, so I don't suffer jet lag like you guys do anymore.
But I sat in the seats you occupy for 10 years and do know where you are coming from.
I have also sat in the seat in the Fleet Managers Office in front of several DFMs and FMs. I have sat in front of 'The Rostering Woman' the C.P. and the DFO at different occasions over the last too many years.
And I have argued my case many times and made it clear that I know the Ops Manual chapter 7 and recognise Management B.S. and won't give it the time of day.
As a general rule, the people I have sat opposite have "tried it on" but haven't tried to push an unwinnable position.
And despite numerous threats of sacking, contracts not being renewed etc,
I'm still here, because at the moment, I want to be here.

Stand up and be counted
Or
Sit down. shut up, and get on with it.

Cheers

Wings does have a point.

Someone far more savvy than I opines that a country gets the government it deserves.

Does the same apply to RBA Flight Ops and its managers?:ouch:

Wings may have a point but it does not excuse Flight Ops management abusing their positions just because they think they can get away with it.

Lets not kid ourselves. The abuse has always been here. In the good old days it didnt matter so much as there were still plenty of good trips to go around and Foxy was smart enough to realise that. Does anyone remember the family holiday roster to AUH? 7 days away for a quick AUH JED AUH shuttle. There was also a fair amount of OFF days or SBY days and the opportunity to be with your family and recover from the jetlag. Remember, the 767 used to do short/long haul mix which also improved the quality of life.

The lifestyle changes caused by the new type of 767 operation have not been considered at all by management who have held on to all of their old perks and passed on all the new crap to a few line crews.

By the time management and training have cherry picked all the good trips there is only the knackering, multi time zone change trips left. And because they are really unpopular trips, you can only have 2-3 days OFF in the abode before repeating the trip or something just as bad. All this so that the self appointed chosen few can have a long SYD and a long AKL every month.

Wake up. Its not going to change. In fact, as more and more of the experienced and decent guys leave, the less chance there is of an inexperienced captain making a stand. Management know this and are using it. Do you think they give a toss if your health or marriage falls apart?

Wings last paragraph is very true. Its not easy but it really is time to piss or get off the pot.

"Illegal Activity Release" Forms Available Soon
 

DCA approval is awaited for these forms due to be released Monday next.

These limited edition forms are to be used as INDEMNITY AGAINST PROSECUTION and therefore boost the wellbeing of the offending crew.

Captains are to fill them in with limited (skimpy) details of the Illegal Activity that they are asked (often) to carry out, then fax them to MCC for immediate "Rubber Stamp" approval.
This procedure can be eliminated for a small fee of $2.50, whereupon rubber stamps will be supplied direct to the Captain involved.

Due to the popular demand expected, there will be a limit of 5 forms per Roster Period only
However, should this be too limiting, e-mail applications to the "Rostering Lady" with a suitable guarantee of a box of Swiss or Belgium chocolates will result in unlimited forms being available.

Good Luck

Castor K, Form not acceptable to Rostering unless wrapped in a copy of the latest 'HELLO' magazine!

Wings, i agree with your sentiments, but feel that you must have an extensive hold on the hierarchy to have somehow survived this long. Congratulations, [if that's the word!] or is your court case imminent as well? Any news on the last one, by the way.

On another matter, a misguided friend who has flown RBA extensively [well, they are usually the cheapest], has accrued quite a few frequent flier points with them, but has not discovered anyway of being able to redeem them!! Sounds like a typical Brune trick doesn't it. Any suggestions gratefully received.

Rosters In The Old Days
 

Well said Wings, indeed I have used the "well just fax through the instructions" a few times and they soon back down. But they dont forget, so be warned to use it wisely.

As for rosters and Foxs day. A roster Lady other than "Hello" told me that as soon as a Royals charter came up, F & C would appear out the woodwork and soon blocked any others. A nice little pension top up.

Of course there was always the proviso that you had to do so many base checks before you could be considered, which went in the bin as soon as the Fox Cub came on line.

Dispite all that, they were happy days. Illegal flights would not have been entertained, and dear Alan B would make sure that the Ops manual was up to date.

Happy days Indeed
 

Sadly those days are gone. At least the people flying the line know that.

Someone really should tell the managers and trainers who still think they can write their own rosters.

There is no fat in the system to support their self indulgence anymore and that is why the 767 fleet is struggling for experience and numbers. I was at the RBYC not too long ago and heard a conversation in which a 767 DFM cum trainer stated that he didnt care what happened to anyone else. He had been in RBA long enough to "wield some clout" and now it was "payback time."

If you ever wonder why the 767 fleet cant get leave approved for the school holidays, thats one of the reasons.

Life is slowly catching up with these dinosaurs but not before they have caused irrecoverable damage to Flight Ops. The back pages of Flight are starting to look good again. Leave the dinosaurs to it and go and do what many experienced and capable RBA pilots have done in the last year or so - go get a proper job. :mad: